oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

Boggles

topper75 wrote: »

The average Irish worker won't vote for them, as evidenced by the recent electoral fall of the Labour party.

Da Fuq?

The electoral fall of the Labour Party was because of direct provision and asylum seekers?

:pac::pac::pac:

ToBeFrank123

walshb wrote: »

It's a classic case of NIMBY. Not surprising,. NIMBY is a natural human type vibe.

Find me one place or group of people in this country, rural or urban, who are not NIMBYs. Everyone is, whether its rural villagers or people living in D4 or Killiney. You only have to look at the habitual planning protests to new buildings in Dublin.

The way to get around nimbyism is to share the load and make sure everyone is bought into it, so that one group don't feel they are suffering more than others.

More DPCs in cities would make a huge difference. Everything should be proportional. The proposed centre in Oughterard is not proportional to the locality.

alastair

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Find me one place or group of people in this country, rural or urban, who are not NIMBYs. Everyone is, whether its rural villagers or people living in D4 or Killiney. You only have to look at the habitual planning protests to new buildings in Dublin.

The way to get around nimbyism is to share the load and make sure everyone is bought into it, so that one group don't feel they are suffering more than others.

More DPCs in cities would make a huge difference. Everything should be proportional. The proposed centre in Oughterard is not proportional to the locality.

I’m going to call bull**** on that. NIMBYism is never actually concerned about what’s happening elsewhere. No amount of redistribution elsewhere is going to appease complaints in Galway. The only real valid issues are if the location’s infrastructure and services support the numbers proposed.

Ruraldweller56

alastair wrote: »

Only if they seek citizenship. The numbers of asylum seekers who become citizens is tiny compared to the overall numbers. The ‘idea’ is a crock.

You've accounted for their offspring too and have figures to back this up?

Presumably then they go back to their homeplaces (or just leave here) after a relatively short period?

CelticSeaShip

handlemaster wrote: »

Just look back ten years ago.

Are you referring to the recession where many people lost their jobs and many people emigrated to places like Australia, Canada?


Can you please name one direct provision centre set up in Canada or Australia to house the Irish people going there?

alastair

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

You've accounted for their offspring too and have figures to back this up?

Presumably then they go back to their homeplaces (or just leave here) after a relatively short period?

Soo... it’s a long game - which politician is it that’s benefitting from this ‘your children will possibly vote for me’ scam? ��

If they have residency here, they’re entitled to stay as long as they like. I welcome them.

Ruraldweller56

alastair wrote: »

Soo... it’s a long game - which politician is it that’s benefitting from this ‘your children will possibly vote for me’ scam? ��

If they have residency here, they’re entitled to stay as long as they like. I welcome them.

'which politician is it that’s benefitting from this' as if to say one single solitary politician is masterminding all this. More disingenuous rubbish.

'If they have residency here, they’re entitled to stay as long as they like.' - exactly the point being made.

'I welcome them' - Good for you.

Now can you answer the questions asked?

alastair

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

'which politician is it that’s benefitting from this' as if to say one single solitary politician is masterminding all this. More disingenuous rubbish.

'If they have residency here, they’re entitled to stay as long as they like.' - exactly the point being made.

'I welcome them' - Good for you.

Now can you answer the questions asked?

The rubbish is pretending that the small percentage of a small percentage that might one day become naturalized and vote, and vote for your party, is a game plan that any politician or party would pursue. It’s a complete nonsense.

Wise up.

walshb

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Find me one place or group of people in this country, rural or urban, who are not NIMBYs. Everyone is, whether its rural villagers or people living in D4 or Killiney. You only have to look at the habitual planning protests to new buildings in Dublin.

.

Exactly. You are cementing my view/point....it's a natural feeling to have for many.

topper75

Boggles wrote: »

Da Fuq?

The electoral fall of the Labour Party was because of direct provision and asylum seekers?

:pac::pac::pac:

You made a bit of a jump there with your 'because'.
If you need a because, their vote collapsed because the Irish worker did not feel their interests were represented by them, which is of course ironic.
The left are a shambles in Ireland electorally, but they very much control the media agenda. Bringing in a large amount of foreigners is not in the interests of the Irish worker, but it represents a key initiative for the left in Ireland today. Can you square that for us?

ToBeFrank123

walshb wrote: »

Exactly. You are cementing my view/point....it's a natural feeling to have for many.

Absolutely. Here's a good example.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dr-criticises-ministers-huge-nimbyism-over-blocking-methadone-clinic-in-her-constituency-940941.html

Ruraldweller56

alastair wrote: »

The rubbish is pretending that the small percentage of a small percentage that might one day become naturalized and vote, and vote for your party, is a game plan that any politician or party would pursue. It’s a complete nonsense.

Wise up.

Small percentage of a small percentage? Do you have numbers or don't you? Twice now you've been asked for figures to back up your claims and all you've done is gone off on some typical liberal rant about you welcome them and how the rest of us are wrong. 'wise up'. Is that the best you can do? Honestly.

Boggles

topper75 wrote: »

You made a bit of a jump there with your 'because'.

No I think I nailed it, blaming Labours demise at the polls on DP and asylum is just daft in the extreme, DP and asylum has been around a long time, including when they did there best at the polls.

The Labour voted collapsed because they went into coalition with FG and rolled back on nearly all there promises.

It can be linked back to that tragic Tesco Flyer thing.

It zero, absolutely zero to do with Asylum.

AllForIt

walshb wrote: »

It's a classic case of NIMBY. Not surprising,. NIMBY is a natural human type vibe.

The people who don't want them in their back yard are the politicians and lefties who advocate they come here.

alastair

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Small percentage of a small percentage? Do you have numbers or don't you? Twice now you've been asked for figures to back up your claims and all you've done is gone off on some typical liberal rant about you welcome them and how the rest of us are wrong. 'wise up'. Is that the best you can do? Honestly.

Sure. Let’s spell it out.
3673 asylum claims last year.
30% successful - so 1100 people
22% approx are kids - so 860 adults.
Of those 860 adults only some will seek naturalization, and will be located in unknown constituencies. There’s also a significant delay before that possibility arises - since DP doesn’t count for reckonable residence, and you need at least five years residence before an application can be made.

So the strategic value of asylum seekers as potential voters is pretty much zero.

So; wise up.

weldoninhio

Boggles wrote: »

No I think I nailed it, blaming Labours demise at the polls on DP and asylum is just daft in the extreme, DP and asylum has been around a long time, including when they did there best at the polls.

The Labour voted collapsed because they went into coalition with FG and rolled back on nearly all there promises.

It can be linked back to that tragic Tesco Flyer thing.

It zero, absolutely zero to do with Asylum.

But, no one blamed Labours demise in the polls on DP. Not on this thread anyway. I'd suggest going back and re-reading what was said.

Morpheus

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Ireland as a country is no place for hundreds of migrants, take a ride over to Balbriggan and see how well that community is faring

I live in Balbriggan and have done since I was born, the Direct provision centre that I assume YOU are talking of, is in the old holiday camp Mosney, which is actually in Meath and actually 13km from the town. In fact, Drogheda, a larger town, is actually 11km from the Direct Provision centre in question. These people do not live in Balbriggan as they have not been granted status to live or work outside the centre.

The migrants that ARE in the town are migrants who have been granted status to work and live in Ireland, they are made up of many ethnicities, from UK, USA, Eastern europe, Russia, central Europe, Africa, South America, India, Pakistan, China, Cork, etc.

The town demographic was destroyed long before many of these "Johnny Foreigner" people as you and others like to call them, came to it. Our wonderful population, watered down and diluted... mostly by people from inner city Dublin and , shock horror, even such far flung war torn places as South Dublin.

To be honest, the only problems the town faces are the same social ones faced by other towns, the exception is rapid growth of our population which has , until recently been outstripping local govt's ability to respond to it, that and horrific planning by dodgy house builders in the earlier naughties.

Basically our lad, welcome to the town, help us make it great again, lets not go building walls (unless its around Cork) and eh.... whats your point?

weldoninhio

Morpheus wrote: »

I live in Balbriggan and have done since I was born, the Direct provision centre that I assume YOU are talking of, is in the old holiday camp Mosney, which is actually in Meath and actually 13km from the town. In fact, Drogheda, a larger town, is actually 11km from the Direct Provision centre in question. These people do not live in Balbriggan as they have not been granted status to live or work outside the centre.

The migrants that ARE in the town are migrants who have been granted status to work and live in Ireland, they are made up of many ethnicities, from UK, USA, Eastern europe, Russia, central Europe, Africa, South America, India, Pakistan, China, Cork, etc.

The town demographic was destroyed long before many of these "Johnny Foreigner" people as you and others like to call them, came to it. Our wonderful population, watered down and diluted... mostly by people from inner city Dublin and , shock horror, even such far flung war torn places as South Dublin.

To be honest, the only problems the town faces are the same social ones faced by other towns, the exception is rapid growth of our population which has , until recently been outstripping local govt's ability to respond to it, that and horrific planning by dodgy house builders in the earlier naughties.

Basically our lad, welcome to the town, help us make it great again, lets not go building walls (unless its around Cork) and eh.... whats your point?

He was talking about the town of Balbriggan, not Mosnia.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/gang-travelling-to-cause-mayhem-37520245.html

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/balbriggan-protest-over-youth-gangs-36377335.html

Boggles

weldoninhio wrote: »

But, no one blamed Labours demise in the polls on DP. Not on this thread anyway. I'd suggest going back and re-reading what was said.

I suggest you heed your own advice lad.

Ruraldweller56

alastair wrote: »

Sure. Let’s spell it out.
3673 asylum claims last year.
30% successful - so 1100 people
22% approx are kids - so 860 adults.
Of those 860 adults only some will seek naturalization, and will be located in unknown constituencies. There’s also a significant delay before that possibility arises - since DP doesn’t count for reckonable residence, and you need at least five years residence before an application can be made.

So the strategic value of asylum seekers as potential voters is pretty much zero.

So; wise up.

And do tell us what happens to the unsuccessful applicants?

weldoninhio

Boggles wrote: »

I suggest you heed your own advice lad.

I've no need. I completely understand what he was saying. :rolleyes:

weldoninhio

alastair wrote: »

Sure. Let’s spell it out.
3673 asylum claims last year.
30% successful - so 1100 people
22% approx are kids - so 860 adults.
Of those 860 adults only some will seek naturalization, and will be located in unknown constituencies. There’s also a significant delay before that possibility arises - since DP doesn’t count for reckonable residence, and you need at least five years residence before an application can be made.

So the strategic value of asylum seekers as potential voters is pretty much zero.

So; wise up.

And family reunification?

alastair

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

And do tell us what happens to the unsuccessful applicants?

They leave the state or are deported.

Morpheus

weldoninhio wrote: »

He was talking about the town of Balbriggan, not Mosnia.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/gang-travelling-to-cause-mayhem-37520245.html

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/balbriggan-protest-over-youth-gangs-36377335.html

First link was a bout gangs travelling on train line to fight other gangs or "raid" towns etc... tbh, im old enough to remember gangs travelling to and from Balbriggan and Skerries to fight each other in 80s. so. whats new?
dont believe me, ask any local about the balbriggan gang called "Bronx" and the skerries gang, "Mourne View Freedom Fighters"
sounds stupid now, but was very real back then. The THEN council estates (you know where they are) were no place for kids to go either.

Second link was not about ethnicity as some newspapers tried to paint it, there were members from all across the spectrum at it and the issue was related to the above and to other incidents happening with gangs of teens causing problems. Lack of community policing due to cutbacks in both justice investment and in local policing numbers were a massive issue leading to some of he anti social behavior in the town. Population growth without the corresponding increase in Garda numbers. Many local Councillors and politicians attended too.

alastair

weldoninhio wrote: »

And family reunification?

What of it?

Bullocks

Boggles wrote: »

Seems like some of the locals are "terrorizing" a family that is connected to the man who use own the hotel.

Poor form if that is true and hopefully they are arrested and charged.

Really ? Have you a link for that ?

weldoninhio

Morpheus wrote: »

First link was a bout gangs travelling on train line to fight other gangs or "raid" towns etc... tbh, im old enough to remember gangs travelling to and from Balbriggan and Skerries to fight each other in 80s. so. whats new?
dont believe me, ask any local about the balbriggan gang called "Bronx" and the skerries gang, "Mourne View Freedom Fighters"
sounds stupid now, but was very real back then. The THEN council estates (you know where they are) were no place for kids to go either.

Second link was not about ethnicity as some newspapers tried to paint it, there were members from all across the spectrum at it and the issue was related to the above and to other incidents happening with gangs of teens causing problems. Lack of community policing due to cutbacks in both justice investment and in local policing numbers were a massive issue leading to some of he anti social behavior in the town. Population growth without the corresponding increase in Garda numbers. Many local Councillors and politicians attended too.

Hmm, stabbings are new. Telling pregnant women that you are going to cut the baby out of their stomach is new. Attacking innocent children is new.

I'm from North County Dublin, from a council estate. I'm not from Skerries or Balbriggan, but never had any issues hanging around or drinking in Mourne View, the humps, the green sheds, the ballast pit or Bobs in Skerries. I'm in my late 30s now so it wasn't today or yesterday I was hanging around them either.

Ruraldweller56

alastair wrote: »

They leave the state or are deported.

And you honestly believe that.

'wise up'.

Morpheus

weldoninhio wrote: »

Hmm, stabbings are new. Telling pregnant women that you are going to cut the baby out of their stomach is new. Attacking innocent children is new.

I'm from North County Dublin, from a council estate. I'm not from Skerries or Balbriggan, but never had any issues hanging around or drinking in Mourne View, the humps, the green sheds, the ballast pit or Bobs in Skerries. I'm in my late 30s now so it wasn't today or yesterday I was hanging around them either.

Stabbings in the town are not new, the hotel originally had a nightclub - there were numerous bottle attacks on people outside it long before the population was as big as it is, if you are that age, you know what ive said was real, im about 10 years older so maybe it ended before you can recall but it was real. nothing wrong with council estate man, im talking about what it was like.

What is new is the massive publicity negative incidents get compared to before social media - the loudest voice is usually the most negative. There are social issues, i completely agree - but to put all of the issues facing my home town, at the feet of migrants is a joke at best.

Geuze

Is there any way AS claims could be dealt with in airports / ports, within 7 days, so we could then end direct provision?