oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

alastair · 19-09-2019 3:02pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Not the same as a DPC. Not on the same scale. Not the same over-whelming numbers at once putting pressure on limited services. Not even close.

Which DPC has ‘overwhelmed’ any locality? If you’re going to level accusations of NIMBYism, you’d want to get your facts straight. There are plenty of asylum seekers in my locale, have been for years. Meanwhile you are ACTUALLY engaged in NIMBYism yourself. Simple projection.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-09-2019 3:02pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

It's likely that the two posters you mentioned have DPCs in their locale. I've one near me in Galway and I'd welcome another. I'm of the opinion that the numbers we take in are far below what we could cope with. Long term it'll also be an enormous boost for our economy.

As arguments go this is by far the weakest. They earn 21 euro a week. Even if they spent all that locally, it would be well below what the average tourist would spend if it was actually a hotel.

alastair · 19-09-2019 3:04pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Dont be bringing what Irish people did or didnt get it into the argument, i disagree with any refugees or immigrants getting prioritised over the citizens of the country the landed in.

Thats a politicians argument, same as the line they roll out everytime they are asked about immigration, "oh but the irish emigrated blah blah blah"

Its literally their go to argument every single time and it doesnt wash with the people.

Well, it does actually, given there’s no electoral support for the immigration control platform candidates, time after time.

Seathrun66 · 19-09-2019 3:04pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Dont be bringing what Irish people did or didnt get it into the argument, i disagree with any refugees or immigrants getting prioritised over the citizens of the country the landed in.

Thats a politicians argument, same as the line they roll out everytime they are asked about immigration, "oh but the irish emigrated blah blah blah"

Its literally their go to argument every single time and it doesnt wash with the people.

To ignore our history of being immigrants is incongruous and inconsistent.

Off now, will reply later.

The_Kew_Tour · 19-09-2019 3:06pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Long term it'll also be an enormous boost for our economy.

Lol. Ya to them

Seathrun66 · 19-09-2019 3:09pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

As arguments go this is by far the weakest. They earn 21 euro a week. Even if they spent all that locally, it would be well below what the average tourist would spend if it was actually a hotel.

The phrase 'long-term' is the key. When asylum seekers commence work they contribute to our economy. Simple stuff.

WB Yokes · 19-09-2019 3:15pm

alastair wrote: »

Well, it does actually, given there’s no electoral support for the immigration control platform candidates, time after time.

Im for immigration controls and even i didnt vote for those people. Its very early days in this country regarding immigration. Dont think we will be any different than other European countries, when it gets too much people will react like they did elsewhere. And Oughterard will embolden people.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-09-2019 3:21pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

The phrase 'long-term' is the key. When asylum seekers commence work they contribute to our economy. Simple stuff.

You are beginning to sound like Angela Merkel and her plan to bring millions of migrants to Germany.

There is a limit to what we can cope with.

We have seen the types of issues starting to build in most western European countries because of too much migration.

By all means help migrants from warzones but only a number that is sustainable.

weldoninhio · 19-09-2019 3:26pm

Seathrun66 wrote: »

The phrase 'long-term' is the key. When asylum seekers commence work they contribute to our economy. Simple stuff.

Why would asylum seeker be here long term?? When did seeking asylum mean an unlimited visa? No war lasts forever.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-09-2019 3:28pm

alastair wrote: »

Hotels, B&B’s, houses, apartments.

What percentage of the population of Dublin north inner city are they?

There are only a few hundred asylum seekers in Dublin according to stats I've seen.

WB Yokes · 19-09-2019 3:30pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why would asylum seeker be here long term?? When did seeking asylum mean an unlimited visa? No war lasts forever.

I think its safe to say there is no intention of ever sending them back.

Geuze · 19-09-2019 3:32pm

Boggles wrote: »

Like I said Welfare State me hole, it's a myth largely spread by bitter simpletons to make them feel better about themselves.

Nearly half the population are on welfare.

If that isn't a welfare state, what is?

Boggles · 19-09-2019 4:11pm

Geuze wrote: »

Nearly half the population are on welfare.

If that isn't a welfare state, what is?

Yeah, that doesn't matter. We are 13th in terms of spend, we ain't no welfare state. We have social protection but it is largely inadequate for a modern European country.

Also a "Welfare State" is not a bad thing. It is a very very good thing.

But the simpletons who use it as a negative aren't intelligent enough to grasp that nuance of it.

Boggles · 19-09-2019 4:13pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You and Boggles are just coming across like all the other hypocrites and NIMBYs.

Sorry, how exactly have I been hypocritical?

ToBeFrank123 · 19-09-2019 4:21pm

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry, how exactly have I been hypocritical?

Other than telling others to suck it up when it comes to DPCs in their locality, you appear to have offered little real help to migrants coming into this country.

800 families volunteered at the height of the migrant crisis in 2015. I take it you weren't one of them!

Cordell · 19-09-2019 4:24pm

Boggles wrote: »

We have social protection but it is largely inadequate for a modern European country.

It's definitely inadequate, I fully agree here - that is, it's way too generous.

Boggles · 19-09-2019 4:27pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Other than telling others to suck it up when it comes to DPCs in their locality, you appear to have offered little real help to migrants coming into this country.

800 families volunteered at the height of the migrant crisis in 2015. I take it you weren't one of them!

You must be confusing me with someone lad. Not the first you have made false accusations today about me.

I told no one to suck it up nor am I obliged personally to help any migrant that comes into this country. It is pretty mental you would even suggest such a thing.

I pay my taxes and the elected government of the day chooses how to spend them.

You know functioning democracy and all that.

I imagine an apology will be forth coming for yet another scurrilous claim, you are not having a good day lad.

Boggles · 19-09-2019 4:29pm

Cordell wrote: »

It's definitely inadequate, I fully agree here - that is, it's way too generous.

Good lad, the facts would heavily suggest you are wrong though.

Unless you would like to publish some information to counter?

WB Yokes · 19-09-2019 4:36pm

Boggles wrote: »

Good lad, the facts would heavily suggest you are wrong though.

Unless you would like to publish some information to counter?

Throw up the facts there and lets have a gander. My only problem with the welfare as it is, is the small gap between people earning minimum wage and those on the dole. I dont blame people for not working when they get 200 quid handed to them every week, and probably rent allowance and a medical card on top of that.

Most long term dole heads would only have a hope of a minimum wage job. Makes no sense for them to work.

alastair · 19-09-2019 4:39pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why would asylum seeker be here long term?? When did seeking asylum mean an unlimited visa? No war lasts forever.

Once again - a war is not a prerequisite for claiming asylum. Successful asylum seekers may well remain here permanently. They are entitled to.

Boggles · 19-09-2019 4:39pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Throw up the facts there and lets have a gander. My problem is the small gap between people earning minimum wage and those on the dole. I dont blame people for not working when they get 200 quid handed to them every week.

In a Welfare State if you were to become unemployed you would get far more than 200 quid.

You'd get a high percentage of your previous pay, you would also get numerous supports, including proper training and help to get back onto the workforce.

It is a remarkable thing when done properly.

WB Yokes · 19-09-2019 4:41pm

Boggles wrote: »

In a Welfare State if you were to become unemployed you would get far more that 200 quid.

You'd get a high percentage of your previous pay, you would also get numerous supports, including proper training and help to get back onto the workforce.

It is a remarkable thing when done properly.

Im not saying we are a welfare state at all. I was just saying thats the problem i have with the way things are currently. I would agree with cordell in that i think welfare is too much. It needs to be cut and the minimum wage needs to rise.

2ndcoming · 19-09-2019 4:43pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Throw up the facts there and lets have a gander. My only problem with the welfare as it is, is the small gap between people earning minimum wage and those on the dole. I dont blame people for not working when they get 200 quid handed to them every week, and probably rent allowance and a medical card on top of that.

Most long term dole heads would only have a hope of a minimum wage job. Makes no sense for them to work.

So the solution is to cut the dole to a completely unliveable amount to allow exploitative employers continue to underpay their most vulnerable staff members.

Delightfully devilish. Who else can we cull in this race to the bottom?

Boggles · 19-09-2019 4:45pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Im not saying we are a welfare state at all. I was just saying thats the problem i have with the way things are currently. I would agree with cordell in that i think welfare is too much. It needs to be cut and the minimum wage needs to rise.

A Welfare State is not just about money, it's about investing in proper services so people aren't left to fester on the dole with all the complications that come down the line with that.

A simple solution would be instead of taking away money, increase thresholds to how much you can earn and still access social protections.

Cordell · 19-09-2019 4:50pm

This time I fully agree, simply cutting the dole is not the viable solution. And I don't have a solution meself

But the point that it's too generous still stands.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-09-2019 4:51pm

The average worker salary in Albania is $350 per month.

https://checkinprice.com/average-minimum-salary-in-albania/

Someone on the dole in Ireland with other benefits can easily earn over €1000 a month for doing nothing.

By any stretch we are a welfare state. Our dole is almost 3 times the average monthly salary of Albania.

Boggles · 19-09-2019 4:57pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The average worker salary in Albania is $350 per month.

https://checkinprice.com/average-minimum-salary-in-albania/

Someone on the dole in Ireland with other benefits can easily earn over €1000 a month for doing nothing.

By any stretch we are a welfare state. Our dole is almost 3 times the average monthly salary of Albania.

Firstly why do you think all Albanians want to come here and draw the dole, did it not occur to you they may want to come here and work.

What information are you reading that all Albanians are feckless? It's a bizarre default mindset.

The vast vast majority of irregular or undocumented migrants in this country work, 90 odd percent.

Also what is the cost of living in Albanian compared to Ireland which is up and around the highest Europe.

That is an important factor, you do understand that right?

ToBeFrank123 · 19-09-2019 5:13pm

Boggles wrote: »

Firstly why do you think all Albanians want to come here and draw the dole, did it not occur to you they may want to come here and work.

What information are you reading that all Albanians are feckless? It's a bizarre default mindset.

The vast vast majority of irregular or undocumented migrants in this country work, 90 odd percent.

Also what is the cost of living in Albanian compared to Ireland which is up and around the highest Europe.

That is an important factor, you do understand that right?

They are welcome to come and work if they have a valid visa, have a job lined up, accommodation lined up, etc - much the same as happens with countries like Australia and US.

The problem is they don't do that. The rejected asylum stats back that up.

And you are condoning undocumented migrants working? That's great. Undermining Irish working standards and wages with effectively slave labour.

Boggles · 19-09-2019 5:21pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

They are welcome to come and work if they have a valid visa

It's not that easy.

But again why do you think all Albanians are feckless?

You must have some evidence to back up such an assertion.

Or is it just unfounded prejudice?

ToBeFrank123 · 19-09-2019 5:24pm

Boggles wrote: »

It's not that easy.

But again why do you think all Albanians are feckless?

At this stage, I'm convinced you are on one long wind up.

Its irrelevant if they are feckless or not. If they work, they are working illegally.

oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

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