oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

Boggles

Gatling wrote: »

But the schools get extra resources and financial grants of course they love it .

Feck everyone else .

Surely if the children are thriving in a small community everyone else is happy.

If the school grows and remains most importantly open, the knock on effect for the community is only positive.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Surely if the children are thriving in a small community everyone else is happy.

If the school grows and remains most importantly open, the knock on effect for the community is only positive.

The school has an enrolment of 460, so no danger of closing.

https://www.education.ie/en/find-a-school/School-Detail/?roll=20199O

Wibbs

eagle eye wrote: »

Oughterard doesn't have any school spaces available, no police station(you can hit a buzzer and be put through to Galway Garda station), there is no footpath out to the proposed dpc either. Just a few problems, I'm sure there are many others.

No matter, they'll be ignored, as they were in Lisdoonvarna.

From the Irish Times article posted above:

"As in Oughterard, locals learned about the plan through rumour and word of mouth. When a vote was taken at a public meeting in the town in February 2018, on whether the people would accept a reception centre, the result was 197 against and 15 in favour. But the hotel subsequently opened to women and children seeking asylum". They neglected to report that both the local authorities and hotelier in Lisdoonvarna publicly stated that they wouldn't go against the townspeople's vote.

Before the vote, Mr White said he would abide by the locals’ decision: “If the village is not able to accommodate 115 people, so be it. I’m not going to do something to hurt this town.”

But it was a fait accompli as it turned out regardless of the local democratic vote of nay.

Responding, the RIA said the Department for Justice had agreed a year-long contract with the hotelier which “should not put an undue strain on existing resources and services” in the village.

Oh and that year long contract gave a handy 1.24 million euro to the same Mr White of Lisdoonvarna. Nice work if you can get it. Oh and on that topic the payouts are worth a look:

Much attention was also given to the arrival of a group of Syrian refugees at the Abbeyfield Hotel at Ballaghaderreen in Co Roscommon, and the figures show that the owner of the hotel, Next Week & Co, received payments of €3.16 million in 2018.

Along with Mosney Holidays , one other business received payments of more than €7 million last year. Alan Hyde’s Barlow Group received fees of €7.5 million for accommodating asylum seekers in Cork and Waterford.

Millstreet Equestrian Services – which provides accommodation for more than 500 asylum seekers in Cork and Waterford – received payments of €6.53 million. Between 2000 and 2018, the company received a total of €82.5 million in fees from the State.

Aramark’s Campbell Catering last year received €5.89 million for operating State-owned direct provision centres at in Co Clare, Co Cork and Co Meath where over 825 asylum seekers are accommodated.
Ballyhaunis centre

Bridgestock caters for about 500 asylum seekers in Ballyhaunis, Co Mayo, and Sligo town. The €5.8 million it received last year brings to €97 million the firm has received in payments between 2000 and 2018.

Fazyard, which operates the largest direct provision centre in the capital, Clondalkin Towers Hotel, last year received €5.5 million.

East Coast Catering, which accommodates about 600 asylum seekers in Dublin and Louth, last year received €4.4 million.

Maplestar, which accommodates 200 asylum seekers at the Eglington hotel at Salthill, Galway, received €3 million in payments.

That's a lot of millions. Over 200 million euro of a lot. With that kinda cash up for grabs is it any wonder local concerns are handily brushed under the oul carpet?

Note too in the earlier quoted article how vague the reports are and the school principles are not available for comment, but "people" say the kids have had a wonderful impact. The only other locals mentioned are the elderly Christy and Peggy and the latter states that they weren't listened to and it went ahead anyway and that it caused division, but overall it's nothing to see here.

NB all the above are Irish Times links too as this outlet is apparently "acceptable" and unlikely to be "putinist".

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

Surely if the children are thriving in a small community everyone else is happy.

If the school grows and remains most importantly open, the knock on effect for the community is only positive.

Maybe you missed these parts in the article you posted:

"The only thing you’d say is there is very little provision made for them, very little facilities for play for children.”

"There are droves of the children, but they’re all right."

"several refer to how small Lisdoonvarna is and how little it has for the children, especially during school holidays"

"Droves" of kids with few facilities for them. That's fine when they're young, not so fine when they hit their teens and beyond. Damned near every single report on youth crime in disadvantaged areas anywhere features lack of facilities and outlets for kids and adolescents as a major contributing factor for social problems in such areas. Put this in a small town with a small population? Yeah I can see that staying "positive". One does wonder do some never read a social history book.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe you missed these parts in the article you posted:

"The only thing you’d say is there is very little provision made for them, very little facilities for play for children.”

"There are droves of the children, but they’re all right."

Did you miss the part where I said?

Not ideal, there are negatives, but in the majority positives.

Wibbs wrote: »

"Droves" of kids with few facilities for them. That's fine when they're young, not so fine when they hit their teens and beyond.

There is teens there and "beyond".

I don't really see your problem TBH. The people of Lisdoonvarna seem to be having an overwhelming positive experience as is the locality.

Surely that is good news though.

The constant unfounded fear mongering must be fúcking exhausting.

Bullocks

WB Yokes wrote: »

Bullocks wrote: »

I went past the old hotel an hour ago. There was a good sized crowd of protestors considering its a miserable wet Tuesday morning. By the looks of things they are going nowhere.
Still no builders back to work on it and the entrance is blocked with stone

Did they have yellow vests on

The most of them had but they were a mixture or purples, yellow, orange and pink , I suppose its safer wear them on that stretch of a busy road.
I just passed there on the way home again and noticed they have a small catering trailer keeping themselves fed and big site lights for night aswell

Seathrun66

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You addressed a point that was not on my point in the first place. We leave it at that as its clear you cant answer points in question without going off on one

You talked about someone potentially going to Eyre Sq at 3am and potentially getting beat up by this mythical gang. I explained (not for the first time) that the incident with the three school age lads and the 23-year old happened at lunchtime (1.30pm). Therefore, he's unlikely to meet any of them as they'll be safely tucked up. He could instead hang out with English stag parties outside the Skeff.

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

I don't really see your problem TBH. The people of Lisdoonvarna seem to be having an overwhelming positive experience as is the locality.

I'm impressed that you can glean the "overwhelming positive experience" from the people, only two of whom are interviewed, a pensioner and a near pensioner and the latter directly stated that this did cause division. The school principles declined to be interviewed and the manager of the centre itself "does not want to be named". Yeah that all seems peachy indeed. Can't imagine such reticence if it was a brand spanking new hotel for tourists that just opened.

But hey you seem perfectly fine with completely ignoring any local and voted majority opposition to such centres. You seem fine with imposition from above with no consultation. You seem fine with private vested interests making hundreds of millions of taxpayer's euro from this refugee crisis. So I can see why with your mindset you might see "overwhelming positives".

PS how do you know the age profiles of the kids there? Links please.

Seathrun66

Boggles wrote: »

Did you miss the part where I said?





There is teens there and "beyond".

I don't really see your problem TBH. The people of Lisdoonvarna seem to be having an overwhelming positive experience as is the locality.

Surely that is good news though.

The constant unfounded fear mongering must be fúcking exhausting.

Still, there's an upside. It distracts from having to look at your own life.

Gatling

Boggles wrote: »

If the school grows and remains most importantly open,

Grows with more asylum seekers ,

While some will cheer hurrah - others will quickly see schools where Irish kids become minority and parents seeking schools with less foreign kids, which something regularly discussed among parents at schools,
Some of the schools here in tallaght have classes where the majority of the kids African ,it's not Revitalising schools or towns were creating ghettoes and nothing more ,

They have done nothing for this country they certainly haven't improve it , actually it's makes us look like fecking ejits falling for the same story over and I'm poor from Africa and Pakistan I've fled for my life now where is my benefits and council house oh you don't mind if I fly home to Pakistan or Africa regularly you the place I fled for a holiday

Seathrun66

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm impressed that you can glean the "overwhelming positive experience" from the people, only two of whom are interviewed, a pensioner and a near pensioner and the latter directly stated that this did cause division. The school principles declined to be interviewed and the manager of the centre itself "does not want to be named". Yeah that all seems peachy indeed. Can't imagine such reticence if it was a brand spanking new hotel for tourists that just opened.

But hey you seem perfectly fine with completely ignoring any local and voted majority opposition to such centres. You seem fine with imposition from above with no consultation. You seem fine with private vested interests making hundreds of millions of taxpayer's euro from this refugee crisis. So I can see why with your mindset you might see "overwhelming positives".

PS how do you know the age profiles of the kids there? Links please.

Principals won't ever agree to be interviewed for anything even mildly political.
Ditto for centre managers given the feral rabidness of some of those opposed to refugees.

Clutching at straws if that's the best you can do to oppose an overwhelmingly positive article.

Wibbs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Still, there's an upside. It distracts from having to look at your own life.

Do you guys have a debate handbook you share? You seem to. When you face a knotty debate point your goto response is sniping. Though at least your childishly petty grammar nazism is consistent.

Wibbs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Clutching at straws if that's the best you can do to oppose an overwhelmingly positive article.

It's quite incredible that you can get "overwhelmingly positive" from an article that is at best quietly neutral on the matter and short on details and voices from the town.

Seathrun66

Gatling wrote: »

Grows with more asylum seekers ,

While some will cheer hurrah - others will quickly see schools where Irish kids become minority and parents seeking schools with less foreign kids, which something regularly discussed among parents at schools,
Some of the schools here in tallaght have classes where the majority of the kids African ,it's not Revitalising schools or towns were creating ghettoes and nothing more ,

They have done nothing for this country they certainly haven't improve it , actually it's make look like fecking ejits falling for the same story over and I'm poor from Africa and Pakistan I've fled for my life now where is my benefits and council house oh you don't mind if I fly home to Pakistan or Africa regularly you the place I fled for a holiday

Not heard of this in any Galway City schools, the city with the largest percentage of non-Irish in the country.

And examples of such schools in Tallaght please? With figures regarding racial breakdown. Or you just making it up?

Still waters

Boggles wrote: »

I don't really see your problem TBH. The people of Lisdoonvarna seem to be having an overwhelming positive experience as is the locality.
.

That's not what I'm seeing to be honest, the guards are regularly called to the Thomond due to fighting drinking and reports of attempted sex for sale to a local punter, couple that with some women who are residents of the centre being barred/ejected from a few of pubs around the town during the festival for stealing or attempting to steal wallets or money, the trick was bring a guy out dancing and steal his wallet or cash out of his pocket, they're not as welcome as the media make out, the people of lisdoonvarna are tolerant of them but they are getting sick to the back teeth of some of them and wouldnt be missed if they all left tomorrow

Seathrun66

Wibbs wrote: »

Do you guys have a debate handbook you share? You seem to. When you face a knotty debate point your goto response is sniping. Though at least your childishly petty grammar nazism is consistent.

Effective when pointing out the literacy deficiencies of those condescending towards the educational standards of citizens of nations they know next to nothing about.

And keep deflecting from the points I raised you're clearly unable to answer.

Seathrun66

Wibbs wrote: »

It's quite incredible that you can get "overwhelmingly positive" from an article that is at best quietly neutral on the matter and short on details and voices from the town.

How about this then - Fear Turns to Friendship:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/fear-turns-to-friendship-as-lisdoonvarna-welcomes-asylum-seekers-1.3587878

Seathrun66

Still waters wrote: »

That's not what I'm seeing to be honest, the guards are regularly called to the Thomond due to fighting drinking and reports of attempted sex for sale to a local punter, couple that with some women who are residents of the centre being barred/ejected from a few of pubs around the town during the festival for stealing or attempting to steal wallets or money, the trick was bring a guy out dancing and steal his wallet or cash out of his pocket, they're not as welcome as the media make out, the people of lisdoonvarna are tolerant of them but they are getting sick to the back teeth of some of them and wouldnt be missed if they all left tomorrow

You obviously have crime reports to back up the accusations?

And here again is the first article that came up in my search for crime in Lisdoonvarna. Not quite as you portray it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/fear-turns-to-friendship-as-lisdoonvarna-welcomes-asylum-seekers-1.3587878

Boggles

Still waters wrote: »

That's not what I'm seeing to be honest, the guards are regularly called to the Thomond due to fighting drinking and reports of attempted sex for sale to a local punter, couple that with some women who are residents of the centre being barred/ejected from a few of pubs around the town during the festival for stealing or attempting to steal wallets or money, the trick was bring a guy out dancing and steal his wallet or cash out of his pocket, they're not as welcome as the media make out, the people of lisdoonvarna are tolerant of them but they are getting sick to the back teeth of some of them and wouldnt be missed if they all left tomorrow

The guards are regularly called for that.

Who is the local punter? Sounds like some horny pest.

:pac:

Still waters wrote: »

the people of lisdoonvarna are tolerant of them but they are getting sick to the back teeth of some of them and wouldnt be missed if they all left tomorrow

“They are very active in the community and are very well-liked,” said Elsha Daly, the daughter of Willie Daly, Lisdoonvarna’s official matchmaker. “People here have become very accepting of different cultures.” Other residents - business owners, taxi drivers, old people - echoed the sentiment.

Ms Daly disagrees.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

It's quite incredible that you can get "overwhelmingly positive" from an article that is at best quietly neutral on the matter and short on details and voices from the town.

Sorry Wibbs, personal local testimony is all I could find, no wiki links I'm afraid.

Seathrun66

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry Wibbs, personal local testimony is all I could find, no wiki links I'm afraid.

Am loving the irony of referring to Wiki as a supposed trusted source. A site that University students and journalists are barred from using owing to its lack of credibility. Do these guys not get how Wiki works?

Wibbs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Effective when pointing out the literacy deficiencies of those condescending towards the educational standards of citizens of nations they know next to nothing about.

Please point out where I have been condescending towards same. I have said that the contention that doctors and engineers are streaming across the sea and land routes into the EU is decidedly unlikely, not when such qualified people can and indeed do come here quite legally through normal channels.

And it's hardly effective as you think it, as it tends more to reveal a prissy pettiness in your tactics along with the other snippy little responses that come to the fore when you've clearly nothing left in the tank. It's the debate equivalent of "you smell!!" and best left for the playground really. Oh and it may have escaped your notice that the same tactics that are common among you and your chums, are oddly enough uncommon among those on the other side of this debate.

And keep deflecting from the points I raised you're clearly unable to answer.

I have answered your "points" repeatedly, you either deflect off to another "point" and/or refuse to acknowledge those answers and instead you rinse and repeat your consistent childishisness in your answers.

BumperD

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Not heard of this in any Galway City schools, the city with the largest percentage of non-Irish in the country.

And examples of such schools in Tallaght please? With figures regarding racial breakdown. Or you just making it up?

Presentation Primary school Newcastle

St Patrick’s likewise.

Both city schools

Boggles

Still waters wrote: »

That's not what I'm seeing to be honest

Still waters wrote: »

Do guards keep stats on call outs ? I could ask the local guard when i see him again...its him that was telling me about it

Jaysus, 10 minutes ago you were seeing it, now it turns out you are been told about it at poker.

Wibbs

Still waters wrote: »

On the i.t. link, as my old boss used say "paper never refused ink "

And pixels won't refuse keystrokes. While maybe better suited to another thread for another day, that's a very real problem with "news" these days. There is an increasing polarity in the media, online and off, politics and public discourse in general. More taking sides and digging in of heels. On the one hand you'll have some screaming of(or for) blood in the streets, on the other it's nothing to see here, it's all peachy. And with more polarity the genuine news sources tend towards hints. Understandable as the blood on the streets types will tend to foam at anything more. QV the gangs that target rural folks in burglaries. The Irish media will use the term "travelling gangs" instead of stating what is usually the obvious. As usual there are three sides to a story, yours, theirs and the truth. The latter a mixture of both to some degree.

On multiculturalism I prefer to look at overall statistics and results over decades in other nations that have lived with it and through it, both from the "local" and "newcomer" side. While there are positives for some, there are a helluva lot of negatives for more. Not least for the newcomers who inevitably coalesce down near the bottom of their new home, a fact backed up by hard facts and statistics across every modern multicultural society. A new national narrative comes into play too, not always for the better and I fear with this latest European influx, of both actual and economic refugees and just plain chancers I can't see that improving any time soon.

On the refugees themselves? I'd happily take double the number we're taking of Syrian families. Of those coming across the Med from Africa in boats, nope. I'd send them back until such times as it stops being profitable for their traffickers. Just like Australia did and the numbers and drownings dropped off a cliff overnight. Now luckily we've plugged the hole that existed in the "boom" where waters broke on Rosslare ferry piers to a large extent and now Albanians and Nigerians and the like are getting short shrift and being sent packing. Hopefully.

Boggles

Still waters wrote: »

Im SEEING the bigger picture

Good save.

Still waters wrote: »

being portrayed to me from different sources i know from the locality, plus from what i see doing the door on a local pub for te festival

But sure if you are "doing the door" you wouldn't have to rely on 2nd or 3rd hand testimony.

You'd be at the hub of it.

4068ac1elhodqr

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Effective when pointing out the literacy deficiencies of those condescending towards the educational standards of citizens of nations they know next to nothing about.

Also a very convinient form of easy deflection.

One thing we do certainly do know, is that Syria didn't even appear greatly in any recent applications for international protection, yet the term 'war-torn' is throw about freely, by those who forget to check the simple facts.

To assume that educational standards are based on spelling alone, is naive at best. Also to assume folks in DP centres are masters of crosswords or fans of Shakespeare, again stretching the imagination slightly. Fans of gansta rap, perhaps.
Assuming those (again, rarely from Syria) in recent times - who leap out of trucks, show up at airports and camp out in Calais would be 'above average' educationally, is being creative to say the least. Simply unproven speculaiton. You are correct however, in that they are folks we generally know 'nothing about'.

You may well have some vested interest, or get paid a small fortune playing speak n' spell with them, but the power of positive thinking also has it's limitations.
Even Boris, will have a door wide open for anyone who can meet the new points requirements (for satisfactory spelling, and so on).

Take a quick look at the UK's NOS, only the Chinese and Indians earn a better p/hr wage than the natives. One group (Pakistan) is 2nd from bottom of the pile, but did feature Ireland's IPO top4 last year. So expect only great things, using just the power of positve thinking?

Boggles

Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »

Even Boris, will have a door wide open for anyone who can meet the new points requirements?

Boris will have fúck all, I'll be shocked if he is even an MP in a few months.

Sand

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually chances are high people of this politic would indeed claim to be OK with this, well so long as the numbers involved were not of Irish ethnicity. For their diversity fetish hit. Like that eejit of a Dublin city manager type that was on RTE a few months back reporting that the north inner city now had a minority of ethnic Irish living there and this was a great thing. There's a sniff of self loathing of their own ethnicity among some of them. You know the types that seem to drool over the idea that one day all the people's of earth will be brown people.

Its a wonderful display of cognitive dissonance that demographic change is either dismissed as a conspiracy theory (as in that Irish Times article) or celebrated as being wonderful, often by the same media.

As a separate point, I think the reason why people can so often talk past each other on these threads is some people (I include myself here) approach migration policy from the perspective of what is best for Irish people? Or Europeans more generally if we're talking about the wider phenomena of mass migration over the past 40-50 years. So we gather evidence of what the outcomes are for indigenous people, how its been a negative outcome elsewhere in Europe. We think this will persuade posters with opposing views because we presume they are Irish too and concerned with the best outcomes for us all.

Whereas other people - such as Boggle, Sean and Alastair - are clearly not concerned with what is best for Irish/European people. There is an entirely different value set at play. And so they will never be persuaded or bothered by evidence which demonstrates negative outcomes for the indigenous people, certainly not the Irish. That's irrelevant to them. Whatever is their priority is for them to explain I suppose, but its clearly not what is best for the indigenous people.

Spanish Eyes

Regarding these Asylum seekers, I have a question or two maybe....

What to they bring to, and what to they take from their hosts?

Don't go all philosophical on me now, just asking.

And before I get shouted at, I know they only have 39 quid a week or whatever + 30 quid for each child. That could be more than someone has left having worked their asses off after paying for food, rent, utilities, transport, taxes, LPT, doctor, medicines, etc.

Think about it.