oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

Gatling

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Where you located your .

Wrong again

Not located in tallaght


So what have tallaght and kebabs got to do with your false claims /lies .

Roger Hassenforder

alastair wrote: »

Depends on whether Charlie Flanagan opted to revoke the deportation or not. If he didn’t they’re gone.

One of those is two days ago.
It was a parliamentary question on behalf of a constituent. Even if Charlie said no (to their appeal which is ongoing) , you're saying they're gone. They've removed themselves in the day and a half....since

Catch yourself on.
Toot toot.

Roger Hassenforder

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Where you located your dinosaurs while on the hunt for your mythical underground asylum seekers.

As a rebuff - poor.
As humour- awful
As a point- dull

In essence, nonsense.

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

One of those is two days ago.
It was a parliamentary question on behalf of a constituent. Even if Charlie said no (to their appeal which is ongoing) , you're saying they're gone. They've removed themselves in the day and a half....since

Catch yourself on.
Toot toot.

Now you’re just being silly.

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

As a rebuff - poor.
As humour- awful
As a point- dull

In essence, nonsense.

I liked it.

Roger Hassenforder

alastair wrote: »

Now you’re just being silly.

How so?

SchrodingersCat

There is a lot of fake and misintreperation of deportation statistics going on here, so I will post up the official government figures from the Irish Times:

"9,197 deportation orders have been made since 2011 while only one in five of those who received these orders – 1,857 people – have been deported from Ireland. Some 5,504 people facing deportation have been granted permission to remain following a re-examination of their case since 2011. Another 2,245 returned home voluntarily."

Although true, It is unfair to make the statement that "only one in five who receive deportation orders get deported" without giving the number who stayed after appeals or who returned home voluntarily: An uninformed reader will assume that the remainder just stayed illegally in Ireland regardless. By definition, these who won their appeal shouldnt have received the deportation order in the first place.

alastair

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

There is a lot of fake and misintreperation of deportation statistics going on here, so I will post up the official government figures from the Irish Times:

"9,197 deportation orders have been made since 2011 while only one in five of those who received these orders – 1,857 people – have been deported from Ireland. Some 5,504 people facing deportation have been granted permission to remain following a re-examination of their case since 2011. Another 2,245 returned home voluntarily."

Although true, It is unfair to make the statement that "only one in five who receive deportation orders get deported" without giving the number who stayed after appeals or who returned home voluntarily: An uninformed reader will assume that the remainder just stayed in Ireland regardless. By definition, these who won their appeal shouldnt have received the deportation order in the first place.

There’s a few uninformed readers about the place alright.

handlemaster

Looking at this thread the irish are very inward looking. There's a very big world out there a new comers might help the IQ level

Happyilylost

SchrodingersCat wrote:

"9,197 deportation orders have been made since 2011 while only one in five of those who received these orders – 1,857 people – have been deported from Ireland. Some 5,504 people facing deportation have been granted permission to remain following a re-examination of their case since 2011. Another 2,245 returned home voluntarily."

Any idea why these figures don't match up?

jackboy

handlemaster wrote: »

Looking at this thread the irish are very inward looking. There's a very big world out there a new comers might help the IQ level

Are you Irish?

alastair

Happyilylost wrote: »

Any idea why these figures don't match up?

Might be to do with the rolling start to the figures. Some deportations taking place past the 2011 starting point, but on orders served before the starting date?

Roger Hassenforder

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

There is a lot of fake and misintreperation of deportation statistics going on here, so I will post up the official government figures from the Irish Times:

"9,197 deportation orders have been made since 2011 while only one in five of those who received these orders – 1,857 people – have been deported from Ireland. Some 5,504 people facing deportation have been granted permission to remain following a re-examination of their case since 2011. Another 2,245 returned home voluntarily."

Although true, It is unfair to make the statement that "only one in five who receive deportation orders get deported" without giving the number who stayed after appeals or who returned home voluntarily: An uninformed reader will assume that the remainder just stayed in Ireland regardless. By definition, these who won their appeal shouldnt have received the deportation order in the first place.

The reasonable person understands:

A- A number have left "voluntarily" after being unsuccessful in their application for assylum.
B- A number have left "voluntarily" before their deportation order was enforced.
C- A number of orders have had to be "enforced"
D- A number remain at various stage of appeal against their deportation order.
E- And a small number remain keeping a low profile.


A reasonable person understands A B C D to be true. Even if you believe E to be false, the fact is a number remain in Ireland with deportation orders against them. Its very simple.

We're not concerning ourselves with A. We know C. But we have no idea of either, or the sum of B and/or D (until their appeal is listed), and E could be any natural number. But we're left with the inescapable fact, a number remain.

Happyilylost

alastair wrote:

Might be to do with the rolling start to the figures. Some deportations taking place past the 2011 starting point, but on orders served before the starting date?

Fair enough. Seems weird to have such accurate numbers but then they don't add up.

alastair

Happyilylost wrote: »

Fair enough. Seems weird to have such accurate numbers but then they don't add up.

Just a suggestion. It may not be that at all.

Roger Hassenforder

Happyilylost wrote: »

Any idea why these figures don't match up?

The 5k includes people who were applying for assylum but case not deternined, or at appeal and a deportation order not made, and those who actually had an order against them.

Anyone able to stick in a Venn?

Roger Hassenforder

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

How so?

Still waiting...

Or has the penny dropped and you now realise there actualy are people with an order against them still in the state...

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

But we're left with the inescapable fact, a number remain.

Eminently escapable, primarily because it’s not a fact. There’s absolutely no evidence to support the notion.

Roger Hassenforder

alastair wrote: »

Eminently escapable, primarily because it’s not a fact. There’s absolutely no evidence to support the notion.

Which part is false?

Is D false?

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The 5k includes people who were applying for assylum but case not deternined, or at appeal and a deportation order not made, and those who actually had an order against them.

The article makes clear that the numbers are all those who had deportation orders made against them. What muddies the issue up is that the appeal process was streamlined in 2015, removing the possibility of a deportation order being followed by a subsequent appeal for subsidiary protection, which doesn’t happen any more. Deportation orders are now only issued at the end of a parallel decision-making process. The only route left post deportation order is a ministerial appeal.

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Which part is false?

Is D false?

The only appeal available is a ministerial revocation appeal, so yeah, it’s inaccurate.

Roger Hassenforder

alastair wrote: »

The only appeal available is a ministerial revocation appeal, so yeah, it’s inaccurate.

Oooo...The sand is shifting.... "inaccurate"...

Yes or No.
There are no people in the state appealing their deportation.

Roger Hassenforder

alastair wrote: »

The article makes clear that the numbers are all those who had deportation orders made against them. .

Read it again.
Its why the numbers dont add

Gatling

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Read it again.
Its why the numbers dont add

Could we simplify the question .

But Even a yes and no question seemed to be overly complicated

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Oooo...The sand is shifting.... "inaccurate"...

Yes or No.
There are no people in the state appealing their deportation.

No shifting at all.

D is inaccurate - there’s only a single appeal mechanism remaining
E is false

Everyone in D is still within the DP system, and accountable for.

There are no post deportation asylum seekers gone underground around the country.

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Read it again.
Its why the numbers dont add

I’ve read and understood it - unlike you.

Gatling

alastair wrote: »

There are no post deportation asylum seekers gone underground around the country.

But you can't provide any proof of this .

But if crows aren't seen in one part of the country they are still in other parts .

Roger Hassenforder

alastair wrote: »

No shifting at all.

D is inaccurate - there’s only a single appeal mechanism remaining
E is false

Everyone in D is still within the DP system, and accountable for.

There are no post deportation asylum seekers gone underground around the country.

Love it, "inaccurate".
Its binary. Its right or wrong.

You're not only after moving the goalposts, you've taken them down, sold them on ebay, dug up the pitch, and opened a multi storey car park.

You can twist and turn, phrase it however you like. As its clear you're trying to do with your "inaccurate"

If an order is made for your deportation, you can appeal it. (Call it what you like).

There are many doing it. Court reports are full of them. There are many in the country appealing their deportation (im even ignoring those gone to ground, if there any). You've admitted it.

Therefore there are people in the state who have an order for deportation against them, contrary to what you've claimed.

QED, winner winner chicken dinner etc.

alastair

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Love it, "inaccurate".
Its binary. Its right or wrong.

You're not only after moving the goalposts, you've taken them down, sold them on ebay, dug up the pitch, and opened a multi storey car park.

You can twist and turn, phrase it however you like. As its clear you're trying to do with your "inaccurate"

If an order is made for your deportation, you can appeal it. (Call it what you like).

There are many doing it. Court reports are full of them. There are many in the country appealing their deportation (im even ignoring those gone to ground, if there any). You've admitted it.

Therefore there are people in the state who have an order for deportation against them, contrary to what you've claimed.

QED, winner winner chicken dinner etc.

Fine - it’s wrong.

The reports in the paper are not about asylum seekers appealing deportation in the courts. That would be illegal migrants appealing their deportation.

Wibbling wonder

Limerick HQ wrote: »

I'd have more respect for the people of
oughterard, if they just came out and admitted that they don't want Muslims and blacks in their town, instead of this wishy washy nonsense about having only 1 overworked GP, incidentally one never hears people from that part of the country being concerned about their one GP'S workload when the mass influx of Irish teens come in the summer going to the gaelthtacht

You obviously haven't spoken to a GP from this part of the country. They go spare each summer as the expectations of them grown exponentially and there are barely enough to go around as it is.