Simon Harris. Buzz Killington

Outlaw Pete

The public gets the politicians they deserve at the end of the day.

People were happy enough to buy into this man's bull**** when he was clearly lying and pandering, just because it was what they wanted to hear at the time. No amount of pointing out how disingenuous he was being would suffice, people didn't want to hear it, he was doing what they wanted him to do and that was all that mattered. Nevermind that he was lying, he wasn't walking on them, twas the other people, and so was grand. Well now he's more indiscriminate about who he walks on.

Sciprio

The Satanist wrote: »

I remember the circle jerking done when they managed to get a pint of Guinness into Barack Obama. It's not so much the actions of politicians that annoys the **** out of me, It's the sheer hypocrisy. They would sell their mothers to get a selfie with Donald Trump and a pint of Guinness.

That's always bugged me as well. Complain about Irelands drinking culture and yet anyone that's famous gets a pint of Guinness shoved in their face. Hypocrites!

Annasopra

elperello wrote: »

Maybe.
However, it's not the purchase of drink that causes health problems it's how it is consumed.
This law penalise's people who drink sensibly as well as abusers and does nothing at all to address problem drinking in pubs or clubs.

Huh? There's no problem drinking in homes?

Annasopra

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In driving people to drugs.

Scotland alcohol consumption has declined but their drug related deaths have increased at a huge rate since the price increase.

Is there evidence of links?

The Late Late Show

It is time Simon Harris (who himself drinks) abandons this nonsense. It seems to originate from a doctor who is a member of a Catholic splinter cult and passing off nonsense due to his faith rather than his profession (by the way, Catholics don't ban alcohol. Neither did Muslims (early Muslims had communion like ceremonies with wine even) until someone got the idea they did and became leader of Saudi Arabia. So this doctor could be part of the newfound Wahhabi style Catholics) as medical science. Cynically, the pub brigade join forces with this doctor to work against a common enemy: cheap alcohol in Tesco, etc.

People should meet with Harris is his constituency and lobby him to drop this nonsense. At the moment, I an coincidentally reading and enjoying The Testaments. That and its famous predecessor The Handmaid's Tale show us flashbacks of how oppression comes about in piecemeal. Misogyny, racism and sectarianism were the motives in these books but here a focus on health extremism and it being passed off as normal science is the preferred fascism. That and insurance industry left hike their premiums.

“​Now I'm awake to the world. I was asleep before. That's how we let it happen. When they slaughtered Congress, we didn't wake up. When they blamed terrorists and suspended the constitution, we didn't wake up then, either. Nothing changes instantaneously. In a gradually heating bathtub, you'd be boiled to death before you knew it.”

― Margaret Atwood

Remember that, before Harris gives us our health-based Gilead. There is a drive to make pubs and offlicences owned by pubs the only sellers of alcohol and dear prices. Like Gilead had nothing to do with religion and all to do with male white power, Harris' agenda is all about pubs and tax.

This is the cult by the way:

The Pioneer Total Abstinence Association of the Sacred Heart.

Sounds very Gilead/Handmaid's Tale/Testaments to me. Blessed be the fruit, may the lord open. Blessed be the fruit of the vine, I say.

Doctor Jimbob

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Huh? There's no problem drinking in homes?

I think the point is that this only tackles problem drinking in homes.

completedit

The very fact people take issue with a picture of Obama with a Guiness shows how odd this countries attitude to alcohol is. It's just a drink, it's just alcohol but we have made it to be this taboo thing that yet somehow is ubiquitous in our culture. This creates a forbidden fruit effect and results in the binge drinking culture

lawred2

elperello wrote: »

Maybe.
However, it's not the purchase of drink that causes health problems it's how it is consumed.
This law penalise's people who drink sensibly as well as abusers and does nothing at all to address problem drinking in pubs or clubs.

How can you separate consumption of alcohol from where alcohol is purchased in bulk?

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In driving people to drugs.

And this is the single biggest issue I can see with this. The sheer amount of illegal, yet widely available drugs circulating at the moment is bewilderingly high.

People will immediately turn to drugs, especially if they'd already dabbled in the past. The issues that plagued Limerick, and are currently in Drogheda, will spread everywhere, once the demand starts going through the roof.

And our Garda service have shown time and time again how incompetent they are in dealing with basic policing matters, never mind full on drug feuds.


On top of that, the only people being hit by this, are those who can't afford to go to the pubs (conveniently, pubs are left out of these measures). My dad would drink, easily, 12 cans a day of Guinness. He's retired and although he's not an 'alcoholic' in the stereotype way (ie; not abusive, a scrounger etc.) you can be damn sure all this will do is leave less money in his pocket for food as there is no way will he just stop drinking. He'll just drink less, and eat less (of course I'd be there to step in as I see him daily, and can help out, but there are many, many, more just like him who live alone and a price increase will simply lead them to having less money for heating and eating).


It also annoys me, personally. I drink maybe two or three times a year, and rarely at home, but it bugs me that on one hand the meat farmer lads are protesting and the mere mention of a floor on pricing has the CCPC stepping in saying that it's illegal to have minimum pricing. Yet, for some reason this is going on at the exact same time and no one seems to care.


Aswell as; What happens to the budget beer brands? What happens when 'Steve's Orchard' is suddenly the same price as 'Orchard Thieves'? What happens the people making the lower priced alcohol when suddenly they can't compete anymore? Close the company down?


If HiNeckInn and Heineken are the same price on the shelf, it won't be long before no one can compete and Heineken are the only alcohol of it's type on the shelf, and no one in future will bother trying to compete because Heineken are already established and have a monopoly on the market, and you can't undercut them to try to gain market share.


As someone who doesn't really drink, and isn't immediately affected by it, it's a whole big pile of shite and will have massive negative implications which seem to be getting ignored.

punisher5112

Isn't it amazing that these changes don't affect those rich entitled folk.....


Earning high €10s of thousands and more..... They couldn't give a flute.

Kermit.de.frog

completedit wrote: »

It's just a drink, it's just alcohol

Do you not find it demeaning and insulting that when VIPs visit they have to be photographed with a pint of guinness in their hand?

I take it it is not the visitor's fault - it's our tourism body that oversees this.

We need to challenge our image as a nation of alcos. It does us no favors.

Maybe some don't take issue with it but as an Irish person I think it plays in to an ugly stereotype about the Irish abroad.

There is more to this country and the people in it than alcohol.

A lot of people on here for example will laugh at the portrayal on the Simpsons or Family Guy of Ireland.

I don't find that stuff so funny. I think it's a shame that that is how we are viewed around the world and we deserve it - that's how we market ourselves.

elperello

lawred2 wrote: »

How can you separate consumption of alcohol from where alcohol is purchased in bulk?

When you see someone in the supermarket buying a case of beer or a bottle of spirits they are not necessarily going home to drink the lot in one go. Lots of us like to have a drink or two at home when we feel like it and prefer to purchase at a reasonable price. Others may be buying for a family barbecue or get together. A case or bottle may be consumed but spread over a number of people.

That's not to deny that here are problem drinkers, of course there are. Indeed in my experience a lot of them don't actually buy in bulk anyway. Naggins and a few cans in a bag seem to be the preferred option of many.

The real reasons why people drink too much need to be addressed by Harris and the HSE. These reasons are complex, difficult and expensive to treat from a public health aspect . The quick fix pricing increase option will not treat the real core of the matter and is only tinkering at the edge of the issue.

punisher5112

elperello wrote: »

When you see someone in the supermarket buying a case of beer or a bottle of spirits they are not necessarily going home to drink the lot in one go. Lots of us like to have a drink or two at home when we feel like it and prefer to purchase at a reasonable price. Others may be buying for a family barbecue or get together. A case or bottle may be consumed but spread over a number of people.

That's not to deny that here are problem drinkers, of course there are. Indeed in my experience a lot of them don't actually buy in bulk anyway. Naggins and a few cans in a bag seem to be the preferred option of many.

The real reasons why people drink too much need to be addressed by Harris and the HSE. These reasons are complex, difficult and expensive to treat from a public health aspect . The quick fix pricing increase option will not treat the real core of the matter and is only tinkering at the edge of the issue.

Exactly...

I buy when on offer and it could be there weeks if not months...

I bought 2 bottles of vodka recently and have no plans to use anytime soon.

Few beers yeah will have a few but a whole slab fcuk no ...

The Late Late Show

completedit wrote: »

The very fact people take issue with a picture of Obama with a Guiness shows how odd this countries attitude to alcohol is. It's just a drink, it's just alcohol but we have made it to be this taboo thing that yet somehow is ubiquitous in our culture. This creates a forbidden fruit effect and results in the binge drinking culture

And creates room for groups like the Pioneer Total Abstinence Association of the Sacred Heart. The very name sounds like something out of Gilead in The Handmaid's Tale. This organisation had too much of a say in 1950s-1960s Ireland. Do we want to return to this?:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/analysis/recruited-as-teenage-spy-by-the-pioneer-total-abstinence-association-369319.html

And oh yes when they were strong, Ireland had its Handmaids and Marthas too. They were not called that but were called Magdalenes. We had our Red Centre too and they were called Good Shepherd Convents.

listermint

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So many seem to be in denial about this country's crisis with alcohol.

This is a good start but harsher policies are needed in my opinion.

Another thing that needs to be challenged is advertising and how this country is promoted and associated with drink around the world. On the latter there is no virtue in promoting your country as a land of alcoholics (and then Irish people get offended abroad when they are referred to as drunks). What goes around comes around with that. This nonsense with associating Guinness for example (run by a British company) with our country - I can't understand why that is allowed to continue unchecked (for example like every high profile guest has to have a pint of guinness in public (Obama, the Queen etc...).

So good start by the government ending cheap deals and cheap selling but they need to go further in my opinion.

As for the OP - you describe the young late night drinking culture in Dublin as fun. Go in to Dublin City Center most nights after 12 am as a sober person and "fun" is not how most would describe it.

Horse crap , yourself and lawred have been peddling this nonsense for two years now.

Yet consumption is down year on year on year. The youth aren't interested in drinking anymore. The adults don't bother as they can't afford it.

You two have proven nothing. All the state indicate consumption is down across the board.

The sole and only reason laws like these are being peddled the sole reason is because pubs are closing down left right and centre. And the parties funders are not happy.

That's the truth. You know it I know it lawred knows it.

Your own personal distaste for alcohol clouds your judgement immensely.

punisher5112

Drugs are out of control....

It's easier to deal with a drink them it is one on drugs believe me, I've much experience.

Annasopra

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The public gets the politicians they deserve at the end of the day.

People were happy enough to buy into this man's bull**** when he was clearly lying and pandering, just because it was what they wanted to hear at the time. No amount of pointing out how disingenuous he was being would suffice, people didn't want to hear it, he was doing what they wanted him to do and that was all that mattered. Nevermind that he was lying, he wasn't walking on them, twas the other people, and so was grand. Well now he's more indiscriminate about who he walks on.

Lying about what?

Annasopra

listermint wrote: »

Horse crap , yourself and lawred have been peddling this nonsense for two years now.

Yet consumption is down year on year on year. The youth aren't interested in drinking anymore. The adults don't bother as they can't afford it.

You two have proven nothing. All the state indicate consumption is down across the board.

The sole and only reason laws like these are being peddled the sole reason is because pubs are closing down left right and centre. And the parties funders are not happy.

That's the truth. You know it I know it lawred knows it.

Your own personal distaste for alcohol clouds your judgement immensely.

Parties funders? What kind of bullcrap is that?

Tony EH

So tired of these pricks.

The price of a pint is allowed to out of control nearly everywhere and they hit the alternative of drinking at home too.

Have to keep the Vintners Assoc. happy. Happy at any cost to everyone else.

The Late Late Show

Some people who 'defend' this legislation talk about drunken disorderly violent youths on streets. They exist for sure. That reminds me of the part of The Handmaid's Tale where imprisoned trainee handmaids were shown and told of the time before when women were free to work and dress as they please and yes drink alcohol. Now, they can't do any of this and are told it is 'freedom from' versus 'freedom to'.

Drunken youths exist and some people drink to excess and they are getting worse and worse. No denying that. Punish THEM not the rest of us is the message our THICK politicians fail to realise. As for this alcohol is bad for you, sugar/coffee/tea/meat/oranges/tinned tomatoes/etc too, this is health-Taliban gone crazy. We have seen racist, sectarian, misogynist, religious, atheist, etc. fascism before, now it is health fascism. Time to stop this ... as it is bad for us!

the_syco

lawred2 wrote: »

It won't make it worse anyway

Actually, it may. People will go back to making homebrews, that will cause sickness and even death if the alcohol is not created correctly.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

As for the OP - you describe the young late night drinking culture in Dublin as fun. Go in to Dublin City Center most nights after 12 am as a sober person and "fun" is not how most would describe it.

Apart from working or drinking, there are very few reasons why I'd go into the city centre, at any time.

lawred2

listermint wrote: »

Horse crap , yourself and lawred have been peddling this nonsense for two years now.

Yet consumption is down year on year on year. The youth aren't interested in drinking anymore. The adults don't bother as they can't afford it.

You two have proven nothing. All the state indicate consumption is down across the board.

The sole and only reason laws like these are being peddled the sole reason is because pubs are closing down left right and centre. And the parties funders are not happy.

That's the truth. You know it I know it lawred knows it.

Your own personal distaste for alcohol clouds your judgement immensely.

Jaysus I've been peddling this for two years! Have I? Maybe I was but I can assure you I'm not idealogically motivated or anything..

Just can't really see what's so bad about supermarkets not being free to sell slabs of bottles and cans for less than a euro a drink...

The lad and lassie buying a couple of drinks is hardly going to be affected too much

The Late Late Show

Tony EH wrote: »

So tired of these pricks.

The price of a pint is allowed to out of control nearly everywhere and they hit the alternative of drinking at home too.

Have to keep the Vintners Assoc. happy. Happy at any cost to everyone else.

You notice the 2 sides of this. Pubs? Nothing done to hinder their sales. Cheaper alternatives? Everything is done to hinder their sales. When pubs were doing better than they were now, we were not getting any of this health-focused Gilead nonsense. Says it all.

I have been to Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway and notice the price of the humble pint of Carlsberg, Heineken, Smithwicks Red Ale, or Guinness can vary wildly. Some will be reasonable, others will be €5 or €6. Maximum pricing is what is needed for pubs.

The amount of energy and outrage a disproportionate number of people on this website muster up any time tax increases on alcohol, or restrictions on our legalised drug-dealing centres known affectionately as "pubs" are proposed is hugely instructive.

It's almost as if these people have convinced themselves that their lives would be less enjoyable without alcohol. And that says so much about the extent of the brainwashing from the alcohol industry in Ireland. It's long passed the time that all promotion of this most pernicious of drugs in our society is made illegal. It's long passed time for our moronic and troubled troglodytes who romanticise alcohol to grow up in their attitude to alcohol.

Kermit.de.frog

Agree. Try telling these people that most of the rest of the world does not have the relationship with alcohol this country has and they just ignore the fact we have serious issues.

They talk about Dublin's "nightlife". I'm all for nightlife, I'm all for a good time and like a few drinks but...

...anyone here spend an hour in Dublin, early hours, sober (I did it recently) and you will see with your own sober eyes how bad the problem is.

Then ask yourselves is that the state other capital cities are late at night across Europe? Hint: it isn't.

But apparently it's a good thing the streets are thronged with drunks and the behaviour that goes with it.

You'd have to feel sorry for any tourists or visitors not part of stag or hen party or just randomers who have to work or clean up every morning...

It's horrible, it's intimidating, it's noisy and it's pretty lawless except when you see the very rare occupied garda van.

elperello

Deleted User wrote: »

The amount of energy and outrage a disproportionate number of people on this website muster up any time tax increases on alcohol, or restrictions on our legalised drug-dealing centres known affectionately as "pubs" are proposed is hugely instructive.

It's almost as if these people have convinced themselves that their lives would be less enjoyable without alcohol. And that says so much about the extent of the brainwashing from the alcohol industry in Ireland. It's long passed the time that all promotion of this most pernicious of drugs in our society is made illegal. It's long passed time for our moronic and troubled troglodytes who romanticise alcohol to grow up in their attitude to alcohol.

Just for a start this is not a tax increase.
Furthermore the measures proposed will have no effect on the pub trade.

I am quite sure that my life would be less enjoyable without a nice cold beer on a Summer day, a glass of good wine with a home cooked meal or a drop of whiskey on a Winter night.

I don't need any advice from the drinks industry or any other source, I trust my taste buds.

Tony EH

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Agree. Try telling these people that most of the rest of the world does not have the relationship with alcohol this country has and they just ignore the fact we have serious issues.

They talk about Dublin's "nightlife". I'm all for nightlife, I'm all for a good time and like a few drinks but...

...anyone here spend an hour in Dublin, early hours, sober (I did it recently) and you will see with your own sober eyes how bad the problem is.

Then ask yourselves is that the state other capital cities are late at night across Europe? Hint: it isn't.

But apparently it's a good thing the streets are thronged with drunks and the behaviour that goes with it.

You'd have to feel sorry for any tourists or visitors not part of stag or hen party or just randomers who have to work or clean up every morning...

It's horrible, it's intimidating, it's noisy and it's pretty lawless except when you see the very rare occupied garda van.

You need to visit a few other countries. You'll understand just much bollocks is in your post.

Go to Berlin and check out what goes on at 4 in the morning. Or Amsterdam even. Barcelona late at night is an eye opener too and nearly any Eastern European city would give us a real run for our money alcohol-wise.

In short, you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Kermit.de.frog

Tony EH wrote: »

You need to visit a few other countries. You'll understand just much bollocks is in your post.

Go to Berlin and check out what goes on at 4 in the morning. Or Amsterdam even. Barcelona late at night is an eye opener too and nearly any Eastern European city would give us a real run for our money alcohol-wise.

In short, you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I have been in Amsterdam and Berlin out late night and i'm not the one talking bollocks.

You are just trying to cover for the extent of public drunkeness in Ireland which far exceeds Berlin or most parts of Amsterdam.

Tony EH

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have been in Amsterdam and Berlin out late night and i'm not the one talking bollocks.

You are just trying to cover for the extent of public drunkeness in Ireland which far exceeds Berlin or most parts of Amsterdam.

Nonsense. A night in Berlin would put us to shame regards people tying one on. Their weekends make us look like amateur hour.

Take a trip to New York and check out Manhattan on a Saturday night, or even one of the boroughs. There's just as much drinking going on and much more in many cases.

Ireland and it's beer consumption is mickey mouse compared to the hard drinking done in other countries.

The Late Late Show

Deleted User wrote: »

The amount of energy and outrage a disproportionate number of people on this website muster up any time tax increases on alcohol, or restrictions on our legalised drug-dealing centres known affectionately as "pubs" are proposed is hugely instructive.

It's almost as if these people have convinced themselves that their lives would be less enjoyable without alcohol. And that says so much about the extent of the brainwashing from the alcohol industry in Ireland. It's long passed the time that all promotion of this most pernicious of drugs in our society is made illegal. It's long passed time for our moronic and troubled troglodytes who romanticise alcohol to grow up in their attitude to alcohol.

Blessed be the fruit, may the lord open. This is the type of view that starts dictatorships! A few pints of beer is hardly crystal meth, cocaine or heroin is it? Alcohol has been drunk by man since the dawn of civilisation. Most drinkers of it do not harm themselves or anyone. The minority who abuse it are just that and the rest of us (whether we drink or we don't) should not suffer because of a minority of thugs who are that way anyway.