Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

Topgear on Dave · 23-09-2019 2:19pm

You'd have to wonder sometimes. He did get them to disarm and like other folks have mentioned they never jailed him.

careless sherpa · 23-09-2019 2:19pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Gerry was an IRA man and a British agent. He was responsible for the Eksund seizure.

Who was it that attempted to kill him a couple of times then?

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 2:22pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Gerry was an IRA man and a British agent. He was responsible for the Eksund seizure.

Well I’m sure as other posters who say they don’t care if he was in the IRA or not does it matter if he was a British agent or not as long as he helped achieve peace?

WB Yokes · 23-09-2019 2:25pm

careless sherpa wrote: »

Who was it that attempted to kill him a couple of times then?

Go ahead tell me the details of the assassination attempts.

maccored · 23-09-2019 2:28pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

your 66 posts in this thread would suggest otherwise.

Most of that is answering the waffle. Great to see you care enough to count my posts though. Life must be boring

ohnonotgmail · 23-09-2019 2:33pm

maccored wrote: »

Most of that is answering the waffle. Great to see you care enough to count my posts though. Life must be boring

no need to count them. you can find that info in a few seconds. no bother at all.

careless sherpa · 23-09-2019 2:34pm

WB Yokes wrote: »

Go ahead tell me the details of the assassination attempts.

Early don't you do a search

WB Yokes · 23-09-2019 2:39pm

careless sherpa wrote: »

Early don't you do a search

I can use google I just wanted to see if you actually knew.

James Brown · 23-09-2019 2:43pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Well I’m sure as other posters who say they don’t care if he was in the IRA or not does it matter if he was a British agent or not as long as he helped achieve peace?

Yourself and Blanch, confuse disagreement with all sorts of notions.
If you said Maggie Thatcher was in the 'RA, and we agreed/disagreed, would we be Conservatives?

maccored · 23-09-2019 2:45pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

no need to count them. you can find that info in a few seconds. no bother at all.

good for you.

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 2:54pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Well I’m sure as other posters who say they don’t care if he was in the IRA or not does it matter if he was a British agent or not as long as he helped achieve peace?

Yourself and Blanch, confuse disagreement with all sorts of notions.
If you said Maggie Thatcher was in the 'RA, and we agreed/disagreed, would we be Conservatives?

You really are not making any sense. If it doesn’t matter if Gerry Adams was in the IRA or not why should it matter if he was a British agent or not.

If you would like to know if he was a British agent or not can you understand why others would like to know if he was in the IRA or not?

maccored · 23-09-2019 2:57pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You really are not making any sense. If it doesn’t matter if Gerry Adams was in the IRA or not why should it matter if he was a British agent or not.

If you would like to know if he was a British agent or not can you understand why others would like to know if he was in the IRA or not?

grand so - damn brits then are completely to blame for everything. If you are correct and if Adams was also in the ira, then the brits are responsible for everything the IRA done. Agreed?

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 3:00pm

maccored wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You really are not making any sense. If it doesn’t matter if Gerry Adams was in the IRA or not why should it matter if he was a British agent or not.

If you would like to know if he was a British agent or not can you understand why others would like to know if he was in the IRA or not?

grand so - damn brits then are completely to blame for everything. If you are correct and if Adams was also in the ira, then the brits are responsible for everything the IRA done. Agreed?

I think you miss my point. I don’t know if Adams was a British agent has been suggested in relation to the interception of the Eksund shipment and the Loughgall massacre but I would like to find out.
Similar I would like to find out if Adams was in the IRA despite being told it doesn’t matter, who cares etc.

FrancieBrady · 23-09-2019 3:03pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Similar I would like to find out if Adams was in the IRA

What then? What will it change?

Certainly not your mind, which is already made up.

You guys just want your 'I told ya, I told ya', day in the sun.

Whoop de doo. :rolleyes:

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 3:05pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Similar I would like to find out if Adams was in the IRA

What then? What will it change?

Certainly not your mind, which is already made up.

You guys just want your 'I told ya, I told ya', day in the sun.

Whoop de doo. :rolleyes:

Would your perception of Adams changed if it was confirmed he was a British agent?

ohnonotgmail · 23-09-2019 3:05pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What then? What will it change?

Certainly not your mind, which is already made up.

You guys just want your 'I told ya, I told ya', day in the sun.

Whoop de doo. :rolleyes:

and it certainly wouldn't change your mind Francie.

James Brown · 23-09-2019 3:07pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You really are not making any sense. If it doesn’t matter if Gerry Adams was in the IRA or not why should it matter if he was a British agent or not.

If you would like to know if he was a British agent or not can you understand why others would like to know if he was in the IRA or not?

I'll explain. You used this topic to slag off Adams and the IRA. Then you start inferring people supported both. Then you went off on a geography side road to try score points. Now you're attempting to come across like you are actually interested in a discussion.
To answer your question, genuine debate. If you agree or disagree with a premise you might be inclined to comment on that.
If he were a British Agent I guess you owe him an apology? Or are you shifting stances depending on which one allows you try score the most points?
Gerry Adams, 'RA man.
Gerry Adams, British patriot.
Good luck playing both sides for personal jollies.

FrancieBrady · 23-09-2019 3:14pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Would your perception of Adams changed if it was confirmed he was a British agent?

My perception of Adams was of a man who was good and bad, who made mistakes and who also made astute political decisions. Much like any other politician.
If he turned out to be also a British agent that would just be another tick in the mistake column.

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 3:15pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You really are not making any sense. If it doesn’t matter if Gerry Adams was in the IRA or not why should it matter if he was a British agent or not.

If you would like to know if he was a British agent or not can you understand why others would like to know if he was in the IRA or not?

I'll explain. You used this topic to slag off Adams and the IRA. Then you start inferring people supported both. Then you went off on a geography side road to try score points. Now you're attempting to come across like you are actually interested in a discussion.
To answer your question, genuine debate. If you agree or disagree with a premise you might be inclined to comment on that.
If he were a British Agent I guess you owe him an apology? Or are you shifting stances depending on which one allows you try score the most points?
Gerry Adams, 'RA man.
Gerry Adams, British patriot.
Good luck playing both sides for personal jollies.

I’ve either touched a nerve or you simply can’t support your position that it doesn’t matter if Adams was in the IRA.

FrancieBrady · 23-09-2019 3:16pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’ve either touched a nerve or you simply can’t support your position that it doesn’t matter if Adams was in the IRA.

We are all ears. Tell us why it matters to you?

James Brown · 23-09-2019 3:18pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’ve either touched a nerve or you simply can’t support your position that it doesn’t matter if Adams was in the IRA.

No, you've dodged a comment

I think he was, however he's never been officially accused. I would much prefer he were an IRA member than a British Agent. The latter would have me losing some respect for him.

maccored · 23-09-2019 3:30pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think you miss my point. I don’t know if Adams was a British agent has been suggested in relation to the interception of the Eksund shipment and the Loughgall massacre but I would like to find out.
Similar I would like to find out if Adams was in the IRA despite being told it doesn’t matter, who cares etc.

Make up your mind. Are you saying he was a british agent (therefore the british were in complete control and let things go on) or that he wasn't? Which is it?

Or alternatively, are you waffling about something you wont take a side on?

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 3:38pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’ve either touched a nerve or you simply can’t support your position that it doesn’t matter if Adams was in the IRA.

We are all ears. Tell us why it matters to you?

You are asking me why I am interested in the role played by one of the major actors in a conflict that has dominated my country for the best part of my life? Seriously?

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 3:41pm

maccored wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think you miss my point. I don’t know if Adams was a British agent has been suggested in relation to the interception of the Eksund shipment and the Loughgall massacre but I would like to find out.
Similar I would like to find out if Adams was in the IRA despite being told it doesn’t matter, who cares etc.

Make up your mind. Are you saying he was a british agent (therefore the british were in complete control and let things go on) or that he wasn't? Which is it?

Or alternatively, are you waffling about something you wont take a side on?

I’ll try and spell it out again. I don’t know if he was in the IRA or if he was a British agent but both are things I would be interested in finding out.
So to say, as you do, that it doesn’t matter, is I believe disingenuous.

FrancieBrady · 23-09-2019 3:47pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are asking me why I am interested in the role played by one of the major actors in a conflict that has dominated my country for the best part of my life? Seriously?

Yes.

Why does it matter, and what difference would knowing, make to you?

I ran a 'test' on myself:

1. Gerry was in the IRA. What difference does knowing that make to understanding what happened?

[2] Gerry wasn't in the IRA: What difference does knowing that make to understanding what happened?

The answer to both is the same...it makes no difference.

ohnonotgmail · 23-09-2019 3:49pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes.

Why does it matter, and what difference would knowing, make to you?

I ran a 'test' on myself:

1. Gerry was in the IRA. What difference does knowing that make to understanding what happened?

[2] Gerry wasn't in the IRA: What difference does knowing that make to understanding what happened?

The answer to both is the same...it makes no difference.

Well if it could be proven he was a member then he has been lying to you for decades. that wouldn't affect your opinion of him?

FrancieBrady · 23-09-2019 3:56pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well if it could be proven he was a member then he has been lying to you for decades. that wouldn't affect your opinion of him?

I don't think any adult should be living in a world where people are hero worshipped.

I don't hold Adams in any thrall or worship. He is ultimately a politician.

A politician who navigated his people to a peace deal and equal status in a formerly bigoted and sectarian state. A strategic lie about his membership of the 'RA wouldn't tarnish that achievement in my books anyhow. The IRA existed and operated and would have, even if Adams never existed.

SafeSurfer · 23-09-2019 3:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are asking me why I am interested in the role played by one of the major actors in a conflict that has dominated my country for the best part of my life? Seriously?

Yes.

Why does it matter, and what difference would knowing, make to you?

I ran a 'test' on myself:

1. Gerry was in the IRA. What difference does knowing that make to understanding what happened?

[2] Gerry wasn't in the IRA: What difference does knowing that make to understanding what happened?

The answer to both is the same...it makes no difference.

Look at the debate on this thread.

Adams denies he was ever an IRA volunteer.
Many believe Adams was an IRA volunteer.
Others believe he was not in the IRA because he was never convicted.
Others believe he was in the IRA but obviously had to lie about it because if he were to tell the truth he would have to face the consequences.

If it is accepted by posters that Adams obviously had to lie about being a volunteer for political reasons why is the notion that he would lie about being a British agent for political reasons dismissed out of hand?

Credibility matters. The truth matters.

ohnonotgmail · 23-09-2019 3:59pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think any adult should be living in a world where people are hero worshipped.

I don't hold Adams in any thrall or worship. He is ultimately a politician.

A politician who navigated his people to a peace deal and equal status in a formerly bigoted and sectarian state. A strategic lie about his membership of the 'RA wouldn't tarnish that achievement in my books anyhow. The IRA existed and operated and would have, even if Adams never existed.

and you have ignored the question. a good politicians answer.

FrancieBrady · 23-09-2019 4:04pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Look at the debate on this thread.

Adams denies he was ever an IRA volunteer.
Many believe Adams was an IRA volunteer.
Others believe he was not in the IRA because he was never convicted.
Others believe he was in the IRA but obviously had to lie about it because if he were to tell the truth he would have to face the consequences.

If it is accepted by posters that Adams obviously had to lie about being a volunteer for political reasons why is the notion that he would lie about being a British agent for political reasons dismissed out of hand?

Credibility matters. The truth matters.

The debate has as much use as one of those 'What if...' radio programmes.

Navel gazing for the moral high grounders.

Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

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