Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

maccored

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you couldn’t care if he was a spy why have you repeatedly asked numerous posters if they think he was a spy or not?

Also I simply don’t believe that if you saw a newspaper headline stating “Confirmed:Adams Was British Spy” that you wouldn’t read it.

If you don’t care if Adams was in the IRA or a British spy why are you even on the thread?

I asked the two people who were asking everyone else what THEY thought. Neither of you have replied - you just constantly avoided answering the question.

That speaks volumes.

maccored

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I’ll discuss anything you want. Fire away if you’ll excuse the pun.

Do you think Adams was a British spy?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Some people believe the earth is flat. You won’t change their minds.

I have explained before how I view this:

I can see reasons why it would be important for the leader of SF at that time, not to be in the IRA as well. And how it would be a strategic decision. It would have severely retarded the progress of the party had it's very important figurehead (and he was important in formulating SF policy, like it or not) been spending time in jail.

I STILL have to see any credible reasons for why it matters and what it would change if it turns out he was a member other than some 'I told ya so', gloating.

He doesn’t simply deny being a member of the IRA when he was leader of Sinn Fein from 1983. He denies EVER being a member.

You don’t see why it matters?

If you can’t see any merit in the truth. Fair enough. I really can’t argue with that.

SafeSurfer

maccored wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you couldn’t care if he was a spy why have you repeatedly asked numerous posters if they think he was a spy or not?

Also I simply don’t believe that if you saw a newspaper headline stating “Confirmed:Adams Was British Spy” that you wouldn’t read it.

If you don’t care if Adams was in the IRA or a British spy why are you even on the thread?

I asked the two people who were asking everyone else what THEY thought. Neither of you have replied - you just constantly avoided answering the question.

That speaks volumes.

But if you don’t care why do you care what others believe?

Do you not see how preposterous this is? You care so little whether Adams was a British spy or not that you repeatedly ask posters if they think Adams was a British spy or not?

And I have replied.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

He doesn’t simply deny being a member of the IRA when he was leader of Sinn Fein from 1983. He denies EVER being a member.

You don’t see why it matters?

If you can’t see any merit in the truth. Fair enough. I really can’t argue with that.

What if it is the truth though?


If you believe the truth is he was a member, then so be it. You know the 'truth'.

Has the world changed much?

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have explained before how I view this:

I can see reasons why it would be important for the leader of SF at that time, not to be in the IRA as well. And how it would be a strategic decision. It would have severely retarded the progress of the party had it's very important figurehead (and he was important in formulating SF policy, like it or not) been spending time in jail.

I STILL have to see any credible reasons for why it matters and what it would change if it turns out he was a member other than some 'I told ya so', gloating.

Didn't harm them that MMcG was in the IRA and had spent time in jail.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Didn't harm them that MMcG was in the IRA and had spent time in jail.

How do you know that it didn't harm SF?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

He doesn’t simply deny being a member of the IRA when he was leader of Sinn Fein from 1983. He denies EVER being a member.

You don’t see why it matters?

If you can’t see any merit in the truth. Fair enough. I really can’t argue with that.

What if it is the truth though?


If you believe the truth is he was a member, then so be it. You know the 'truth'.

Has the world changed much?

I think that it has damaged Adam's and therefore Sinn Feins credibility and has hurt them electorally. The majority of people on this island believe Adams to be a persistent liar.

Is it important for people to know if security force members were also members of the UDA or UVF. I think it is and Sinn Fein have repeatedly called for theses links to be investigated while simultaneously the leader of the organization hid the truth about his own past.

I don’t think you can argue that Adams credibility was compromised, is compromised and it does matter.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How do you know that it didn't harm SF?

I can't but he always seemed to do well in elections. I always said i respected him way more than Adams for his honesty and the way he conducted himself.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think that it has damaged Adam's and therefore Sinn Feins credibility

I am sure he and they will be touched by your concern.

You still seem to want them to agree to something you believe and feel, regardless of what the truth might be. Which is a bit of an ask.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I can't

Exactly. So it remains plausible that a strategic decision was made to keep the two separate at the very top of the organisation. Adams was always the idelogical leader of SF in a way McGuinness wasn't from what I could see. It is why he remained at the top for so long.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I can't

Exactly. So it remains plausible that a strategic decision was made to keep the two separate at the very top of the organisation. Adams was always the idelogical leader of SF in a way McGuinness wasn't from what I could see. It is why he remained at the top for so long.

Do you mean by this strategic decision that after Adams assumed leadership of Sinn Fein in 1983 he ceased to be a member of the IRA?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you mean by this strategic decision that after Adams assumed leadership of Sinn Fein in 1983 he ceased to be a member of the IRA?

Adams was active in SF since the early 70's according to anything I read about him.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you mean by this strategic decision that after Adams assumed leadership of Sinn Fein in 1983 he ceased to be a member of the IRA?

Adams was active in SF since the early 70's according to anything I read about him.

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

I thought you were convinced you knew the 'truth'? Wee slip up there SS?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

I thought you were convinced you knew the 'truth'? Wee slip up there SS?

I said I believe. Wee slip up yourself.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I said I believe. Wee slip up yourself.

belief
/bɪˈliːf/

noun
1.
an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I said I believe. Wee slip up yourself.

belief
/bɪˈliːf/

noun
1.
an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

hold (something) as an opinion; think.
"I believe we've already met"

Fionn1952

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

Of the people likely to vote for him or SF, I'd say the majority lie in the 45% who don't, so I don't think it's impacting SF too heavily.

The people who care a lot still wouldn't vote SF if there was somehow conclusive proof provided that he wasn't. This is obviously a significantly large group (with short memories on the history of their own parties in many cases), and I can't see this being overcome to make SF an electoral force beyond 3rd largest party, with a significant margin to FF/FG, in Gerry Adams' lifetime.

SafeSurfer

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

Of the people likely to vote for him or SF, I'd say the majority lie in the 45% who don't, so I don't think it's impacting SF too heavily.

The people who care a lot still wouldn't vote SF if there was somehow conclusive proof provided that he wasn't. This is obviously a significantly large group (with short memories on the history of their own parties in many cases), and I can't see this being overcome to make SF an electoral force beyond 3rd largest party, with a significant margin to FF/FG, in Gerry Adams' lifetime.

What former FF/FG politician denied being a member of the IRA after the war of independence?

I can’t think of any.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

hold (something) as an opinion; think.
"I believe we've already met"

:D

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What former FF/FG politician denied being a member of the IRA after the war of independence?

I can’t think of any.

They just decided together to lock the testimonies away until everybody was dead.

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/about-us

Fionn1952

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

Of the people likely to vote for him or SF, I'd say the majority lie in the 45% who don't, so I don't think it's impacting SF too heavily.

The people who care a lot still wouldn't vote SF if there was somehow conclusive proof provided that he wasn't. This is obviously a significantly large group (with short memories on the history of their own parties in many cases), and I can't see this being overcome to make SF an electoral force beyond 3rd largest party, with a significant margin to FF/FG, in Gerry Adams' lifetime.

What former FF/FG politician denied being a member of the IRA after the war of independence?

I can’t think of any.

Goalposts over that way, chief. If you'd read the post before having a sh*t fit, you'd realise it was in a hypothetical scenario where Gerry was proven to have NOT been in the PIRA (a hypothetical I don't believe myself) and how the general SF connection with the provos impacts on their electability.

For the record, plenty of FF/FG politicians had more than a passing association with the Provos themselves during the Troubles, but of course you'll pretend otherwise.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What former FF/FG politician denied being a member of the IRA after the war of independence?

I can’t think of any.

They just decided together to lock the testimonies away until everybody was dead.

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/about-us

Who’s “they”? What politician denied being a volunteer?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Who’s “they”? What politician denied being a volunteer?

The government of the day.

What FG, FF politician was accused of being a member?

SafeSurfer

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

Of the people likely to vote for him or SF, I'd say the majority lie in the 45% who don't, so I don't think it's impacting SF too heavily.

The people who care a lot still wouldn't vote SF if there was somehow conclusive proof provided that he wasn't. This is obviously a significantly large group (with short memories on the history of their own parties in many cases), and I can't see this being overcome to make SF an electoral force beyond 3rd largest party, with a significant margin to FF/FG, in Gerry Adams' lifetime.

What former FF/FG politician denied being a member of the IRA after the war of independence?

I can’t think of any.

Goalposts over that way, chief. If you'd read the post before having a sh*t fit, you'd realise it was in a hypothetical scenario where Gerry was proven to have NOT been in the PIRA (a hypothetical I don't believe myself) and how the general SF connection with the provos impacts on their electability.

For the record, plenty of FF/FG politicians had more than a passing association with the Provos themselves during the Troubles, but of course you'll pretend otherwise.

You are able to predict the future now too as well as a perfect knowledge of the past. A man of many talents indeed.

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

But if you don’t care why do you care what others believe?

Do you not see how preposterous this is? You care so little whether Adams was a British spy or not that you repeatedly ask posters if they think Adams was a British spy or not?

And I have replied.

Ah you're just taking the piss. Fair enough.

Fionn1952

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

Of the people likely to vote for him or SF, I'd say the majority lie in the 45% who don't, so I don't think it's impacting SF too heavily.

The people who care a lot still wouldn't vote SF if there was somehow conclusive proof provided that he wasn't. This is obviously a significantly large group (with short memories on the history of their own parties in many cases), and I can't see this being overcome to make SF an electoral force beyond 3rd largest party, with a significant margin to FF/FG, in Gerry Adams' lifetime.

What former FF/FG politician denied being a member of the IRA after the war of independence?

I can’t think of any.

Goalposts over that way, chief. If you'd read the post before having a sh*t fit, you'd realise it was in a hypothetical scenario where Gerry was proven to have NOT been in the PIRA (a hypothetical I don't believe myself) and how the general SF connection with the provos impacts on their electability.

For the record, plenty of FF/FG politicians had more than a passing association with the Provos themselves during the Troubles, but of course you'll pretend otherwise.

You are able to predict the future now too as well as a perfect knowledge of the past. A man of many talents indeed.

What part of HYPOTHETICAL isn't clear? Bloody dose.

You remind me an awful lot of another anti-Republican poster who I haven't seen in a while. Used to have the same trouble with basic comprehension and all.