Does anyone actually believe that Gerry Adams wasn't in the IRA?

SafeSurfer

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you saying that his IRA membership ceased on assuming leadership of Sinn Fein are do you believe he was never s member of the IRA?

Only 4 out of every 100 people believe he wasn’t. This is what I believe has hurt him. The credibility gap.

45% of people polled think it doesn't matter if he was or not.

There are people who would not believe anything the man said, or who would invent a reason not to believe him. They would believe that of any SF speaker and invent a fondness for McGuinness, or Maria Cahill etc etc because it shows Gerry up in their funny wee worlds.

'Getting Gerry' has developed into an unhealthy obsession for some.

I don't care one way or another, if you think he was, have at it. The man has shuffled off into retirement and the world still seems to be spinning.

So the majority of people believe it does matter.

Guess we will never know for sure until they put Vol. beside his name on the tomb stone.

Of the people likely to vote for him or SF, I'd say the majority lie in the 45% who don't, so I don't think it's impacting SF too heavily.

The people who care a lot still wouldn't vote SF if there was somehow conclusive proof provided that he wasn't. This is obviously a significantly large group (with short memories on the history of their own parties in many cases), and I can't see this being overcome to make SF an electoral force beyond 3rd largest party, with a significant margin to FF/FG, in Gerry Adams' lifetime.

What former FF/FG politician denied being a member of the IRA after the war of independence?

I can’t think of any.

Goalposts over that way, chief. If you'd read the post before having a sh*t fit, you'd realise it was in a hypothetical scenario where Gerry was proven to have NOT been in the PIRA (a hypothetical I don't believe myself) and how the general SF connection with the provos impacts on their electability.

For the record, plenty of FF/FG politicians had more than a passing association with the Provos themselves during the Troubles, but of course you'll pretend otherwise.

You are able to predict the future now too as well as a perfect knowledge of the past. A man of many talents indeed.

What part of HYPOTHETICAL isn't clear? Bloody dose.

You remind me an awful lot of another anti-Republican poster who I haven't seen in a while. Used to have the same trouble with basic comprehension and all.

The hypothetical “doesn’t matter if Adams was in IRA vs doesn’t matter if Adams was a British agent hypothesis” seems to be lost on most people.

I am not anti republican. Were Brendan Hughes et al “anti republican” for questioning Gerry Adams honesty?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The hypothetical “doesn’t matter if Adams was in IRA vs doesn’t matter if Adams was a British agent hypothesis” seems to be lost on most people.

I am not anti republican. Were Brendan Hughes et al “anti republican” for questioning Gerry Adams honesty?

You've twisted and limbo danced so much I am not entirely clear what it is you are looking for.
One minute you believe he wasn't in it and the next it is only your opinion.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The hypothetical “doesn’t matter if Adams was in IRA vs doesn’t matter if Adams was a British agent hypothesis” seems to be lost on most people.

I am not anti republican. Were Brendan Hughes et al “anti republican” for questioning Gerry Adams honesty?

You've twisted and limbo danced so much I am not entirely clear what it is you are looking for.
One minute you believe he wasn't in it and the next it is only your opinion.

You’re talking twisted and limbo dancing in the same post you that are differentiating between a belief and opinion?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You’re talking twisted and limbo dancing in the same post you that are differentiating between a belief and opinion?

You don't need to back up an 'opinion', you are entitled to it and you can be the single person in the world to have that opinion.

If you say you believe something and that I should too, then I have to ask you just what it is you are basing your belief on.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You’re talking twisted and limbo dancing in the same post you that are differentiating between a belief and opinion?

You don't need to back up an 'opinion', you are entitled to it and you can be the single person in the world to have that opinion.

If you say you believe something and that I should too, then I have to ask you just what it is you are basing your belief on.

Your just grasping at straws now Francie in fairness.

noun
The definition of an opinion is a belief, impression, judgment or prevailing view held by a person

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your just grasping at straws now Francie in fairness.

noun
The definition of an opinion is a belief, impression, judgment or prevailing view held by a person

Which is it then? An opinion that you have or a belief based on something?

You aren't making any sense.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your just grasping at straws now Francie in fairness.

noun
The definition of an opinion is a belief, impression, judgment or prevailing view held by a person

Which is it then? An opinion that you have or a belief based on something?

You aren't making any sense.

Are you still dancing on the head of a pin describing the difference between a belief and an opinion?
I believe you are. But then again that is just my opinion.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you still dancing on the head of a pin describing the difference between a belief and an opinion?
I believe you are. But then again that is just my opinion.

The vagaries of the English language.

I defined what I meant as belief a good number of posts ago:



belief
/bɪˈliːf/

noun
1.
an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

Do you accept that Adams was a member?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are you still dancing on the head of a pin describing the difference between a belief and an opinion?
I believe you are. But then again that is just my opinion.

The vagaries of the English language.

I defined what I meant as belief a good number of posts ago:



belief
/bɪˈliːf/

noun
1.
an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

Do you accept that Adams was a member?

This is the definition of an opinion:

noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"


This is the definition of a belief:

accept that (something) is true, especially without proof.

If you are really interested in my belief or my opinion on whether Ferry Adams was a member of the IRA you can read where my posts where it is stated in black and white.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

This is the definition of an opinion:

noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"


This is the definition of a belief:

accept that (something) is true, especially without proof.

If you are really interested in my belief or my opinion on whether Ferry Adams was a member of the IRA you can read where my posts where it is stated in black and white.

So your answer is to change definition I used?


As I say...limbo dancin'.

Carry on, till your carried off, as they say.

Odhinn

It has to be said that "Gerry may or may not have been in the RA" is not good ballad material.

maccored

SafeSurfer wrote: »

But if you don’t care why do you care what others believe?

Do you not see how preposterous this is? You care so little whether Adams was a British spy or not that you repeatedly ask posters if they think Adams was a British spy or not?

And I have replied.

Im asking you. You have never given your answer. though to be fair, I cant be arsed entertaining you as it's a waste of time

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Yurt! wrote: »

Pretty mad that we have an international terrorist mastermind sitting as a parliamentarian. And people thought Columbia was cracked when Pablo Escobar got elected.

There's a good Netflix series to be made about Gerry some day. An extremely interesting character, but a director of terrorism nonetheless.

For what it's worth, he never really won an election in his own name. He was voted in as the alternate and then the sitting member resigned.

The Rape of Lucretia

I have no doubt that he wasnt in it. That so many believe that he was in it, including senior IRA members, is testament to how well he played his role in it as a British agent. So yes, in one sense he was in it. But only as part of that mission to subvert it, and engineer the political solution from within. So allowing him to state, as it would be seen from his or the British side, that being an agent, and so only a fake IRA member, that he wasnt really a member. Its subtle. But is why he is able, with great confidence and without breaking his credibility with officialdom, to state that he was not a member. He committed himself to playing this role for life. And has done so masterfully. His it the single greatest hero of the peace process and the defeat of the IRA.

maccored

has anyone figured out just who gives a **** if he was or not yet? I dont

maccored

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I have no doubt that he wasnt in it. That so many believe that he was in it, including senior IRA members, is testament to how well he played his role in it as a British agent. So yes, in one sense he was in it. But only as part of that mission to subvert it, and engineer the political solution from within. So allowing him to state, as it would be seen from his or the British side, that being an agent, and so only a fake IRA member, that he wasnt really a member. Its subtle. But is why he is able, with great confidence and without breaking his credibility with officialdom, to state that he was not a member. He committed himself to playing this role for life. And has done so masterfully. His it the single greatest hero of the peace process and the defeat of the IRA.

in that case them brits have a lot to answer for with all the things they had the IRA doing. Like fighting themselves (the brits)

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/td-talked-her-son-out-of-joining-the-scouts-38755855.html


Did anyone see this? Sinn Fein TD talking her son out of joining the scouts because of child abuse. Did she not look at her own party and its former leader, and the disgraceful treatment of Paudie McGahon by party reps?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/td-talked-her-son-out-of-joining-the-scouts-38755855.html


Did anyone see this? Sinn Fein TD talking her son out of joining the scouts because of child abuse. Did she not look at her own party and its former leader, and the disgraceful treatment of Paudie McGahon by party reps?

he has confidence in Sinn Fein but not in Scouting Ireland?

Even the Indo managed to make it fairly clear in the article.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

he has confidence in Sinn Fein but not in Scouting Ireland?

Even the Indo managed to make it fairly clear in the article.

The scouts are facing up to their history, confronting it and resolving the issues. Sinn Fein are brushing theirs under the carpet.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The scouts are facing up to their history, confronting it and resolving the issues. Sinn Fein are brushing theirs under the carpet.

So you keep saying.

What was it you wanted to know?

James Brown

See FG are having a bad time of it. Best stir up some aul' Sinn Fein guff

maccored

I think all blanch152's guff is really just deeply submerged affection

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you keep saying.

What was it you wanted to know?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

See FG are having a bad time of it. Best stir up some aul' Sinn Fein guff

maccored wrote: »

I think all blanch152's guff is really just deeply submerged affection

Deflectors up.

Standard response to dismiss the issue.

Incredible hypocrisy on display from that SF woman.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Deflectors up.

Standard response to dismiss the issue.

Incredible hypocrisy on display from that SF woman.

blanch...the government are 'considering the need to have a public inquiry' into what happened in Scouting Ireland.

I.E. Scouting Ireland are not coming forward with all the information. Therefore it is still not a safe place for children in some people's opinion.

You were asked what it was you wanted to know about SF.

That you you cannot get the 'answers you want' is not the same thing as a 'lack of answers'. If thew answers that SF have given are false then it is up to someone to test those answers.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

blanch...the government are 'considering the need to have a public inquiry' into what happened in Scouting Ireland.

I.E. Scouting Ireland are not coming forward with all the information. Therefore it is still not a safe place for children in some people's opinion.

You were asked what it was you wanted to know about SF.

That you you cannot get the 'answers you want' is not the same thing as a 'lack of answers'. If thew answers that SF have given are false then it is up to someone to test those answers.

We could have the public enquiry extended to Sinn Fein, after all, if there is nothing to hide........

JohnnyFlash

Gerry Adams is a fücking creep.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

We could have the public enquiry extended to Sinn Fein, after all, if there is nothing to hide........

You still haven't outlined what it is you want to know...that we don't know already .

SF had issues with dealing with matters of abuse, the same as many many many organisations across this country and beyond.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You still haven't outlined what it is you want to know...that we don't know already .

SF had issues with dealing with matters of abuse, the same as many many many organisations across this country and beyond.

As did the Scouts, do you support a public enquiry for them, but not for Sinn Fein?

I would be happy for a public enquiry into any organisation that has failed to adequately answer the questions of victims of child abuse in respect of the organisation's handling of child abuse allegations directed at them and their members. Would you?

marieholmfan

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/td-talked-her-son-out-of-joining-the-scouts-38755855.html


Did anyone see this? Sinn Fein TD talking her son out of joining the scouts because of child abuse. Did she not look at her own party and its former leader, and the disgraceful treatment of Paudie McGahon by party reps?

I've heard that historical child abuse in the Scouts is 95% CBSI. Anyone heard this - any way to verify this?

marieholmfan

blanch152 wrote: »

The scouts are facing up to their history, confronting it and resolving the issues. Sinn Fein are brushing theirs under the carpet.

The history of the scouts or of the CBSI?