[AITA] Partner coming home late

Dtp1979

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Your doing it again, how has this got anything to do with gender?

Because the woman is being portrayed as the baddie in this scenario, of course.

Princess Calla

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Your really losing me to be honest. Your definitely forcing some sort of womens' lib agenda here, which is unfortunate. Your constantly bringing things back to a hypothetical scenario where you are finding ways to admonish his wife's behaviour. As far as I am aware the OP actually never mentioned anything about her actions being disrespectful, he was merely concerned that she might be having an affair with a client.

If anything you have been disrespecting the OP with your own agenda here, not fair.

How am I disrespecting the OP?

I have said from the very beginning for him to talk to her, raise his concerns and take it from there.

Another poster came on and gave her experience which resonated with me and I replied it's the same in my industry. I gave abit of background. You had a major issue with this!

I was replying to skallywag when I said I thought it was unfair to say she's disrespectful, you will notice his post is directly above mine!

The OP went to great lengths to say he has no problems with her other socialising.
I'm not sure how the wife is supposed to know these drinks ever 4 months are an issue for the OP if he doesn't tell her.

IAMAMORON, don't post on this thread again please.

AulWan

I just want to know what takes until 2am in the morning. Why so late?

So is it normal that entertaining business clients means going on the complete lash from 6pm after work, restaurant, pub until the bar closes then onto a nightclub until 2am?

Genuine question.

Princess Calla

AulWan wrote: »

I just want to know what takes until 2am in the morning. Why so late?

So is it normal that entertaining business clients means going on the complete lash from 6pm after work, restaurant, pub until the bar closes then onto a nightclub until 2am?

Genuine question.

I can only give my experience and it's usually a culmination of a few things,obviously these don't apply to every scenario.

There's a bar tab...drink is free...why would you leave.
The event runs over so you may only be getting to the bar relatively late.
After a few drinks, sense goes out the window and someone suggests a nightclub... No one wants to be seen as a lightweight.

4am would be the average get home time.

kg703

kg703 wrote: »

Apologies if I came across like I was making it about me, not my intention. This one does hit close to home with me and I have had situations where others would question me being one on one with a male for dinner or drinks while my husband being totally fine with it. And this is a very normal thing in the industry I’m in and nobody bats an eye if it’s a bloke.

The post from duvet day wound me up talking about ‘normal women knowing this is unacceptable’ & try ‘reverse psychology on her’ hence the rant. These people seem to have a good relationship, mind games are a sure fire way to mess that up. I’ll think before I type though next time.

Let me clarify my post for you..maybe I should have said women that I personally know and I work in a large company with lots of work meetings,junkets etc,also my friends who would mostly work in professional jobs.

I genuinely don't know any man or woman who needs to stay out drinking into the early hours of the morning with a client for work reasons, dinner and drinks yes but not until 2am.I also don't know any man or woman who wouldn't be uncomfortable with their partner doing this ...now obviously from posts here plenty of people haven't an issue with their partners doing this .It seems to me the OP has an uncomfortable feeling about this and says that his partner wouldn't like him being out with a female client until the early hours drinking with a female client whilst she was at home with the baby, seems very wrong to me and I'm entitled to my opinion.

AulWan

Princess Calla wrote: »

I can only give my experience and it's usually a culmination of a few things,obviously these don't apply to every scenario.

There's a bar tab...drink is free...why would you leave.
The event runs over so you may only be getting to the bar relatively late.
After a few drinks, sense goes out the window and someone suggests a nightclub... No one wants to be seen as a lightweight.

4am would be the average get home time.

it sounds like you are speaking of a different kind of situation then the kind the OP is referring too. You are speaking of events, that come with free bar tabs and where there are multiple attendees - the OP is talking about a strictly one-to-one situation where its only his wife alone with one client until 2am.

I don't think the OP would be at all bothered with a situation such as you ust described.

Princess Calla

AulWan wrote: »

it sounds like you are speaking of a different kind of situation then the kind the OP is referring too. You are speaking of events, that come with free bar tabs and where there are multiple attendees - the OP is talking about a strictly one-to-one situation where its only his wife alone with one client until 2am.

I don't think the OP would be at all bothered with a situation such as you ust described.

True. However often when entertaining clients it's on a tab and no one is in a rush home.

However the OP does state that the guy is only in the country... Which would lead me to think he's staying in a hotel or equivalent.

Obviously I don't know the situation but the OP comes across decent, so I'm going to assume his wife is too.

Now I don't entertain clients but I can see the thought process of not packing them off back to their hotel at 9pm. I'd say it's a late bar until 1 then hunt for taxi and home by 2.

I've stayed in hotels on my own for work and it's pretty boring.

Now I know people will say that's the guys tough luck etc.

skallywag

Princess Calla wrote: »

4am would be the average get home time.

I can relate to what you are saying, and have been there myself.

The OP's situation is completely different though. You cannot compare a situation where a group is out to the OP's case.

Apples and Oranges.

Princess Calla

Yeah I know she's entertaining an overseas client.

Without knowing the business it's hard to say if this is normal. I've family members of different genders and both of them say this is the worst entertaining as it feels like babysitting... That's their take and their opinion.

I referenced earlier my industry and I used a phrase that annoyed a whole lot of people which was not my intention. However the point I was trying to make is on this particular team it's the norm for after work socialising, from what they say they could be out until silly o clock. If I joined that team I would be expected to do the same. However the difference is I'd most likely be entertaining a gender different to my own.

Now personally I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than do that type of work, but if I wished to do it I would hope I would be supported.

It's fairly obvious I'm the minority here.

AulWan

Princess Calla wrote: »

If I joined that team I would be expected to do the same.

I wouldn't be so sure about that expectation in this case. I've asked if the OPs wife's business partner ever takes a turn in entertaining clients, but the OP hasn't returned.

jon1981

Princess Calla wrote: »

It's fairly obvious I'm the minority here.

You're probably also at a different stage in life.

"been seen as a lightweight"

I'm guessing you're pretty young? At my age (mid 30s), I couldn't give a f**k if Im seen as a lightweight. You're conflating yours and the OP partners situation, they are not the same.

Princess Calla

jon1981 wrote: »

You're probably also at a different stage in life.

"been seen as a lightweight"

I'm guessing you're pretty young? At my age (mid 30s), I couldn't give a f**k if Im seen as a lightweight. You're conflating yours and the OP partners situation, they are not the same.

Nope older than you, don't drink myself doesn't stop me from being out late if I want to.

jon1981

Princess Calla wrote: »

Nope older than you, don't drink myself doesn't stop me from being out late if I want to.

But you care about being considered a lightweight?

Princess Calla

jon1981 wrote: »

But you care about being considered a lightweight?

No I don't, I gave a list of reasons why some people stay out late. I'm sure there are plenty more.

If I'm out and having good fun I'll stay out. If the night is abit meh I'll go home. I have never once felt Oh it's getting late I better head home or questions will be asked.

Now this is dragging the thread completely off topic.

Princess Calla

Princess Calla wrote: »

No I don't, I gave a list of reasons why some people stay out late. I'm sure there are plenty more.

If I'm out and having good fun I'll stay out. If the night is abit meh I'll go home. I have never once felt Oh it's getting late I better head home or questions will be asked.

Now this is dragging the thread completely off topic.

Can you answer the actual OP,its got nothing to do with work group nights out.

What are your thoughts on someone going out to meet a client of the opposite sex for work reasons,drinking and coming home in the early hours when their OH is at home with a young baby ,can you see how any one male or female would have an issue with this?

Princess Calla

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can you answer the actual OP,its got nothing to do with work group nights out.

What are your thoughts on someone going out to meet a client of the opposite sex for work reasons,drinking and coming home in the early hours when their OH is at home with a young baby ,can you see how any one male or female would have an issue with this?

No I wouldn't, as I said if I changed teams that is what would be expected of me.

I can see people's point of view though and ultimately it comes down to trust.

I have offered my view and been attacked for it.

The OP hasn't returned and all we are doing is wondering the what ifs of a situation.

leggo

To be fair, people disagree with you but the majority aren’t attacking you (apart from the bit of a dust-up) from what I can see, so don’t take it personally. I think most people would look at the situation you describe and say “Yeah that’s fine.” Then they’d look at the OP’s situation and say “Bit dodgy.” I think that’s the point: what you’re describing isn’t the same. This is one specific client she consistently stays out late with whereas with other clients it’s grand. That’s what makes it an issue.

AulWan

Princess Calla wrote: »

I changed teams that is what would be expected of me.

Really? I can understand having to entertain clients as part of a role, but not one on one until 2am in the morning. (gender is irrelevant).

I'm sorry if I appear skeptical, but I don't think any employer can expect that of an employee.

As an aside, if you did entertain clients after working hours, are you compensated for your time?

Would they also expect you to be back at work at 9am the next morning, if you were out entertaining clients until the early hours?

Princess Calla

AulWan wrote: »

Really? I can understand having to entertain clients as part of a role, but not one on one until 2am in the morning. (gender is irrelevant).

I'm sorry if I appear skeptical, but I don't think any employer can expect that of an employee.

As an aside, if you did entertain clients after working hours, are you compensated for your time?

Would they also expect you to be back at work at 9am the next morning, if you were out entertaining clients until the early hours?

Sorry my if got lost!

As I said in my previous post I queried it with my colleague at the time, I voiced that it seemed unfair to the spouse. It was explained to me that that's the role and they are well looked after.

So yeah if I changed teams I would have to be putting in the same as my colleagues.

Princess Calla

leggo wrote: »

To be fair, people disagree with you but the majority aren’t attacking you (apart from the bit of a dust-up) from what I can see, so don’t take it personally. I think most people would look at the situation you describe and say “Yeah that’s fine.” Then they’d look at the OP’s situation and say “Bit dodgy.” I think that’s the point: what you’re describing isn’t the same. This is one specific client she consistently stays out late with whereas with other clients it’s grand. That’s what makes it an issue.

Yeah point taken.

His spidey senses are tingling on this one and he needs to trust his own instincts. However randomers on the Internet are not going to give definitive answers. The only person who knows the truth is the partner.

I tried to give a little insight as not every job involves dealing with clients in a social setting.

Everyone has their dealbreakers.

@AulWan no they wouldn't be expected in at 9.

I'm actually beginning to feel like a troll in this thread.

So I'm out

joeguevara

I think it's getting lost that this is a colleague and not a client. Clients need to be wined and dined to win business or good relationship management.

Colleagues never have to be wined and dined. A person chooses to go out alone with a colleague. The fact that the colleague is from overseas makes no difference. It is the same as going out with Sandra from accounts and rocking in at 7 in the morning.

So, why would a girl, keep going out with a guy alone, with her bf at home pulling his hair out? It is totally different than brining Mr. Sanchez out to get him to sign a contract.

Batgurl

joeguevara wrote: »

I think it's getting lost that this is a colleague and not a client. Clients need to be wined and dined to win business or good relationship management.

Colleagues never have to be wined and dined. A person chooses to go out alone with a colleague. The fact that the colleague is from overseas makes no difference. It is the same as going out with Sandra from accounts and rocking in at 7 in the morning.

So, why would a girl, keep going out with a guy alone, with her bf at home pulling his hair out? It is totally different than brining Mr. Sanchez out to get him to sign a contract.

That’s not true. It depends on the company. Large companies with multiple locations and departments require inter-departmental relationship building which is always best done face-to-face.

I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here but wining and dining colleagues is just as (if not more) important than clients in some companies. It may also be that this guy can help her career aspirations so having his ear is a plus. No different than colleagues heading out to the golf course for a round.

joeguevara

Batgurl wrote: »

That’s not true. It depends on the company. Large companies with multiple locations and departments require inter-departmental relationship building which is always best done face-to-face.

I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here but wining and dining colleagues is just as (if not more) important than clients in some companies. It may also be that this guy can help her career aspirations so having his ear is a plus. No different than colleagues heading out to the golf course for a round.

Listen you are right.. And re-reading OP this colleague is also a potential client. But I have never been in a situation where I had to be with a client/colleague alone til the early hours when my partner was at home pulling their hair out. If it was expected of me I'd prefer to work somewhere else.

joeguevara

My advice to OP.... It could be completely innocent and mightnt cross your partners mind that you are uncomfortable. If you haven't already said this tell her. If she continues to do this then (to me) you have your answer.

Batgurl

joeguevara wrote: »

Listen you are right.. And re-reading OP this colleague is also a potential client. But I have never been in a situation where I had to be with a client/colleague alone til the early hours when my partner was at home pulling their hair out. If it was expected of me I'd prefer to work somewhere else.

And that’s your prerogative Joe. But without meaning to sound condescending, it’s not how everyone operates.

Maybe this woman is ambitious and wants her career to succeed. She’s not got any kids, she’s not married, if this is how she sees herself getting ahead, more power to her.

It’s hard enough for women to get ahead in the workplace, without adding a partner who isn’t supportive into the mix.

joeguevara

Batgurl wrote: »

And that’s your prerogative Joe. But without meaning to sound condescending, it’s not how everyone operates.

Maybe this woman is ambitious and wants her career to succeed. She’s not got any kids, she’s not married, if this is how she sees herself getting ahead, more power to her.

It’s hard enough for women to get ahead in the workplace, without adding a partner who isn’t supportive into the mix.

It is way more condescending to think a woman can only get ahead in her career by staying out to the early hours alone with a male colleague.

The OP doesn't appear to be unsupportive.

Batgurl

joeguevara wrote: »

It is way more condescending to think a woman can only get ahead in her career by staying out to the early hours alone with a male colleague.

The OP doesn't appear to be unsupportive.

I never said it was the only way.

But it would be ridiculous to try and argue that going out drinking, socialising and having the craic is not one way (out of many) to build contacts and rapport with colleagues/clients/anyone, especially in Ireland. There are people who have built entire careers around it.

joeguevara

Batgurl wrote: »

I never said it was the only way.

But it would be ridiculous to try and argue that going out drinking, socialising and having the craic is not one way (out of many) to build contacts and rapport with colleagues/clients/anyone, especially in Ireland. There are people who have built entire careers around it.

Of course there is and there is nothing wrong with that if Noone was getting hurt. But that is not the case here.

Batgurl

joeguevara wrote: »

Of course there is and there is nothing wrong with that if Noone was getting hurt. But that is not the case here.

Re-read the OP. No one has gotten hurt yet. The OP is worried about potential hurt that MIGHT occur as his partner is out wining and dining this colleague.

He seems like a good guy who is supportive of his partners career aspirations, and he has no problem with her going out in a group. It’s just this one colleague he has an issue with. So I think it’s on him to sort his head out and build better trust barriers on this one issue.

Sure something COULD POTENTIALLY happen but it can also happen when she’s out with a group (which he has no problem with).

Bit of trust goes a long way.

joeguevara

Batgurl wrote: »

Re-read the OP. No one has gotten hurt yet. The OP is worried about potential hurt that MIGHT occur as his partner is out wining and dining this colleague.

He seems like a good guy who is supportive of his partners career aspirations, and he has no problem with her going out in a group. It’s just this one colleague he has an issue with. So I think it’s on him to sort his head out and build better trust barriers on this one issue.

Sure something COULD POTENTIALLY happen but it can also happen when she’s out with a group (which he has no problem with).

Bit of trust goes a long way.

If someone is thinking about that and beginning to doubt there partner and it has happened more than once then it should be considered that they are hurting.

If you read (future tense) my previous posts I did mention trust. Yes trust is important. Yes she hasn't hypothetically done anything wrong. But if a partner raises that they are effected and it continues to happen then it goes from trust to respect.

Batgurl

joeguevara wrote: »

If someone is thinking about that and beginning to doubt there partner and it has happened more than once then it should be considered that they are hurting.

If you read (future tense) my previous posts I did mention trust. Yes trust is important. Yes she hasn't hypothetically done anything wrong. But if a partner raises that they are effected and it continues to happen then it goes from trust to respect.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that then.

Because if the OP is hurting because they are thinking it might happen and is starting to doubt their partner (without any proof or evidence that would suggest it has or might) then IMO it’s their problem to deal with; not the partners.

If a person is having unsubstantiated personal issues with trust, it’s not the other persons job to fix them. Personal responsibility plays a big part.

Now if there is any physical evidence or hints as to why the OP feels this way (partner is cagey with their phone, starts lying about weird things etc) and the partner unfairly brushes them off or tries to gaslight the OP, then I’m on your side Joe.

joeguevara

Batgurl wrote: »

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that then.

Because if the OP is hurting because they are thinking it might happen and is starting to doubt their partner (without any proof or evidence that would suggest it has or might) then IMO it’s their problem to deal with; not the partners.

If a person is having unsubstantiated personal issues with trust, it’s not the other persons job to fix them. Personal responsibility plays a big part.

Now if there is any physical evidence or hints as to why the OP feels this way (partner is cagey with their phone, starts lying about weird things etc) and the partner unfairly brushes them off or tries to gaslight the OP, then I’m on your side Joe.

I think we are agreeing on most. If it's all in the OP (or indeed any persons mind) and they allow it to eat away at them with no evidence then it's their issue.

If it is brought up and said it makes them uncomfortabke and disregarded and the same behavior continues then it is about respect than the possibility of cheating.

I don't think anyone would be so laid back that the partner spending time with someone when it was raised wouldn't affect them.

I am not saying the person is cheating but they are putting spending time with a guy ahead of their partners feelings.

And a big part of my job is corporate entertainment. I have never spent to the early hours of the morning with a client or colleague that I was entertaining.

HeidiHeidi

Batgurl wrote: »

And that’s your prerogative Joe. But without meaning to sound condescending, it’s not how everyone operates.

Maybe this woman is ambitious and wants her career to succeed. She’s not got any kids, she’s not married, if this is how she sees herself getting ahead, more power to her.

It’s hard enough for women to get ahead in the workplace, without adding a partner who isn’t supportive into the mix.

Did the OP not state that while she was out wining and dining, he was at home minding the(ir, I assume) baby?


I have zero experience of industries or jobs that require this sort of behaviour, so I'm not really qualified to comment - but if it's purely a business dinner/night, then I can't imagine anything constructive being achieved at 1am that couldn't have been done by 9 or 10.



Agree with others in wondering what exactly OP has said to his partner about this - if she's blissfully ignorant of his concerns, then he needs to make himself heard. If she continues this line of behaviour in full knowledge of his concerns, then that's a whole different kettle of fish.

GreeBo

OP, I think you need to find out how she feels about this client.

It may be just that they get on really well and they use the chance to just have a good, infrequent night out as mates.
If thats the case then you need to decide how that makes you feel, and probably have a conversation with her about it.

If she says she sees it as a chore then Id be questioning why it is 1:1 and goes on until 2am?
Thats night club territory at best (and hotel room at worst!) imo and either way seems ridiculously expensive *unless* they just get on really was as per point 1.

Next issue for me is that these people who get on super well but dont really know each other should be spending hours together, alone, in a drunken environment.

out of respect I wouldnt do that or want it in my relationship.

I've had my partner be in that situation where the other, traveling client, reads something into things and makes a pass. Thats a bad outcome professionally and personally, best avoided by going home after dinner.

OMM 0000

We all have our own boundaries.

You need to talk your girlfriend about your own boundaries, and what you feel is acceptable and unacceptable.

Everything you've said seems completely reasonable (from your side, you're not being an asshole) and I think there would be nothing wrong whatsoever with telling her your concerns. If she's a mature person and respects you, she will respect your boundaries and make adjustments.

My bad news is I think your instinct is right and there's something going on with this guy.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

OP, I think you need to find out how she feels about this client.

How is he supposed to find out that? If she is up to no good she isn't going to admit it. He would have to do it deviuosly - with all that entails.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

How is he supposed to find out that? If she is up to no good she isn't going to admit it. He would have to do it deviuosly - with all that entails.

By having a grown up conversation with her.

Dtp1979

GreeBo wrote: »

By having a grown up conversation with her.

In an ideal world yea, she’d confess all. I’d say 9/10 times a person wouldn’t. I’d say the best he could hope for is that she stops seeing the guy, if in fact she’s ‘seeing’ him at all

OMM 0000

I think you know when your partner is lying.

There are two choices:

1. Trust your instincts. This is the hardest choice as it means either having to get proof she's cheating or get her to tell you the truth, or simply walk away from the relationship.

2. Don't trust your instincts. This is what most people do. They choose to believe her or they beat themselves up for being paranoid or distrustful.

LegacyUser

Id say nothing , then I’d head into town and catch her in the act if she’s upto no good on one of her ‘entertaining nights’

Up Donegal

Ultrazz wrote: »

Id say nothing , then I’d head into town and catch her in the act if she’s upto no good on one of her ‘entertaining nights’

Why not ask when and where the next meeting is to take place and make it a point of being there at the same time?

Dtp1979

Up Donegal wrote: »

Why not ask when and where the next meeting is to take place and make it a point of being there at the same time?

He’d be too busy at home minding their baby to go spying

leggo

There are so many productive steps you can take before you go stalking her around town. The relationship is as good as over anyway once you start that carry on.

joeguevara

This has nothing to do with colleague/client. Whatever his motives or actions are irrelevant.

If your gf knows that you aren't comfortable with her being alone with a guy into the early hours and she continues then you have your answer.

If she doesn't know tell her and see if it continues.

For the posters who argue that she is entitled to entertain a colleague/client to forward her career...agree to an extent...go to dinner or a meeting...but to the early hours of the morning is nothing to do with career...she is just with a guy.,I entertain a lot for my job and no way do I need to be out at 3 or 4 in the mornig with a client or colleague either male or female.

one to one wining and dining is on the cusp of appropriate as it is imo

that late is way beyond what's fair to expect you to be ok with.

a conversation is a must.

OMM 0000

joeguevara wrote: »

If your gf knows that you aren't comfortable with her being alone with a guy into the early hours and she continues then you have your answer.

This is really it.

You have to look at people's actions, not words.

If she knows her late night drinking with this mysterious guy is making you uncomfortable, and she continues doing it, her actions are saying "Spending time alone drinking with this guy is more important to me than your feelings".

And you should dump a person who thinks like that, because that person is not a decent partner as she is prioritising another man over you.

hairyprincess

Tbh in this case I would have no hesitation in getting a private investigator to explore her relationship with this person. I don’t think in doing this it spells the end of the relationship, it definitely changes things but it’s clear there is an element of suspicion and mistrust here anyway on your side. And a strong element of disrespect from her side.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

There are so many productive steps you can take before you go stalking her around town. The relationship is as good as over anyway once you start that carry on.

To be fair the relationship is in a bad place already - lack of respect on her side.

nthclare

Have you tried the good old, what's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

I was in a similar situation and she wasn't having it.
But it was different for her of course.

Have you any close female friends whom you could hang out with and just let her know that you're catching up with an old friend from college soon...

You haven't seen her in years and she looks really well, and she's great craic etc...

See how that works out, I guarantee she won't like the shoe on the other foot