Quinn Director abducted and assaulted

NIMAN

interesting to see how its been reported in the UK

Edit: it clearly is insinuating who is to blame.

AndrewJRenko

SVI40 wrote: »

There are circa 200k licenced firearms in the country. All licences are issued for hunting or target shooting. They are not licenced for personal protection, if you put that as a reason on your application form, you will be refused.

However, there are occasional exceptions, such as the first solicitor who worked with CAB, as offered a firearm, but I believe he refused.

99% of these are shotguns and rifles, right? Not exactly the kind of thing you can carry in your jacket or your car side pocket for personal protection.

There are very few handguns - about 2k as far as I can see, and most of these were licensed in the 2004-2008 window, so this would not be an option for a new applicant.

SVI40

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

99% of these are shotguns and rifles, right? Not exactly the kind of thing you can carry in your jacket or your car side pocket for personal protection.

There are very few handguns - about 2k as far as I can see, and most of these were licensed in the 2004-2008 window, so this would not be an option for a new applicant.

Correct, the majority are shotguns and rifles. No Center Fire pistols can be licenced after November 2008, but you can get a .22 pistol licenced.

ToBeFrank123

Despite having some evidence ie cctv of a guy buying bleach, the gardai and PSNI don't seem remotely close to cracking this case or making an arrest.

They allegedly know the gang involved, yet have carried out no raids on them to gather evidence.

And they likely know who the paymaster is but haven't interviewed them either.

I hate it to say but I think the police services on both sides of the border haven't done their job fully over the last 5 years. It sounds like they didn't fully investigate the early threats and this emboldened the gang and paymaster to believe they were untouchable.

If they had interviewed and raided the gang and paymaster years ago, the chances are this would have died down long ago.

Seth Brundle

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Despite having some evidence ie cctv of a guy buying bleach, the gardai and PSNI don't seem remotely close to cracking this case or making an arrest.

They allegedly know the gang involved, yet have carried out no raids on them to gather evidence.

And they likely know who the paymaster is but haven't interviewed them either.

I hate it to say but I think the police services on both sides of the border haven't done their job fully over the last 5 years. It sounds like they didn't fully investigate the early threats and this emboldened the gang and paymaster to believe they were untouchable.

If they had interviewed and raided the gang and paymaster years ago, the chances are this would have died down long ago.

1. buying bleach is not a crime and if that's what a case was based on, it would be laughed out of court.
2. the paymaster is not stupid - exactly what benefit is there to questioning him with no evidence?
In terms of raiding the gang, you would need a warrant - what evidence would this be based on? What do you expect the investigators to find?

The police on both sides of the border don't have enough to take any kind of action. What do you think they should have done apart from what would invariably be claimes is harassment of innocent people?

ToBeFrank123

Seth Brundle wrote: »

1. buying bleach is not a crime and if that's what a case was based on, it would be laughed out of court.

We were told 2 months ago by the gardai or psni they were confident they had identified the guy who bought the bleach via cctv. Not my words, theirs. Why say it if he's not the guy? If he is the guy has he been interviewed? Its fairly typical of police services on this island to make a big deal about a potential lead only for that lead to not be followed up with properly.

2. the paymaster is not stupid - exactly what benefit is there to questioning him with no evidence?

Remove all his phones and computers and go through them forensically. Search his property. Question him for 24 hours. Simple steps that any main suspect of a crime are subjected to. If he has nothing to hide, then let him go.

In terms of raiding the gang, you would need a warrant - what evidence would this be based on? What do you expect the investigators to find?

Gardaí execute intelligence based warrants all the time. Just today CAB and the gardai raided several haulage companies along the border.

So if the gardai or PSNI have no intelligence on a significant gang along the border, then I think you agree this is a massive failing on their part. A gang perpetrating dozens of acts of intimidation and violence over five years with a paymaster behind them and the gardai/PSNI haven't a clue who they are or what they are up to and just let them get on with it. As I said, not doing their job properly.

And the Quinn Directors have made clear they are not happy with police assistance for the last 5 years.

Patrick2010

Seth Brundle wrote: »

1. buying bleach is not a crime and if that's what a case was based on, it would be laughed out of court.
2. the paymaster is not stupid - exactly what benefit is there to questioning him with no evidence?
In terms of raiding the gang, you would need a warrant - what evidence would this be based on? What do you expect the investigators to find?

The police on both sides of the border don't have enough to take any kind of action. What do you think they should have done apart from what would invariably be claimes is harassment of innocent people?

The guards in Limerick at the time of the gangs didn't have much evidence but went full out on fulltime harassment of the gangs, surveillence, obvious following and regularly pulling in for questioning. Thats what they should do up there, make life as uncomfortable as possible and see if one of them crack.
Saying nothing can be done until one of them is caught redhanded or confesses is ridiculous.
Of course they're not going to charge someone with buying bleach but its enough to call him in, ask him why he bought it, where is it now, where was he at the time of the kidnap.
They'll know who his friends are, call them in for a word, make life uncomfortable.

ToBeFrank123

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Despite having some evidence ie cctv of a guy buying bleach, the gardai and PSNI don't seem remotely close to cracking this case or making an arrest.

They allegedly know the gang involved, yet have carried out no raids on them to gather evidence.

And they likely know who the paymaster is but haven't interviewed them either.

I hate it to say but I think the police services on both sides of the border haven't done their job fully over the last 5 years. It sounds like they didn't fully investigate the early threats and this emboldened the gang and paymaster to believe they were untouchable.

If they had interviewed and raided the gang and paymaster years ago, the chances are this would have died down long ago.

Are you part of the investigation team?
The general population are not kept up to date on all aspects of an investigation.
You are not aware of what is happening. Just because you haven't heard about arrests, doesn't mean nothing is happening.
But, also, police do rely on people coming forward & giving the information to them. Police are not psychic.

Danzy

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Despite having some evidence ie cctv of a guy buying bleach, the gardai and PSNI don't seem remotely close to cracking this case or making an arrest.

They allegedly know the gang involved, yet have carried out no raids on them to gather evidence.

And they likely know who the paymaster is but haven't interviewed them either.

I hate it to say but I think the police services on both sides of the border haven't done their job fully over the last 5 years. It sounds like they didn't fully investigate the early threats and this emboldened the gang and paymaster to believe they were untouchable.

If they had interviewed and raided the gang and paymaster years ago, the chances are this would have died down long ago.

He is the paymaster and more than the gang are being paid by the looks of it.

Danzy

bubblypop wrote: »

Are you part of the investigation team?
The general population are not kept up to date on all aspects of an investigation.
You are not aware of what is happening. Just because you haven't heard about arrests, doesn't mean nothing is happening.
But, also, police do rely on people coming forward & giving the information to them. Police are not psychic.

There are incidents going back 5 years that come close to the seriousness of the lunny attack.

Including the burning of a Guard's private car in 2014.

Sofiztikated

Danzy wrote: »

There are incidents going back 5 years that come close to the seriousness of the lunny attack.

Including the burning of a Guard's private car in 2014.

Apparently, the alleged bleach buying suspect isn't that long out of Loughrea on an unrelated charge.

The ARU are around here with a visible presence. The PSNI have been out stopping cars around Derrylin every day for about 15 days.

Lift them on an unrelated offence, nail them on that, and and continue working on getting them over the Lunney case. That's what I'd do.

AndrewJRenko

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Lift them on an unrelated offence, nail them on that, and and continue working on getting them over the Lunney case. That's what I'd do.

Genius idea, you should drop into the Guards and pass on your idea. I'm sure they've never thought of that.

Muahahaha

Seth Brundle wrote: »

1. buying bleach is not a crime and if that's what a case was based on, it would be laughed out of court.

Just on the bleach from the Spotlight program last night Kevin Lunney said that while he was being tortured there was a conversation between the perpetrators about bleach and one of them was ordered to go out get a bottle . He bought it in a Gala newsagents just a couple of miles down the road from the torture site and was caught on CCTV doing this.

So while it is not concrete evidence it is still very strong circumstantial evidence that many juries would accept, especially if he doesnt have a solid alibi for where he was at that time or why he was buying bleach in an area late at night in that specific shop when he passed many other shops closer to his own house.

I think the problem here is obvious- the perpetrators are no longer living on this side of the border and wont be crossing it anytime soon for the Gardai to pick them up. The PSNI cant pick them up for a crime committed in another jurisdiction but no doubt know who and where they are. So long as they remain within Northern Ireland there isnt much the Gardai can do here.

AndrewJRenko

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just on the bleach from the Spotlight program last night Kevin Lunney said that while he was being tortured there was a conversation between the perpetrators about bleach and one of them was ordered to go out get a bottle . He bought it in a Gala newsagents just a couple of miles down the road from the torture site and was caught on CCTV doing this.

So while it is not concrete evidence it is still very strong circumstantial evidence that many juries would accept, especially if he doesnt have a solid alibi for where he was at that time or why he was buying bleach in an area late at night in that specific shop when he passed many other shops closer to his own house.

I think the problem here is obvious- the perpetrators are no longer living on this side of the border and wont be crossing it anytime soon for the Gardai to pick them up. The PSNI cant pick them up for a crime committed in another jurisdiction but no doubt know who and where they are. So long as they remain within Northern Ireland there isnt much the Gardai can do here.

It's not just a question of whether a jury will accept it. The question is whether it is legally acceptable, whether the DPP will accept it and whether a judge will accept it.


And can't they just apply for extradition if they have evidence to charge someone?

Does anyone know if Lunney's interview can be viewed online anywhere?

Heard bits of it on the radio today, and very curious to see it. He seems like a fairly decent man from what I can see. Not sure why he, and the others in charge, don't agree to wrap the place up, and move off to the US or something and live out their lives in a bit of peace. I'm sure they've made decent money, and I presume the group that own QIH would surely give them work in a different area, considering the circumstances?

careless sherpa

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just on the bleach from the Spotlight program last night Kevin Lunney said that while he was being tortured there was a conversation between the perpetrators about bleach and one of them was ordered to go out get a bottle . He bought it in a Gala newsagents just a couple of miles down the road from the torture site and was caught on CCTV doing this.

So while it is not concrete evidence it is still very strong circumstantial evidence that many juries would accept, especially if he doesnt have a solid alibi for where he was at that time or why he was buying bleach in an area late at night in that specific shop when he passed many other shops closer to his own house.

I think the problem here is obvious- the perpetrators are no longer living on this side of the border and wont be crossing it anytime soon for the Gardai to pick them up. The PSNI cant pick them up for a crime committed in another jurisdiction but no doubt know who and where they are. So long as they remain within Northern Ireland there isnt much the Gardai can do here.

Some of them are still in cavan so that is not the case

Ha Long Bay

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone know if Lunney's interview can be viewed online anywhere?

Heard bits of it on the radio today, and very curious to see it. He seems like a fairly decent man from what I can see. Not sure why he, and the others in charge, don't agree to wrap the place up, and move off to the US or something and live out their lives in a bit of peace. I'm sure they've made decent money, and I presume the group that own QIH would surely give them work in a different area, considering the circumstances?

https://www.facebook.com/BBCNewsline/videos/the-county-fermanagh-businessman-kevin-lunney-who-was-abducted-and-beaten-speaks/715782295583006/

Muahahaha

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not just a question of whether a jury will accept it. The question is whether it is legally acceptable, whether the DPP will accept it and whether a judge will accept it.

Im no legal expert but circumstantial evidence convicted Joe o'Reilly, he got sent down because his mobile phone pinged off a mast close to his house at the time of Rachels murder. The Gardai had literally nothing else on him but the circumstantial evidence was enough to convict.

So I would imagine the buying of the bleach so close to where a man was soon after tortured with bleach after he heard them talking about going out to buy bleach would be legally admissable and something your average jury could convict on. Especially if he doesnt have a rock solid alibi as to why he was in that specific small area buying bleach, thats presuming he passed plenty of other shops he could have bought the bleach in late at night.

And can't they just apply for extradition if they have evidence to charge someone?

AFAIK they could apply for a European Arrest Warrant, thats presuming the perpatrators are still within the EU.

@KKV it was on BBC Spotlight so unless you have a VPN its not possible to watch it on the BBC Player. It might show up on Youtube

Gadgetman496

john4321 wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/BBCNewsline/videos/the-county-fermanagh-businessman-kevin-lunney-who-was-abducted-and-beaten-speaks/715782295583006/

That is not the full Spotlight Pro.

Ha Long Bay

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

That is not the full Spotlight Pro.

I never claimed it was. I was just trying to help the poster who was looking for some of the interview.

DFGrange

There's very little coverage of this outside Ireland, which I find odd as it's a horrific crime being committed in a first world country as an attempt to extort or intimidate an official of a major local company. This is the kind of thing you expect in a lawless ****hole on another continent.

I don't know why the media are quiet about it but it hasn't gone unnoticed and is a huge red flag for investment in Ireland.

The Gardai and PSNI need to get all over this, take these cnuts down and show them they can't behave like third world scumbags on our island.

RobbieMD

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im no legal expert but circumstantial evidence convicted Joe o'Reilly, he got sent down because his mobile phone pinged off a mast close to his house at the time of Rachels murder. The Gardai had literally nothing else on him but the circumstantial evidence was enough to convict.

So I would imagine the buying of the bleach so close to where a man was soon after tortured with bleach after he heard them talking about going out to buy bleach would be legally admissable and something your average jury could convict on. Especially if he doesnt have a rock solid alibi as to why he was in that specific small area buying bleach, thats presuming he passed plenty of other shops he could have bought the bleach in late at night.



AFAIK they could apply for a European Arrest Warrant, thats presuming the perpatrators are still within the EU.

@KKV it was on BBC Spotlight so unless you have a VPN its not possible to watch it on the BBC Player. It might show up on Youtube

The crux with European arrest warrants is An Garda Siochana can’t interview the arrested person. The warrant is specific and is only used to charge a person. If the other evidence gathered hasn’t been presented to the accused, it can’t be used in a subsequent trial.

martyoo

GARDAÍ, THE PSNI and the Derbyshire Constabulary are searching a number of locations in Ireland, Northern Ireland and England this morning in their investigations into the abduction of Kevin Lunney last month.

Link

Sofiztikated

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Genius idea, you should drop into the Guards and pass on your idea. I'm sure they've never thought of that.

Will do.

I'll also report you for murder, because you absolutely slayed me with that reply.

Feisar

I must be a bit simple but if the paymaster is known what's the problem here?

Seth Brundle

Feisar wrote: »

I must be a bit simple but if the paymaster is known what's the problem here?

Many people say that Gerry Adams was in the iRA - proving it is another matter!
Same thing here.


* and no I'm not trying to make this about the IRA but trying to use a well known example of having to prove something.

maccored

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Many people say that Gerry Adams was in the iRA - proving it is another matter!
Same thing here.


* and no I'm not trying to make this about the IRA but trying to use a well known example of having to prove something.

going by this threads beginning sure I thought even the dogs in the street knew it was the IRA. Again - another load of accusations with no foundation

FrancieBrady

Main suspect has died in police raid in Derbyshire according to RTE

mgn

Looks likes the ringleader of the gang that kidnapped Lunney died this morning when Police raid his place in Derbyshire.

celt262

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Main suspect has died in police raid in Derbyshire according to RTE

I wonder will that solve the whole thing now.