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Man shoots dead neighbour in Co. Mayo

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    #452
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,377 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Insanity is as muddy as mud!


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    #453
    LeVaterIzVet
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭LeVaterIzVet


    walshb wrote: »
    Insanity is a muddy as mud!

    What?


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    #454
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,377 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    LeVaterIzVet wrote: »
    What?

    Defining it, agreeing on it etc etc...claiming it...

    Forever used as a red herring...


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    #455
    LeVaterIzVet
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭LeVaterIzVet


    walshb wrote: »
    Defining it, agreeing on it etc etc...claiming it...

    Forever used as a red herring...

    The defences are there for a reason. It's for the jury to decide whether or not they're being "used as a red herring".


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    #456
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,377 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    LeVaterIzVet wrote: »
    The defences are there for a reason. It's for the jury to decide whether or not they're being "used as a red herring".

    Juries are lay people...

    It’s common knowledge regarding insanity and how persons argue it, interpret it and throw it around every which way. Highly qualified psychiatrists agreeing and disagreeing depending on what “side” they’re on...


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    #457
    LeVaterIzVet
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭LeVaterIzVet


    walshb wrote: »
    Juries are lay people...

    It’s common knowledge regarding insanity and how persons argue it, interpret it and throw it around every which way. Highly qualified psychiatrists agreeing and disagreeing depending on what “side” they’re on...

    True in regard to a 'mental disorders' not included in the act, but dementia is specifially included in Section 1. If the doctors find that he is actually in the early stages of dementia, it will be available to him.


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    #458
    Sac O Spuds
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Sac O Spuds


    Havent read all the posts on this but here's my take on the incident.
    Several years ago AGS changed the licensing arrangements for firearms. I have a single barrel shotgun on a restricted licence for game and vermin control on my own farm only. When the new arrangements came in, the local sergeant gave me the necessary paperwork to fill out and told me how to fill it out. He warned me however under no circumstances to put down personal protection or security as a reason for requiring a firearm.
    When I asked why he said it was grounds for refusal and I'd have to dispose of the gun as the licence would not be issued.
    I know of a few instances where guns have been produced to ward off people. The Gardai were informed of the incident and the first thing they did was confiscate the firearm. It is an offence in this country to brandish a legally held firearm (even unloaded)in any way to threaten anyone. Shotguns and rifles are for game hunting, vermin control and target practice on ranges only. Use it as a form of personal protection I guarantee it will be confiscated permanently.


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    #459
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    LeVaterIzVet wrote: »
    Dementia is included under the definition of a 'mental illness' under the 2006 Act, meaning that the defence is open to him.

    I never said dementia wasn't a mental illness. And if he is in the early stages then it's mild, and would hardly merit the definition of "insane" which is considered extreme mental illness.

    It would be getting him off on a technicality.

    I would never refer to someone with dementia as "insane", even in the late stages, and frankly I think thats disgusting.


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    #460
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,712 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    My village must be one in a million so going by what you said, the local shop is doing grand and nobody has abondoned the area, in fact any house that comes up for sale is snapped up immediately.

    What's the village GalwayGuy? Is it a tourist village? Because it's bucking the trend and I'm glad it is. Meanwhile, small Irish towns are suffering badly with lots of closures, I'm very surprised you haven't heard of this, it's widely documented in mainstream media and there has been great upset with the closure of Post Offices and pubs throughout the country.

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/enniscorthyguardian/news/report-that-rural-ireland-is-dying-is-hardly-a-shock-but-what-will-be-done-37591439.html

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/small-irish-towns-suffering-long-drawn-out-decline-report-finds-1.3714987


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    #461
    LeVaterIzVet
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭LeVaterIzVet


    AulWan wrote: »
    I never said dementia wasn't a mental illness. And if he is in the early stages then it's mild, and would hardly merit the definition of "insane" which is considered extreme mental illness.

    It would be getting him off on a technicality.

    I would never refer to someone with dementia as "insane", even in the late stages, and frankly I think thats disgusting.

    Nobody is calling him insane? You obviously have no idea about what you're talking about. The defence of insanity is not exclusively reserved for people who are 'insane'.

    I said IF he is found to have dementia, the DEFENCE OF INSANITY will be available to him. Dementia is a 'mental disorder' which is SPECIFICALLY DEFINED under the Insanity Act. Nobody is making this personal, everything that I've said is facts-based. You're the one spouting your opinions.


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    #462
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    LeVaterIzVet wrote: »
    Nobody is calling him insane? You obviously have no idea about what you're talking about. The defence of insanity is not exclusively reserved for people who are 'insane'.

    I said IF he is found to have dementia, the DEFENCE OF INSANITY will be available to him. Dementia is a 'mental disorder' which is SPECIFICALLY DEFINED under the Insanity Act. Nobody is making this personal, everything that I've said is facts-based. You're the one spouting your opinions.

    Why are they looking for ways to get him off? He shot and killed a man! That is not in dispute.

    He is NOT insane, early stage dementia does not excuse for his actions, and he should not be defended on that basis, end off.

    Ridiculous, and just more attempts to excuse his wrongdoing.

    Jesus, I hope the dead man's family never read this thread, and all the excuses being made for their loved one's killer.


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    #463
    LeVaterIzVet
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭LeVaterIzVet


    AulWan wrote: »
    Why are they looking for ways to get him off? He shot and killed a man! That is not in dispute.

    He is NOT insane, early stage dementia does not excuse for his actions, and he should not be defended on that basis, end off.

    Ridiculous, and just more attempts to excuse his wrongdoing.

    Jesus, I hope the dead man's family never read this thread, and all the excuses being made for their loved one's killer.

    Wow you are one stupid individual.


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    #464
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Far from it. This is not the legal discussions board, it is Current Affairs/IMHO.

    I understand that technically the defence of insanity may be available, but "IMHO" even suggesting using it to defend what happened here is disgusting.

    You are free to have a different opinion, but I suggest you keep it respectful.


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    #465
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    What's the village GalwayGuy? Is it a tourist village? Because it's bucking the trend and I'm glad it is. Meanwhile, small Irish towns are suffering badly with lots of closures, I'm very surprised you haven't heard of this, it's widely documented in mainstream media and there has been great upset with the closure of Post Offices and pubs throughout the country.

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/enniscorthyguardian/news/report-that-rural-ireland-is-dying-is-hardly-a-shock-but-what-will-be-done-37591439.html

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/small-irish-towns-suffering-long-drawn-out-decline-report-finds-1.3714987

    I never said POs weren't closing, Government policy again in action against rural communities.

    The country pub is dying, don't think I mentioned anything about pubs in my previous post but seeing as you brought it up we have 2 here, 1 of them is also a restaurant and is doing well, a fine example of people adapting to the changing times.


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    #466
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    GoneHome wrote: »
    So you would have no problem letting them rob you or your property, christ you're very understanding

    Its not about that, you are saying that you will shoot anyone who comes within 100m of your house at night time. That is simply shooting first and asking questions later. You wrongly assume that anyone approaching your property has to be a burglar. There are a number of people who might be calling to your house after dark, a broken down motorist, an ambulance driver who is lost, a doctor on a house call who is lost, vets looking for a farm and the Gardai investigating a report or a crime. In your scenario you would have shot all those people and then shrugged your shoulders afterwards. There is 40 years in prison for anyone who shoots a Garda dead which is why your logic of shooting strangers first and asking questions later is a really dumb idea.


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    #467
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    AulWan wrote: »
    @Graces7, it was posted earlier on the thread by someone who said they were from the locality that the deceased had visited his neighbour earlier that evening, left to go to a protest but forgot his phone. He was calling in on his way back home after the protest to collect it. (unverified).

    Yes I saw that. Also on the funeral homily they said his watch ran on different than ordinary time and that he was in the habit of arriving at houses at all times of day and night.

    What irks folk is that he shot to ??kill?? not warning shots in the air. That poor man after the first shot running for his life to his car.. can you imagine?


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    #468
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    AulWan wrote: »
    Dementia does not cause insanity. The early stage is quite mild, and would merely manifest as a bit forgetful.

    It varies greatly. Forgetfulness will vary and may well cause panic; if he genuinely did not realise it was a friend as his memory had lapsed briefly? Saw a stranger and just panicked, especially if woken from a deep sleep by the dog?

    Need not be dementia; ;all of us can get memory lapses; as we age. I certainly do.

    They prayed for him at the funeral. Hope he is getting some help and not just stuck out there alone and in grief.


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    #469
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Its not about that, you are saying that you will shoot anyone who comes within 100m of your house at night time. That is simply shooting first and asking questions later. You wrongly assume that anyone approaching your property has to be a burglar. There are a number of people who might be calling to your house after dark, a broken down motorist, an ambulance driver who is lost, a doctor on a house call who is lost, vets looking for a farm and the Gardai investigating a report or a crime. In your scenario you would have shot all those people and then shrugged your shoulders afterwards. There is 40 years in prison for anyone who shoots a Garda dead which is why your logic of shooting strangers first and asking questions later is a really dumb idea.

    agree with you totally. I go to bed very early and occasionally someone arrives unexpectedly. The door is always locked as one of the cats can open it else and as a precaution I lock the big gate which is out of sight of the dwelling ( Small island ; no immediate neighbours) Folk call from the gate and I reply from the window. If they knock at the door having scaled the gate I ask who it is.

    There has only been one bad situation; some kind folk who were online at that time may remember it? I called the mainland Gardai who told me to lock the door. And it was dealt with properly then.

    Never any need for massive aggression. I had a very loud dog at the time too.


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    #470
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    I never said POs weren't closing, Government policy again in action against rural communities.

    The country pub is dying, don't think I mentioned anything about pubs in my previous post but seeing as you brought it up we have 2 here, 1 of them is also a restaurant and is doing well, a fine example of people adapting to the changing times.

    On the theme of rural isolation etc. A village I know built ( council ) a curved row of very attractive bungalows with a green in front. Opposite the community centre and church.. So that the outlying old folk, the isolated ones , could come and live there.

    They all refused to move! All were more than happy to be in their isolated homes.

    So the houses went to young families with children which has helped the school and the green patch is now a playground . The community started a meals on wheels service and a lunch club for the old folk. Gets them out and meeting folk and lovely to have a good home cooked meal.

    The Post office closed but that was because it was underused and no one would take it on. There is a nearby shop and a thriving pub that does b and B

    yes folk adapt and choose. Thankfully. I am nearly 80 and chose to live here . Lost track of officialdom who seek to imprison me in a town! Because they would not cope out here..I love it and thrive.


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    #471
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Graces7 wrote: »
    agree with you totally. I go to bed very early and occasionally someone arrives unexpectedly. The door is always locked as one of the cats can open it else and as a precaution I lock the big gate which is out of sight of the dwelling ( Small island ; no immediate neighbours) Folk call from the gate and I reply from the window. If they knock at the door having scaled the gate I ask who it is.

    There has only been one bad situation; some kind folk who were online at that time may remember it? I called the mainland Gardai who told me to lock the door. And it was dealt with properly then.

    Never any need for massive aggression. I had a very loud dog at the time too.

    Your isolation on an island isn't the same as someone living 5 miles from a motorway with plenty of exit routes for gangs of scumbags to ransack your house every night.

    I'm half your age and male, well able to handle myself one on one. My house is down a very secluded laneway 2km from a motorway, a neighbour up the road had his house ransacked and him in it, tied him up and bet ****e out of him, they even stole the mantlepiece. When I hear the dog bark at night or someone drive by (no business on this lane but my house) I grab the bat beside my bed and I'm awake then for 2 hours.

    I'm seriously considering getting a gun, been onto the local gun club and a farmer. I wouldn't have a chance against a load of lads with machetes. I wouldn't leave the house, but if someone came in id have no problem using it.


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    #472
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    There is a batchelor farmer a few miles away from where I live, his house is up a boreen and he was tied up and robbed but was so afraid he never told anyone.

    Few days later the same lads came back and roughed him up again and took what little he had left, this guy is only a bit over 5ft tall and nearly 80, it's a disgrace that someone works hard all their life and in their last few years has to put up with that kind of thing.


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    #473
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Hoboo wrote: »
    When I hear the dog bark at night or someone drive by (no business on this lane but my house) I grab the bat beside my bed and I'm awake then for 2 hours.

    I'm seriously considering getting a gun, been onto the local gun club and a farmer. I wouldn't have a chance against a load of lads with machetes. I wouldn't leave the house, but if someone came in id have no problem using it.

    You should seriously consider moving, not getting a gun.

    I don't understand why anyone would want to live somewhere where they are in constant fear.


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    #474
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    AulWan wrote: »
    You should seriously consider moving, not getting a gun.

    I don't understand why anyone would want to live somewhere where they are in constant fear.

    If someone who is afraid living in the country moves into a town, they will be afraid living in the town. The fear won't go away.


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    #475
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    AulWan wrote: »
    You should seriously consider moving, not getting a gun.

    I don't understand why anyone would want to live somewhere where they are in constant fear.

    It is very hard that it has come to this. but it has. Bringing a gun into the equation is not the answer and while it is very hard to sell up etc? I left the Uk over aggression issues so know how hard it is to do that.

    But life and health and peace matter more than a house. And shooting someone and adding to the lawlessness ? A high cost to pay for a house.


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    #476
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    If someone who is afraid living in the country moves into a town, they will be afraid living in the town. The fear won't go away.

    Going to disagree on this from my own experience. I left my home and country over such issues and there is no fear in me here. I litera;lly moved away and am at peace here

    This poster's fear is more than understandable. It is not a groundless fear or an innate terror but is based on an actual event too close for comfort.

    A shocking situation.


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    #477
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Getting back to the thread header... When the Gardaí released the man they described the event as a " tragic accident" and so far there are no charges against him. A file sent to the DPP. Does that mean no charges?


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    #478
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Getting back to the thread header... When the Gardaí released the man they described the event as a " tragic accident" and so far there are no charges against him. A file sent to the DPP. Does that mean no charges?

    I think it's in the DPP's hands now what charges if any will be brought against him.


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    #479
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    https://www.thejournal.ie/men-charged-over-mayo-burglaries-4819488-Sep2019/

    Even after all that’s happened this week the brazen burglars still terrorize rural Ireland , great to see guards caught this gang , hopefully they get appropriate sentences ...


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    #480
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/men-charged-over-mayo-burglaries-4819488-Sep2019/

    Even after all that’s happened this week the brazen burglars still terrorize rural Ireland , great to see guards caught this gang , hopefully they get appropriate sentences ...


    Why the rural part? It was established earlier in the thread that Dublin has the most burglaries per capita.


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    #481
    Andrew00
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/men-charged-over-mayo-burglaries-4819488-Sep2019/

    Even after all that’s happened this week the brazen burglars still terrorize rural Ireland , great to see guards caught this gang , hopefully they get appropriate sentences ...

    If they do get prison, they'll be out after 8 months on good behaviour


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