Man shoots dead neighbour in Co. Mayo

STB.

KaneToad wrote: »

The likelihood of coming to physical harm from a gang in rural Ireland is virtually zero.

The level of fear is not commensurate with the level of threat. Those most afraid of physical harm are those who are least likely to be the victim of it.

This is nonsense. Operation Thor is ongoing the last time I checked. 9000 arrests and 11000 charges since 2015.


Not that this is justification for the actions of those living in fear.

GoneHome

TheRiverman wrote: »

It was reported on the RTE News this evening the man that was shot had been attending a farmer's protest at the Dawn Meats factory in Ballyhaunis,so what possibly happened is that as a friend of the old man,he called to check on him on his way home which was at a later time due to the protest at the meat factory.

Jeez I don't know, I'd never in my wildest dreams think of calling into a neighbour or friend's house at that hour of the night, especially an elderly neighbour who would have their own night/bedtime routine and would be startled to highest degree hearing a car pulling up outside their house at that time.

GoneHome

STB. wrote: »

This is nonsense. Operation Thor is ongoing the last time I checked. 9000 arrests and 11000 charges since 2015.


Not that this is justification for the actions of those living in fear.

I live in a very rural area of Co Limerick, rural crime is rampant around here and I know of plenty of elderly neighbours living in constant fear.

Portsalon

TheRiverman wrote: »

It was reported on the RTE News this evening the man that was shot had been attending a farmer's protest at the Dawn Meats factory in Ballyhaunis,so what possibly happened is that as a friend of the old man,he called to check on him on his way home which was at a later time due to the protest at the meat factory.

More details in The Irish Sun:-

Mr Caulfield, who lives alone at his isolated farmhouse, was in bed around 11.55pm on Tuesday night when he is understood to have heard his dog barking.

The farmer then noticed the security lights on his property before grabbing his firearm and going downstairs.

Once there, it’s believed he noticed a man in the yard before shouting a warning and opening fire.

Mr Kilduff, who knows Mr Caulfield, then got into his car before driving off.

SECOND SHOT
Investigators believe a second shot was fired at the vehicle before it crashed into a ditch 100 yards from the property.

We can also reveal the house holder raised the alarm after finding Mr Kilduff slumped at the wheel of the car.

Pedro K

dulpit wrote: »

I don't own a gun, but I was under the impression (open to correction here) that if you do have a licence you need to ensure it is stored in a safe or similar, with the ammo remote from it. So the old man here made a deliberate decision to get the gun and load it, which sort of discounts (to an extent anyway) the accidental nature of this.

If you do have a licence, I assume it needs to be renewed, and there's an element of oversight in ensuring the person is still capable of ownership?

Not quite. A safe isn't always needed. There is one category of firearm, an unrestricted shotgun, which can be stored disassembled with a trigger lock. Ammunition doesn't need to be stored separately. A shotgun can be assembled in a matter of seconds.

Other types of firearms do have to be stored in safes.

The licence is renewed every three years.

I doubt the man had the firearm stored properly anyway though. Probably leaning behind a door somewhere. There tends to be a lot of that in the country.

KaneToad

STB. wrote: »

This is nonsense. Operation Thor is ongoing the last time I checked. 9000 arrests and 11000 charges since 2015.


Not that this is justification for the actions of those living in fear.

There were 15 burglaries in Mayo in July 2019. 8 of which were in businesses in Castlebar. So, there were a maximum of 7 burglaries in domestic settings in the entire county.

There are 48,070 households in Mayo (Census 2011).

Where is all this fear coming from? Burglaries do not involve the threat of violence or harm (aggravated burglaries do). Those most likely to be a victim of a violent crime/assault are young, urban males.

KaneToad

GoneHome wrote: »

I live in a very rural area of Co Limerick, rural crime is rampant around here and I know of plenty of elderly neighbours living in constant fear.

They shouldn't live in fear. The likelihood that they will be a victim of crime is quite low.

STB.

GoneHome wrote: »

I live in a very rural area of Co Limerick, rural crime is rampant around here and I know of plenty of elderly neighbours living in constant fear.

Community policing has been undervalued and marginalised. There was well over 139 garda stations closed saving the taxpayer a measly 500k per year.

Meanwhile back in reality we have had a spate of burglaries down here in the South East. Guards are catching some but then they are out and about again, next town/county. Doesn't take a genius to figure how easy it would be to target remote areas when you have a shopping list of closed stations.

NabyLadistheman

KaneToad wrote: »

They shouldn't live in fear. The likelihood that they will be a victim of crime is quite low.

Tell that to an 80 year old gentleman who lives at home on his own in a rural area. Elderly people can be seriously paranoid about this type of thing. Just because there is a low chance of it happening doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I doubt he was aware of the stats listed above regarding burglaries in the county

TheRiverman

Portsalon wrote: »

More details in The Irish Sun:-

I wasn't aware of that Sun report,regardless what happened a man unfortunately has tragically died.

STB.

KaneToad wrote: »

There were 15 burglaries in Mayo in July 2019. 8 of which were in businesses in Castlebar. So, there were a maximum of 7 burglaries in domestic settings in the entire county.

There are 48,070 households in Mayo (Census 2011).

Where is all this fear coming from? Burglaries do not involve the threat of violence or harm (aggravated burglaries do). Those most likely to be a victim of a violent crime/assault are young, urban males.

The CSO maintain there are 80 reported burglaries and 45 recorded assaults, on average, every day. Non reported are estimated to be in 30% region.

The IFA have come out previously saying that since the "closure of stations, more people, particularly elderly, have become afraid in their own homes at night".

Don't try and tell people that they have nothing to worry about. This fear is fueled by local awareness of burglaries within the community, not just fear of the unknown.

NIMAN

Portsalon wrote: »

More details in The Irish Sun:-

I don't like reading anything on the Sun website, but it says that the dead man was in the house dicsussing buying equipment, and left but had car problems so came back to the farm wearing a hat with a light on it.

And then he was shot.

So not sure which story is true.

STB.

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't like reading anything on the Sun website, but it says that the dead man was in the house dicsussing buying equipment, and left but had car problems so came back to the farm wearing a hat with a light on it.

And then he was shot.

So not sure which story is true.

Just read it. Vastly different to "their" story earlier. Full of inconsistencies.

NIMAN

Well, it is The Sun.

pinkyeye

I live in a rural area and often get lost coming back from somewhere late at night. I would very often pull in to look up Google maps or ring someone.

It's ridiculous that people think it's justified to shoot at someone just because you're elderly.

If you live in that much fear in rural Ireland you really shouldn't be living rurally.

Suarezistheman

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Tell that to an 80 year old gentleman who lives at home on his own in a rural area. Elderly people can be seriously paranoid about this type of thing. Just because there is a low chance of it happening doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I doubt he was aware of the stats listed above regarding burglaries in the county

but this whole post is an appeal towards irrationality!

how can that be your actual case?

if people are so disproportionately worried about anything so unlikely to happen, there are a couple of priority steps to take

- try to educate them such that they get a sense of proportionality
- take the fcuking gun out of their reach

if you cannot live alone in the country without shooting people, then you should not be living alone in the country.

nothing offered as a defence- and it is all defence of this event, whether it likes to admit it or not- makes the slightest shred of difference to the utter stupidity and needlessness of a mans death.

it doesnt matter two figs whether the shooter thought he had the right to fire or what his understanding of statistics is

kirving

KaneToad wrote: »

They shouldn't live in fear. The likelihood that they will be a victim of crime is quite low.

It's widespread enough that a significant proportion of our elderly population are absolutely petrified going to bed every night.

It only take one person in the community to be broken into once to terrorise dozens of lonely people for the rest of their lives.

The CSO website is f-all use when you hear an unfamiliar car pull up outside.

Kevin Irving

Kevin Irving wrote: »

It's widespread enough that a significant proportion of our elderly population are absolutely petrified going to bed every night.

It only take one person in the community to be broken into once to terrorise dozens of lonely people for the rest of their lives.

The CSO website is f-all use when you hear an unfamiliar car pull up outside.

if you arent offering this as a defence of shooting a neighbour dead

then what are you offering it for

the honest incorrect belief that leads to an aul fella firing a gun at someone with no cause is nonetheless incorrect

do you try to tackle that or do you continue to say "ah he wouldnt a done it if he washnt fiersh shcared hes an awful shound aul shkin"

screamer

I don’t know all the details but I do agree it’s wrong to fire on someone just in case they are there to rob you. But I do also see how this can happen in that split second fight or flight decision kicks in, an old person on their own, late at night. I can see how it happened.
Very sad for the deceased mans family and I’m sure the old man equally has a heavy load to carry for that split second decision.

meathstevie

Feisar wrote: »

Gustav sub?

Apart from that, guns go off when the trigger is pulled.

Not the greatest yoke ever made but if you carry it with the bolt forward with a magazine attached it needs to be a good clatter that sets it off.....

kirving

[Deleted User] wrote: »

if you arent offering this as a defence of shooting a neighbour dead

How did you manage to get to the conclusion that I'm defending the guy shooting someone?

I even quoted the post that I was responding to, which wasn't the OP.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

then what are you offering it for

In response to the post (which I quoted), that said that rural dwellers shouldn't live in fear.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the honest incorrect belief that leads to an aul fella firing a gun at someone with no cause is nonetheless incorrect

Now you're just on a tangent, I never suggested that.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

do you try to tackle that or do you continue to say "ah he wouldnt a done it if he washnt fiersh shcared hes an awful shound aul shkin"

Please quote where I defended him.

meathstevie

KaneToad wrote: »

There were 15 burglaries in Mayo in July 2019. 8 of which were in businesses in Castlebar. So, there were a maximum of 7 burglaries in domestic settings in the entire county.

There are 48,070 households in Mayo (Census 2011).

Where is all this fear coming from? Burglaries do not involve the threat of violence or harm (aggravated burglaries do). Those most likely to be a victim of a violent crime/assault are young, urban males.

Aside from the horrible incident being discussed here in my opinion forcibly entering someone’s home or premises as such is an extremely hostile act.

There’s no point nitpicking between the different legal definitions classifying types of burglary.

Anyone breaking into someone’s dwelling or business premises has hostile intentions and should not be one bit surprised to receive a rather prejudiced welcome if someone is present in the premises or dwelling.

How many aggravated burglaries do you think started as “normal” burglaries and ended up being aggravated burglaries when someone confronted the poor misunderstood criminal and had the audacity to interfere with their perceived entitlement to do as they please ?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

STB. wrote: »

Some amount of waffle and amateur detectives in this thread.


Both farmers were known to each other and on friendly terms. The deceased (whose name has been released) lived 3 miles up the road and stopped to make a social call after earlier attending a picket at the Dawn Meats plant in Ballyhaunis.

The man in his 80s thought it was intruders on his property and fired what where intended to be warning shots.

A tragedy.

As reported in the Irish Times.

Xenji wrote: »

It is strange how locally in the press and radio people from the area are saying how tragic an accident it was and how much of a shame it occurred, from the parish priest to locals to councilors, nobody is villainizing the perpetrator, they know the best about both the concerned and what was and has been going on in the area, not like the majority uneducated rubbish that has been spouted in this thread with no knowledge of the people or the area.

Unfortunately I can’t say much other than we are not all commenting from an uneducated viewpoint. Neither of you know what anyone here knows. It’s a small country.

kerry cow

as a rural dweller , I think we should all have guns and have a culture of defending our property if we feel threatened .
we have no one else to protect us in rural ireland ,against the perpetrator , who gets all the sympathy .
it should be a given that you should be careful in rural ireland , people live in fear , so be polite and ring ahead before you call and if there's no answere then best stay at home .

GoneHome

kerry cow wrote: »

it should be a given that you should be careful in rural ireland , people live in fear , so be polite and ring ahead before you call and if there's no answer then best stay at home .

Exactly, why in the name of god did the man in his 60s call to the older man at midnight knowing he was asleep in his bed. Car pulls up outside the house, dog starts barking, security lights go on, older man becomes startled, sees someone in his yard at that hour of the night, he must have been at his wits end with fear. There's more to this story than meets the eye.

Galwayguy35

Bit of a strange one, the full story will come out in time I suppose.

NabyLadistheman

Deleted User wrote: »

but this whole post is an appeal towards irrationality!

how can that be your actual case?

if people are so disproportionately worried about anything so unlikely to happen, there are a couple of priority steps to take

- try to educate them such that they get a sense of proportionality
- take the fcuking gun out of their reach

if you cannot live alone in the country without shooting people, then you should not be living alone in the country.

nothing offered as a defence- and it is all defence of this event, whether it likes to admit it or not- makes the slightest shred of difference to the utter stupidity and needlessness of a mans death.

it doesnt matter two figs whether the shooter thought he had the right to fire or what his understanding of statistics is

This isn't my case, this is the reality. People can live in fear without shooting people. Just because this gentleman acted irrationally does not mean there will be a spate of shootings. How many has there been over the last 10 years? Not many. I am not for one second defending the shooter just explaining that he was an elderly gentleman living in fear - for whatever reason and that caused him to act like this.

All the experts are on about educating people who are 80 plus, how do you plan on doing that? Everywhere these people go they are being warned about being vigilant at home. Go to mass that's what people are talking about. Turn on local radio it is nothing but horror stories about con artists going round rural areas. It only takes one elderly person to be attacked for an 80 year old to spend the rest of his days thinking about something happening

AulWan

kerry cow wrote: »

as a rural dweller , I think we should all have guns and have a culture of defending our property if we feel threatened .
we have no one else to protect us in rural ireland ,against the perpetrator , who gets all the sympathy .
it should be a given that you should be careful in rural ireland , people live in fear , so be polite and ring ahead before you call and if there's no answere then best stay at home .

Yeah, look how that has worked out in the US.

Maybe you should move over there, if you want to "bear arms".

ollkiller

kerry cow wrote: »

as a rural dweller , I think we should all have guns and have a culture of defending our property if we feel threatened .
we have no one else to protect us in rural ireland ,against the perpetrator , who gets all the sympathy .
it should be a given that you should be careful in rural ireland , people live in fear , so be polite and ring ahead before you call and if there's no answere then best stay at home .

Until recently i've lived in rural Mayo all my life. In no way should all people have guns. Look at America. That's what happens when everyone has guns. A lot of people are idiots and they should not have a gun.

Defend your property by all means. But don't go outside your property. If you think there's burglars outside, ring the guards, if they enter your property have at it. Leaving your house is the first mistake.

Muahahaha

Portsalon wrote: »

More details in The Irish Sun:-

Its the Sun so pinch of salt required but if what they are reporting is true then this situation is even worse. They said that he came out of the house and the other farmer was out of his car and in the yard. The 80yr fired a warning shot and the victim got back in his car and went to drive off. The 80yr old then fired another shot at the car and killed him.

So going by that reporting the initial warning shot achieved its purpose and got rid of the person he thought to be an intruder. But despite this he then went and shot him anyway, while he was in the car and driving away from the property. The second shot cannot be called self defence in any meaningful sense of the word, he could have just left it as the warning shot achieved its purpose but he didnt and now a man is dead.