Man shoots dead neighbour in Co. Mayo

Portsalon

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its the Sun so pinch of salt required but if what they are reporting is true then this situation is even worse. They said that he came out of the house and the other farmer was out of his car and in the yard. The 80yr fired a warning shot and the victim got back in his car and went to drive off. The 80yr old then fired another shot at the car and killed him.

So going by that reporting the initial warning shot achieved its purpose and got rid of the person he thought to be an intruder. But despite this he then went and shot him anyway, while he was in the car and driving away from the property. The second shot cannot be called self defence in any meaningful sense of the word, he could have just left it as the warning shot achieved its purpose but he didnt and now a man is dead.

Only flaw in that reasoning is that we don't know which shot actually killed him.

AulWan

Portsalon wrote: »

Only flaw in that reasoning is that we don't know which shot actually killed him.

It doesn't matter. Hes dead. That is what matters.

KaneToad

STB. wrote: »

The CSO maintain there are 80 reported burglaries and 45 recorded assaults, on average, every day. Non reported are estimated to be in 30% region.

The IFA have come out previously saying that since the "closure of stations, more people, particularly elderly, have become afraid in their own homes at night".

Don't try and tell people that they have nothing to worry about. This fear is fueled by local awareness of burglaries within the community, not just fear of the unknown.

80 burglaries a day, some of which are businesses, in a country of 2,003,645 households. There is no need to be afraid. We are not a high crime country. Violent crime is very rare. Media reporting is elevating fear to levels that are not commensurate with threats. If it bleeds, it leads.

The fear is the problem. Not the crime levels. Education is required. We can't have people firing shots at strangers and then lamenting the 'unfortunate accident' afterwards.

GooglePlus

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its the Sun so pinch of salt required but if what they are reporting is true then this situation is even worse. They said that he came out of the house and the other farmer was out of his car and in the yard. The 80yr fired a warning shot and the victim got back in his car and went to drive off. The 80yr old then fired another shot at the car and killed him.

So going by that reporting the initial warning shot achieved its purpose and got rid of the person he thought to be an intruder. But despite this he then went and shot him anyway, while he was in the car and driving away from the property. The second shot cannot be called self defence in any meaningful sense of the word, he could have just left it as the warning shot achieved its purpose but he didnt and now a man is dead.

It did look like the car was unintentionally left that way, as if he'd been hit while moving and veered in right.

jimgoose

GooglePlus wrote: »

It did look like the car was unintentionally left that way, as if he'd been hit while moving and veered in right.

That would be my thinking on it too.

BattleCorp

ollkiller wrote: »

Until recently i've lived in rural Mayo all my life. In no way should all people have guns. Look at America. That's what happens when everyone has guns. A lot of people are idiots and they should not have a gun.

Defend your property by all means. But don't go outside your property. If you think there's burglars outside, ring the guards, if they enter your property have at it. Leaving your house is the first mistake.

Less than half of Americans own guns.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx

finjoe

we dont know the full facts so comming out fully way is not really fair, what I will say is, our media has the Quinn CEO being attaked ahead of this story in the news bulletin after bulleting, as horrific as the Quinn attack was, there is a bigger picture there we will never know about. About the Mayo shooting, we do know there are little or no rural Gardai, let alone Garda stations. This 85 year old man, may have been disorientated due to broken/lack of sleep and its possible panicked, rightly or wrongly and discharged his gun in the direction of what apparently he thought was an attacker, should he have fired, people not in that position will say no, would you or I do it if we were in his possible state of mind and panic, maybe, maybe not. What it has highlighted is lack of visible gardai, Ime not talking about the main arteries from all the big towns with the traffic corps pulled up pulling for tax and insurance and NCT..Ime talking about a A garda station every 10/15 miles with a light on at night, and a garda car comming and going with Garda out and about locally....Quinn cases is terrible, the Mayo case is worse, a man died needlessly...

dulpit

Something I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet properly - do people believe that if someone is robbing or trespassing that the reasonable response is shooting them dead?

hightower1

kerry cow wrote: »

as a rural dweller , I think we should all have guns and have a culture of defending our property if we feel threatened .
we have no one else to protect us in rural ireland ,against the perpetrator , who gets all the sympathy .
it should be a given that you should be careful in rural ireland , people live in fear , so be polite and ring ahead before you call and if there's no answere then best stay at home .

Primary school level grammar and punctuation errors aside... did you actually just say this in a thread where a person has had their life ended?

Jesus H Christ

GooglePlus

finjoe wrote: »

we dont know the full facts so comming out fully way is not really fair, what I will say is, our media has the Quinn CEO being attaked ahead of this story in the news bulletin after bulleting, as horrific as the Quinn attack was, there is a bigger picture there we will never know about. About the Mayo shooting, we do know there are little or no rural Gardai, let alone Garda stations. This 85 year old man, may have been disorientated due to broken/lack of sleep and its possible panicked, rightly or wrongly and discharged his gun in the direction of what apparently he thought was an attacker, should he have fired, people not in that position will say no, would you or I do it if we were in his possible state of mind and panic, maybe, maybe not. What it has highlighted is lack of visible gardai, Ime not talking about the main arteries from all the big towns with the traffic corps pulled up pulling for tax and insurance and NCT..Ime talking about a A garda station every 10/15 miles with a light on at night, and a garda car comming and going with Garda out and about locally....Quinn cases is terrible, the Mayo case is worse, a man died needlessly...

There are no possible scenarios in which he rightly discharged the gun. If the man had broken into his house, fair enough but he didn't.

B-D-P--

pinkyeye wrote: »

I live in a rural area and often get lost coming back from somewhere late at night. I would very often pull in to look up Google maps or ring someone.

It's ridiculous that people think it's justified to shoot at someone just because you're elderly.

If you live in that much fear in rural Ireland you really shouldn't be living rurally.

Yea he should move to dublin...
What a absolute nonsense comment!!! You've actually managed to annoy me.

This is his home all his life, So because theres breakins and because the mans scared sh1tless he should move out of the community he grew up in. Away from his friends and family.

Sir Guy who smiles

Leighton Acidic Bead wrote: »

How do we know he was a non intruder? I am not on my neighbors property at midnight, and wouldn’t dream of actively alerting an old person of my presence outside their home at that hour knowing they were most likely terrified.

With all due respect anyone outside someone else’s property at that hour are most likely up to no good. So I don’t think he was acting with a complete disregard to the law. He was just trying to keep himself safe in a society where old people are not cared about or protected especially in rural Ireland.

I used to have to call to farms in a previous job, often at night.
I changed positions a few times and it would take you six months or so to get familiar with all your new clients, and you often had to call in to a house that might be the one you want, and if you were wrong maybe they would give you directions. So I would often have gone on to peoples property at all hours, if I got the wrong house they wouldn't have been expecting me.
It often crossed my mind that one might take a pot-shot at me one night! I had one lad who had been robbed several times and had shot an intruder once; I would be shouting his name as I came up the drive so he would know it was someone he knew!

KaneToad

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Yea he should move to dublin...
What a absolute nonsense comment!!! You've actually managed to annoy me.

This is his home all his life, So because theres breakins and because the mans scared sh1tless he should move out of the community he grew up in. Away from his friends and family.

This wasn't a break in.

Tasfasdf

The amount of sympathy for a murderer is astonishing. The bleedin heart bridge on full patrol today

KaneToad

Tasfasdf wrote: »

The amount of sympathy for a murder is astonishing. The bleedin heart bridge on full patrol today

Not necessarily a murder. Court will decide that.

B-D-P--

KaneToad wrote: »

This wasn't a break in.

No, but break ins is what made the poor man so nervous.
And yes he is a poor man, the fella he shot is one of the few people who come to visit him.
He assumed he was gone and someone else was there to beat him and take his money.

walshb

B-D-P-- wrote: »

No, but break ins is what made the poor man so nervous.
And yes he is a poor man, the fella he shot is one of the few people who come to visit him.
He assumed he was gone and someone else was there to beat him and take his money.

How do you know all this?

Feisar

dulpit wrote: »

Something I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet properly - do people believe that if someone is robbing or trespassing that the reasonable response is shooting them dead?

It's not black and white, for example what yer man did is mental.

Another example on the other hand. Yer in bed, hear noise downstairs. So you usher the wife and child into the ensuite and get them to lock the door and call the Gardaí. You call out that the Gardaí have been called, 12 gauge pointed at the bedroom door, I reckon anything coming near the door is fair game.

B-D-P--

walshb wrote: »

How do you know all this?

Because I live 2 miles from him

Tasfasdf

Feisar wrote: »

It's not black and white, for example what yer man did is mental.

Another example on the other hand. Yer in bed, hear noise downstairs. So you usher the wife and child into the ensuite and get them to lock the door and call the Gardaí. You call out that the Gardaí have been called, 12 gauge pointed at the bedroom door, I reckon anything coming near the door is fair game.

The distinction between your example and what happened are light and day apart and shouldn't even be compared.

Feisar

Tasfasdf wrote: »

The distinction between your example and what happened are light and day apart and shouldn't even be compared.

Agreed however I was answering a question, my first statement said what yer man did was mental. It might technically be man slaughter but it's murder in my eyes.

B-D-P--

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Because I live 2 miles from him

Is the story about forgetting his phone true?

Nekarsulm

Tasfasdf wrote: »

2 miles ffs:rolleyes:

You do realise that "two miles away" is probably "three houses away" don't you?

howamidifferent

dulpit wrote: »

Something I haven't seen addressed in this thread yet properly - do people believe that if someone is robbing or trespassing that the reasonable response is shooting them dead?

Yes I do. If you decide that I have no rights to safe enjoyment of my home then in my eyes you give up your right to have me care about you in anyway shape or form.

kerry cow

I live in rural ireland and now think it's time for me to get a gun .
and if someone breaks into my home I will defend it .
it's a black taxi he'd be taking out of here .
maybe time to arm up , there's no one else to protect you .

AulWan

kerry cow wrote: »

I live in rural ireland and now think it's time for me to get a gun .
and if someone breaks into my home I will defend it .
it's a black taxi he'd be taking out of here .
maybe time to arm up , there's no one else to protect you .

This wasn't a break in.

walshb

When all is said an done, and assuming the pensioner didn't mean to kill, the big issue is darkness......had it been daylight I think that man lives....

Ah well, for some, that's just a case of sh1t happens!

AulWan

B-D-P-- wrote: »

No, but break ins is what made the poor man so nervous.
And yes he is a poor man, the fella he shot is one of the few people who come to visit him.
He assumed he was gone and someone else was there to beat him and take his money.

Being nervous is not a justification for pointing a loaded gun at someone and pulling the trigger.

Its definitely not justification for firing shots at someone who, according to reports, was leaving.

No matter how hard some people will try to use other break ins in the area and the man's age to justify his actions, he took another person's life - a man who probably had another 20 years worth of life to live himself, now denied to him and his family.

There has to be consequences for that.

riddles

I guess its a sad state of affairs when people feel they are more likely to see a thief than a visitor.

dulpit

howamidifferent wrote: »

Yes I do. If you decide that I have no rights to safe enjoyment of my home then in my eyes you give up your right to have me care about you in anyway shape or form.

So the logical extrapolation of this is that the correct sentence in court for a break-in is death penalty?