One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

tuxy

punisher5112 wrote: »

But I'm sure even you can see how absurd that is.....

Of course but the point is it does not matter if she was fairly wealthy. She had 7 children so the council had agreed to give her a house, that's how the system currently works. Of course she should have been removed from the list but while she was on it she was never going to pay for permanent accommodation so her children would end up in difficult situations from time to time.

Galwayguy35

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's a confined space, just like a stable. In fact, significantly larger than a stable.

Horses aren't picky about aesthetics.

Nobody is saying it's a bright idea to keep a pony in a garden; it just isn't inherently cruel.

They need space to move around and graze, not a lot of grass in a back garden I'd suggest, we are also coming into winter so the horse will need fodder over the next few months.

Or maybe she will do what they do here in Galway which is let them roam free any green area nearby.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why aren't serious savings made and actually put towards the national debt....

Way to much been spent on social.

Sure let's turn the other cheek as it averages out at "40c" per taxpayer. What harm in subsiding a lifestyle devoid of any responsibility. Any incentive to seek employment? Sweet f-all on the government tit. Cash and her ilk have a stacked deck, the rest of us can't play the "minority" card.

PostWoke

Guy Person wrote: »

Ah yes. After the women cycling thread comes the traveller bashing one. What's next, trans people or immigrants?

What remarkable intellectual dishonesty. This thread is criticizing one person (and rightfully so). Not all travellers, not all homeless. Are you suggesting any criticism of an individual is a damnation of their entire ethnic group?

I know many homeless people. Some are far worse individuals than her; but a lot are far better and are very angry that she became some kind of pseudo-spokesman for the housing crisis last year. But she was the loudest, and then someone made the mistake of giving her a megaphone on top of that. But she definitely doesn't represent homeless people. She represents all the women who never have any intention of working and so have kids so our welfare state will pick up the tab. What is she at now? 30 years old, 7 kids, 3 convictions for shoplifting and 0 intentions of ever working? I suppose we have to add a miniature horse to that count now...

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's a confined space, just like a stable. In fact, significantly larger than a stable.

Horses aren't picky about aesthetics.

Nobody is saying it's a bright idea to keep a pony in a garden; it just isn't inherently cruel.

Except stables are typically connected to very large fields...

... and how do you know they're not picky about aesthetics?

Cantona's Collars

Has she gotten her 4eva home or will she be wanting to move to make room for the Xmas presents in a couple of months?

freshpopcorn

This situation is never going to improve really I'd say.
My only solutions to it are.
Change the secondary school curriculum to include more subjects such as trades,more vocational subject, etc.(Which would benefit a lot).
Be far stricter about people dropping out of school and the payment of child benefit.
I could be way off with this statement but I'm fairly sure Margaret or another traveller woman made this whole statement about pulling her kids out of secondary school at around the age of 12 because schools were full of drugs.(All rubbish like this needs to be stopped).

PostWoke

PostWoke wrote: »

Except stables are typically connected to very large fields...

... and how do you know they're not picky about aesthetics?

Dafuq you on about?

Sh1tting where they sleep, and a distinct lack of interest in the 500 greatest works of art is the first clue.

Not all yards are connected to grazing. As I said earlier, there are top-class trainers operating in this country with no, or almost no grazing available to them. It's a bit like claiming that a dog needs to live in a pack, or that keeping a dog indoors is cruel. It's a strange claim.

Odelay

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dafuq you on about?

Sh1tting where they sleep, and a distinct lack of interest in the 500 greatest works of art is the first clue.

Not all yards are connected to grazing. As I said earlier, there are top-class trainers operating in this country with no, or almost no grazing available to them. It's a bit like claiming that a dog needs to live in a pack, or that keeping a dog indoors is cruel. It's a strange claim.

You’re wrong. A back garden is not suitable for a pony. You know it but keep playing your game. I’m not taking part anymore,

Btw https://www.ispca.ie/images/pages/Horsecare2017.pdf. Here’s a nifty leaflet for you.

I know what you’re up to. Nobody could be that stupid, it’s not possible.

knipex

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's a confined space, just like a stable. In fact, significantly larger than a stable.

Horses aren't picky about aesthetics.

Nobody is saying it's a bright idea to keep a pony in a garden; it just isn't inherently cruel.

So a backyard is roofed, and dry with appropriate bedding ??
And the animal is getting appropriate exercise, veterinary care, food etc ?

My daughter would love a pony, but we don't have the space for one to have sufficient exercise and grazing. Not a stable nor spare funds, for food, farrier, vet bills etc.

Of course its cruelty...

My grandfather, both of them had horses, they used them as transport and on farms. One of them was a blacksmith \ farrier and a bit of a dealer.

They are as much part of my culture as any traveler, as they are for most people in Ireland.


Its a bullsh15t argument to justify ongoing cruelty and abuse. with horses begin left to graze on public land and on roads..

jmreire

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Cut state child support after two kids. Limit social housing to two bedrooms regardless of number of kids. Within a decade you'll see a drop in numbers, while still being able to help genuine people.

Ah shure, we can't have that,,,have you not heard of the huge problems we face with a declining population??? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ruraldweller56

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dafuq you on about?

Sh1tting where they sleep, and a distinct lack of interest in the 500 greatest works of art is the first clue.

Not all yards are connected to grazing. As I said earlier, there are top-class trainers operating in this country with no, or almost no grazing available to them. It's a bit like claiming that a dog needs to live in a pack, or that keeping a dog indoors is cruel. It's a strange claim.

No.

That's Exactly what it's like.

knipex

knipex wrote: »

So a backyard is roofed, and dry with appropriate bedding ??
And the animal is getting appropriate exercise, veterinary care, food etc ?

Ponies live out all the time, all year round. A pony has no concept of what a garden is; the important things are that the animal has access to a fairly dry, well drained surface, some kind of wind shelter, water and is adequately fed, whether from roughage alone or with concentrates. Of course exercise is important, that goes without saying.

You people almost seem upset at the notion that there is no evidence that the animal is being mistreated. It's very strange, but then this whole obsession with MC and middle-aged men creeping on her Facebook page is all a bit unusual.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So traveller culture took away any other option for this woman except becoming a baby factory and career criminal and deprived her of the chance to he educated in any other way. That sounds truly awful , and we all have to suffer the consequences.

Would definitely be a culture the government should be clamping down on and trying to remove, could you imagine if they gave it a protected status or something mad like that...

Protected status or not they're not going to go near them. But yes, that's why she became what she is, that's what women do in that culture.

Thelonious Monk

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Cut state child support after two kids. Limit social housing to two bedrooms regardless of number of kids. Within a decade you'll see a drop in numbers, while still being able to help genuine people.

People like Mags wouldn't stop having kids. It's their culture to have sh*t loads of kids! Traveller women are baby factories, that's all they know and are encouraged to do. The more deprived the kids are the worse they'll be for society in the long run, I would have thought?
You're living in dream land if you ever think a Government in Ireland is going to cut child support after 2 kids, can you imagine the uproar? No point in posting fantasy solutions.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People like Mags wouldn't stop having kids. It's their culture to have sh*t loads of kids! Traveller women are baby factories, that's all they know and are encouraged to do. The more deprived the kids are the worse they'll be for society in the long run, I would have thought?
You're living in dream land if you ever think a Government in Ireland is going to cut child support after 2 kids, can you imagine the uproar? No point in posting fantasy solutions.

I hate that youre right but you are. Sadly child benefit and having enough kids that you cant possibly work is the greatest scam our welfare system has on offer. Id imagine a few more career criminals will be popped out over the coming years

Thelonious Monk

Yes. So therefore, education and social work with these women is really the only viable solution in this environment. But these women don't want to live any other way, so that's not really a solution either in reality. So all we can do is keep paying for it, there really isn't any other way! So no point sweating the small stuff, just live your life

knipex

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ponies live out all the time, all year round. A pony has no concept of what a garden is; the important things are that the animal has access to a fairly dry, well drained surface, some kind of wind shelter, water and is adequately fed, whether from roughage alone or with concentrates. Of course exercise is important, that goes without saying.

You people almost seem upset at the notion that there is no evidence that the animal is being mistreated. It's very strange, but then this whole obsession with MC and middle-aged men creeping on her Facebook page is all a bit unusual.

Are you genuinely arguing that a small garden in urban Tallaght is an appropriate location to keep a horse ?

Are you also arguing that someone on social welfare has sufficient funds to feed, shoe, provide appropriate medical for a horse ?

And finally are you arguing that public spaces in a housing testate are suitable for exercising a pony ?

Because unless you are then its animal cruelty plain and simple..

knipex

knipex wrote: »

Are you genuinely arguing that a small garden in urban Tallaght is an appropriate location to keep a horse ?

Are you also arguing that someone on social welfare has sufficient funds to feed, shoe, provide appropriate medical for a horse ?

And finally are you arguing that public spaces in a housing testate are suitable for exercising a pony ?

Because unless you are then its animal cruelty plain and simple..

No. I think a garden is unsuitable - it's unfair on neighbours and it is an inappropriate use of land that would not have been envisaged at the planning stages. That's a legal issue and a question of neighbourliness but it doesn't make it a cruelty issue.

I'd seriously doubt the ability of someone with a social welfare income to be able to adequately cover the costs of maintaining one or more ponies, but you lot seem adament that MC is rolling in money via the Exchequer, so it is you who must decide which your position is.

Ruraldweller56

I wonder why they got rid of their post where they said it was grand to keep ponies in the public space in a housing estate.

Ruraldweller56

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

No. I think a garden is unsuitable - it's unfair on neighbours and it is an inappropriate use of land that would not have been envisaged at the planning stages. That's a legal issue and a question of neighbourliness but it doesn't make it a cruelty issue.

I'd seriously doubt the ability of someone with a social welfare income to be able to adequately cover the costs of maintaining one or more ponies, but you lot seem adament that MC is rolling in money via the Exchequer, so it is you who must decide which your position is.

No, not rolling in it. Just getting €50,000 too much. And not enough to keep a pony in a taxpayers garden.

It's not rocket science.

corks finest

knipex wrote:

Are you also arguing that someone on social welfare has sufficient funds to feed, shoe, provide appropriate medical for a horse ?

knipex wrote:

Are you genuinely arguing that a small garden in urban Tallaght is an appropriate location to keep a horse ?

Agree,I've heard it all, anyone who thinks a bloody horse is ok to keep in an estate full of children/ aged and that the owner of said pony/ horse can afford to look after the welfare of her kids and pony on the dole is simply not in the real world,her relatives in knocknaheeney in Cork regularly dump/ abandon horses rather than pay a vets bill,most don't give a fig about animal welfare, might not be a popular statement but it's true

Ruraldweller56

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

No, not rolling in it. Just getting €50,000 too much. And not enough to keep a pony in a taxpayers garden.

It's not rocket science.

Clearly you think she has more than she needs. That means there is a surplus there which should cover the costs of a pony, even if it's only 5% more than she needs. I don't see how you can have it both ways, saying she's getting too much money, and that she can't afford to maintain some rough pony.

knipex

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

but you lot seem adament that MC is rolling in money via the Exchequer, so it is you who must decide which your position is.

Really ??

And can you show were I made this claim ?? or even insinuated it ??

I have made exactly 2 posts on this thread before this one. and in neither of those did I even mention MC.

If you cannot defend your argument without making crap up about me then you have already lost..

PostWoke

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dafuq you on about?

Sh1tting where they sleep, and a distinct lack of interest in the 500 greatest works of art is the first clue.

How do you know they show a lack of interest in the 500 greatest works of art? They can't really help where they poop, being imprisoned animals, or having eyes on the sides of their head, which might prevent them from appreciated art made by humans, but that is not the same argument as 'aesthetics' now is it?

Ulysses Gaze

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

No, not rolling in it. Just getting €50,000 too much. And not enough to keep a pony in a taxpayers garden.

It's not rocket science.

€54,000 and yet stealing €300 in clothing from Penneys because she "isn't getting enough money".

Yet has enough money for a pony.

Knock €20k off of that €54k straight away and let her cut her cloth on €34k.

knipex

knipex wrote: »

Really ??

And can you show were I made this claim ?? or even insinuated it ??

I have made exactly 2 posts on this thread before this one. and in neither of those did I even mention MC.

If you cannot defend your argument without making crap up about me then you have already lost..

"You lot" as in plural. Obviously if MC's social welfare income is only capable of stretching to support the needs of her family, then she has no business getting involved with ponies. But that negates any notion that her income is excessive.

Ruraldweller56

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Clearly you think she has more than she needs. That means there is a surplus there which should cover the costs of a pony, even if it's only 5% more than she needs. I don't see how you can have it both ways, saying she's getting too much money, and that she can't afford to maintain some rough pony.

She's getting too much money. Way too much. Just not enough to cover the costs of keeping a pony.

It's a bit like the way I make a decent enough wage but still can't afford a Bugatti.

This really isn't hard stuff to grasp.

knipex

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

"You lot" as in plural. Obviously if MC's social welfare income is only capable of stretching to support the needs of her family, then she has no business getting involved with ponies. But that negates any notion that her income is excessive.

I think you will find that I am singular, an individual, making my own arguments.

Ruraldweller56

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

She's getting too much money. Way too much. Just not enough to cover the costs of keeping a pony.

It's a bit like the way I make a decent enough wage but still can't afford a Bugatti.

This really isn't hard stuff to grasp.

Honestly, I would struggle to spend 5% of Cash's SW income per annum on a pony. Ours live out with cattle, and cost nothing bar trimming, a few worming doses, the cost of the occasional replacement rug and damn-all hay. Vet costs are almost nil because they're ponies, ie indestructible. It's not remotely comparable to a sports car.

Ruraldweller56

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Honestly, I would struggle to spend 5% of Cash's SW income per annum on a pony. Ours live out with cattle, and cost nothing bar trimming, a few worming doses, the cost of the occasional replacement rug and damn-all hay. Vet costs are almost nil because they're ponies, ie indestructible. It's not remotely comparable to a sports car.

I dam-all said it was.