One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

dxhound2005

pgj2015 wrote: »

i would Love to see a three strike rule here like they gave in the U.S

They have 10 times as many prisoners per head. We would need 40,000 prison spaces to match that. And be prepared to look after them from age 18 or 20 up to very old age. There are more and more geriatric prisoners in the USA than ever before, and they are looking at ways of reversing three strikes.

Mr. teddywinkles

tuxy wrote: »

Then they increase their level of crime to compensate, exactly what we need.

Then pump all that money into Garda resources. And refine the legal system for repeat offenders.

tuxy

Many of the people who are outraged that Margaret Cash is draining €50k a year of the tax payers money want to pay €100k a year to keep her in prison plus the many hundreds of thousands it will cost to re-home her children.

dxhound2005

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

Interesting that you note how the parts of their culture that are against the law are dealt with only "to an extent."

Travellers routinely get away with things that Revenue and the Gardai would absolutely crucify a settled person for.

Not what I see in the local paper court reports. And not borne out by the number of travellers in prison, far higher per head than the general population.

tayto lover

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Then pump all that money into Garda resources. And refine the legal system for repeat offenders.

Not enough prison spaces available and those that are there are for violent prisoners. Travellers form a big percentage of prisoners too.

tuxy

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Then pump all that money into Garda resources. And refine the legal system for repeat offenders.

But more prosecutions mean spending millions to build prisons and €100k per prisoner. Where will that money come from?

pgj2015

tuxy wrote: »

Many of the people who are outraged that Margaret Cash is draining €50k a year of the tax payers money want to pay €100k a year to keep her in prison plus the many hundreds of thousands it will cost to re-home her children.

yeah id be happy about that. for me id rather it cost the state a lot of money than let a minority of people behave like animals.

Mr. teddywinkles

tuxy wrote: »

But more prosecutions mean spending millions to build prisons and €100k per prisoner. Where will that money come from?

Build it and they will come forth my son. Maybe don't put in the old 55inch h Def there. Let's build them real lean and mean.

tuxy

pgj2015 wrote: »

yeah id be happy about that. for me id rather it cost the state a lot of money than let a minority of people behave like animals.

It's not just spending more, it would completely bankrupt the state unless we disbanded the HSE to compensate for the spending. What would you do with all the children of these people who are now in prison?

Fritzbox

tuxy wrote: »

But more prosecutions mean spending millions to build prisons and €100k per prisoner. Where will that money come from?

It's called providing security to the nation and giving peace of mind to all its citizens - fear of crime is almost as harmful as crime itself.

Are you suggesting that people who should be locked up for the security and safety of the nation's citizens should not, in fact, be locked up at all?

Austria!

It's a very self-centred view to only care about people like Margaret Cash to the tune of the 40 cents she's costing you individually. Knowing that she's getting so much for nothing is the problem. It's not right.

tuxy wrote: »

Many of the people who are outraged that Margaret Cash is draining €50k a year of the tax payers money want to pay €100k a year to keep her in prison plus the many hundreds of thousands it will cost to re-home her children.

Prison is a disincentive, a free house is an incentive.

Fritzbox

tuxy wrote: »

It's not just spending more, it would completely bankrupt the state unless we disbanded the HSE to compensate for the spending.

Where do you get your figures? Is there a credible website you can cite from?

Odelay

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ponies are Hardy creatures. They live outside most of the year on most farms, as long as they have a dry stand and ideally a rug, I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned.

The people who tend to abuse horses tend to be those with no experience of them. We sold a pony to the travellers years ago, still today I wouldn't think twice about it if I knew them. In fact, there's an obvious solution to lack of traveller participation in the workforce and that's to get them involved with racing yards and other equestrian sports from a young age.

Ah here, if you think it’s ok to keep a pony foal in a back garden in Tallaght, you’re seriously mistaken. No wonder you thought it fine to sell a pony to travelers.

HailSatan

Should we all be keeping Ponies in the back garden of modest urban homes?

tuxy

Fritzbox wrote: »

Where do you get your figures? Is there a credible website you can cite from?

Would you agree there are thousands of people like Margaret in this country, she's not unique.
Look up the average cost of a prisoner, the millions it costs to build new prisons then the cost of building and running state institutions to house all the children as it would be impossible to find foster care for that many children. We know the damage of having mass state institutions for young people but there is no other choice so you can also add the cost that it will do to the future generation of Ireland.

Fritzbox

tuxy wrote: »

Would you agree there are thousands of people like Margaret in this country, she's not unique.
Look up the average cost of a prisoner, the millions it costs to build new prisons then the cost of building and running state institutions to house all the children as it would be impossible to find foster care for that many children. We know the damage of having mass state institutions for young people but there is no other choice so you can also add the cost that it will do to the future generation of Ireland.

I suppose there are many people in the country just like Margaret - why would we lock up people like Margaret - because they have a string of criminal convictions, or because they give birth to a string of children and have no visible independent means of supporting them? I presume you are suggesting it's for the former reason, the criminal activity, as I would too.

I believe it's not actually possible to fine people who are on social welfare in courts for criminal convictions?

Orderofchaos

punisher5112 wrote: »

No she isn't, she will keep her mouth shut but unfortunately not her legs....

She is on the gravy train... No need to advertise this now she has it all.

So she wasn't really an advocate for the homeless and only out for herself??? I'm shocked and outraged.

punisher5112

Orderofchaos wrote: »

So she wasn't really an advocate for the homeless and only out for herself??? I'm shocked and outraged.

Why would she give a flute about anyone else, she wanted what she believes is her right and she ended up getting her way...
Amazing how such a little island can look after such scum.

Mad_maxx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

BattleCorp wrote: »

Oppressed by other travellers.

I didn't stop her from going to school. The State put up no impediment to her going to school. You didn't stop her from going to school and getting an education. In fact, if you are in your 40's, you probably chipped in for her to go to school.

Who oppressed her?

Traveller culture means she's uneducated and pregnant as a teen. What chance did she have really? What was she going to do, run away and make it on her own with no support network?

You mean the culture which RTE liberals gush over and defend to the hilt.

Mad_maxx

tuxy wrote: »

pgj2015 wrote: »

one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

Then they increase their level of crime to compensate, exactly what we need.

Tougher policing

Mad_maxx

tuxy wrote: »

Many of the people who are outraged that Margaret Cash is draining €50k a year of the tax payers money want to pay €100k a year to keep her in prison plus the many hundreds of thousands it will cost to re-home her children.

It's a necessary expense, the traveller menace will eventually overwhelm parts of the country

Kelsey Petite Buggy

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

Travellers routinely get away with things that Revenue and the Gardai would absolutely crucify a settled person for.

Without a shadow of a doubt. A quare hawk, or "tyrant" would dispute that in self-aggrandising fashion.

Wayne Jarvis

tuxy wrote: »

In fairness she probably will try to look after it but then end up feeding it pop tarts every morning.

I don't know about that. I know she gets a lot of money but have you seen the price of Pop Tarts these days? People should be more angry about the price of Pop Tarts than about Margaret Cash! :mad:

end of the road

pgj2015 wrote: »

one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

and there is never going to be anything to deterr the odd person who has 10+ kids, from doing so.
cutting child benefit after 2 kids can be done, but it will achieve nothing in reality in terms of the parents. it will likely cause the suffering of children however, which will ultimately cost us, quite likely more then paying the child benefit.

pgj2015 wrote: »

one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

and there is never going to be anything to deterr the odd person who has 10+ kids, from doing so.
cutting child benefit after 2 kids can be done, but it will achieve nothing in reality in terms of the parents. it will likely cause the suffering of children however, which will ultimately cost us, quite likely more then paying the child benefit.

Permabear II wrote: »

Interesting that you note how the parts of their culture that are against the law are dealt with only "to an extent."

Travellers routinely get away with things that Revenue and the Gardai would absolutely crucify a settled person for.

as a whole, no they don't. yes sometimes catching them will be harder due to the ability to move on quick but when and where there is sufficient evidence to catch them they do get dealt with. + we have a resourcing issue so i recognize some will be slipping through the cracks.

pgj2015 wrote: »

i would Love to see a three strike rule here like they gave in the U.S

that would likely be to expensive.
certainly people like murderers, rapists, and paedophiles should be kept in for life, even people who engage in other violent crime, but your average petty criminal would likely bring the costs up to an amount that would be beyond our ability to pay.

Larbre34

tuxy wrote: »

Many of the people who are outraged that Margaret Cash is draining €50k a year of the tax payers money want to pay €100k a year to keep her in prison plus the many hundreds of thousands it will cost to re-home her children.

I'd happily spend 500k on her and her like being kept in prison.

This kind of shythousery has to be made an example of. Those of us paying €40k in tax for a soft Government and an inept civil service to pyss away have to have some chink of optimism that we aren't deliberately being made total mugs of, that our compliance with the laws of the land and our hard work and our total lack of any handouts from the State aren't completely taken for granted and laughed at by Cash and her ilk.

Thelonious Monk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You mean the culture which RTE liberals gush over and defend to the hilt.

Yes that one, she was hardly going to grow up and work in Google or in Morkeshing

Odelay

Odelay wrote: »

Ah here, if you think it’s ok to keep a pony foal in a back garden in Tallaght, you’re seriously mistaken. No wonder you thought it fine to sell a pony to travelers.

Jesus Christ. Its like people really bristle when it's pointed out that something Margaret Cash did might not call for an hysterical reaction. It's like people love behing outraged and they hate if the idea of someone bursting their balloon.

I didn't say its OK to keep a pony in a garden in Tallaght. In some situations, it might be appropriate. Some of the jarveys' horses that drive tourists around the city are kept at the rear of buildings in places like Rathmines, Portobello, and the Liberties. Those are stabled, but a pony doesn't need stabling.

I think the biggest reason why keeping a pony in your back garden is daft is (a) don't you want a garden? and (b) the neighbours probably won't be happy. But if those aren't considerations, I suppose go ahead. I wouldn't do it, but neither is it cruel.

poisonated

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Jesus Christ. Its like people really bristle when it's pointed out that something Margaret Cash did might not call for an hysterical reaction. It's like people love behing outraged and they hate if the idea of someone bursting their balloon.

I didn't say its OK to keep a pony in a garden in Tallaght. In some situations, it might be appropriate. Some of the jarveys' horses that drive tourists around the city are kept at the rear of buildings in places like Rathmines, Portobello, and the Liberties. Those are stabled, but a pony doesn't need stabling.

I think the biggest reason why keeping a pony in your back garden is daft is (a) don't you want a garden? and (b) the neighbours probably won't be happy. But if those aren't considerations, I suppose go ahead. I wouldn't do it, but neither is it cruel.

To be fair, it is cruel. I’m pretty sure that if you ask an animal welfare group, they will tell you that horses need space.

poisonated

poisonated wrote: »

To be fair, it is cruel. I’m pretty sure that if you ask an animal welfare group, they will tell you that horses need space.

Well they better start by telling that to every trainer whose yard I've ever worked on where horses live in 15 square-meter boxes because they can't be allowed out on grass, partly because of risk of injury. Horses need to be able to exercise
They do not have some existential need for "space" so long as they have space to turn around, move and roll.

Again, not saying they should be kept in gardens in Tallaght, seems like an odd choice -- IF the pony is actually living there, it isn't in itself cruel. That's all.

poisonated

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Well they better start by telling that to every trainer whose yard I've ever worked on where horses live in 15 square-meter boxes because they can't be allowed out on grass, partly because of risk of injury. Horses need to be able to exercise
They do not have some existential need for "space" so long as they have space to turn around, move and roll.

Again, not saying they should be kept in gardens in Tallaght, seems like an odd choice -- IF the pony is actually living there, it isn't in itself cruel. That's all.

Just because some people do it doesn’t make it any less cruel. The suggested amount of space is about 2 acres.