Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Zubeneschamali

J Mysterio wrote: »

I mean they should have the guts to take a damn position on the biggest issue to face the UK since WWII.

You mean they should take YOUR position. It happens to be my position too, but clearly many delegates do not agree with our position.

Strazdas

Lengthy interview with Johnson on Ch. 4 News just now. Lots of flowery and evasive language but he says he still wants rid of the backstop and is determined to be out of EU by end of Oct, no matter what

J Mysterio

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You mean they should take YOUR position. It happens to be my position too, but clearly many delegates do not agree with our position.

No, I mean they should take A position. I thought I made that quite clear.

J Mysterio

Strazdas wrote: »

Lengthy interview with Johnson on Ch. 4 News just now. Lots of flowery and evasive language but he says he still wants rid of the backstop and is determined to be out of EU by end of Oct, no matter what

It's hugely depressing. Interminible.

I haven't had a chance to look into the Arcuri scandal stuff, but many seem to be indicating it's a resigning matter. That is in addition to those saying Boris will have to resign if it is found he 'lied to the Queen'.

I can't see him resigning. He would have to be forced out somehow. A vote of no confidence might serve his purpose though, so that is potentially out. Absoultely bizarre situation, proper twilight zone stuff.

Strazdas

J Mysterio wrote: »

It's hugely depressing. Interminible.

I haven't had a chance to look into the Arcuri scandal stuff, but many seem to be indicating it's a resigning matter. That is in addition to those saying Boris will have to resign if it is found he 'lied to the Queen'.

I can't see him resigning. He would have to be forced out somehow. A vote of no confidence might serve his purpose though, so that is potentially out. Absoultely bizarre situation, proper twilight zone stuff.

I can only guess he genuinely wants out of the EU, no matter what. He would hardly be gaslighting the Brexit section of the public to this extent so close to the Oct 31 deadline if that is not the plan.

J Mysterio

Strazdas wrote: »

I can only guess he genuinely wants out of the EU, no matter what. He would hardly be gaslighting the Brexit section of the public to this extent so close to the Oct 31 deadline if that is not the plan.

But could he be turfed out of office now from a scandal? I mean, take your pick.

You would have thought that in England of all places there would be no coming back from being found to have lied to the Queen. That said, in Brexit Britain nothing seems to be sacred anymore and no scandal is too damaging.

Strazdas

J Mysterio wrote: »

But could he be turfed out of office now from a scandal? I mean, take your pick.

You would have thought that in England of all places there would be no coming back from being found to have lied to the Queen. That said, in Brexit Britain nothing seems to be sacred anymore and no scandal is too damaging.

I do think he is going to lose the Supreme Court case too. That would be a quite devastating setback for any normal government but these are crazy times.

Itssoeasy

J Mysterio wrote: »

More smoke and mirrors bollocks.

Corbyn goes on about the need for certainty and clarity and then refuses to take a position on the #1 issue of our day. It's unimaginably cowardly. He is hugely dishonest.

Why cant he say what he believes in and argue for that? Because he doesnt think he can take people with him?

You could count English politicians with integrity on the fingers of your hands.

Whether you agree with the lib dems or not, at least they've had a consistent position of brexit. It may not help them electorally in the end but they've picked a path and are sticking to it.

If he doesn't think he can take people who may not have the same view as his then he's not PM material. Isn't the very thing you said one of the main things a politcal leader should do ?

Fr Tod Umptious

Strazdas wrote: »

I do think he is going to lose the Supreme Court case too. That would be a quite devastating setback for any normal government but these are crazy times.

British politics has gone to hell in a hand basket.

There was a time when you had political scandals here in Ireland with ministers refusing to resign and leaders refusing to sack them, one would look to the UK where politicians fell on their sword or got the boot in short order from the leader.

But now it's so different.
PM getting the chance to lost a major vote in parliament three times.
MPs voting against the whip without sanction.
A leader with scandals following him, lying to the queen etc.

It's cat really.
Where will it end.

Itssoeasy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

J Mysterio wrote: »

I mean they should have the guts to take a damn position on the biggest issue to face the UK since WWII.

You mean they should take YOUR position. It happens to be my position too, but clearly many delegates do not agree with our position.

No J Mysterio like many others on this thread want Jeremy Corbyn to **** or get off the pot in regards to brexit. He has designs on being PM doesnt he ?

A Shropshire Lad

Strazdas wrote: »

Lengthy interview with Johnson on Ch. 4 News just now. Lots of flowery and evasive language but he says he still wants rid of the backstop and is determined to be out of EU by end of Oct, no matter what

I just watched that.
Gary might as well have interviewed the plant behind Boris

Sierra Oscar

The thinly veiled threats continue.

https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1176233272856256512

maynooth_rules

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The thinly veiled threats continue.

https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1176233272856256512

Completely oblivious to the fact that trade works both ways. They really are going the right way about becoming a pariah state

lawred2

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The thinly veiled threats continue.

https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1176233272856256512

the self importance knows no bounds

Akrasia

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The thinly veiled threats continue.

https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1176233272856256512

Thinly veiled threat to the children of Britain. If there's a No Deal there'll be no toy for christmas

Genius

Strazdas

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The thinly veiled threats continue.

https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1176233272856256512

I'd love to know what the end game is here and who these tweets are actually aimed at.

josip

I think it's obvious that the advertisements designed not to get a deal but to prevent the EU from granting an extension.
They are trying to provoke one of the EU countries into vetoing an extension request on October 31st, should it arrive.

briany

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1176174122310754305

"leadership".

Honestly, **** Corbyn.

"What do we want??!

Um.

When do we want it??!

Yes."

10000maniacs

Keir Starmer on Newsnight now struggling to defend Corbyn's strategy of election and referendum.
Labour are going to come a poor third in the next general election.

Capt'n Midnight

Enzokk wrote: »

So essentially it comes down to how the UK will treat Spanish citizens post Brexit, that will determine how their citizens are treated in Spain.

Rinse and repeat for every EU country.


25 different sets of rules for UK citizens who want to stay for longer than a work/holiday visa will allow. And good luck if you want to travel to another EU country.
Because every country has full control of immigration from outside the EU.

There's 26 different set of rules for citizenship, some won't allow you to hold dual nationality, like Spain. So any "expat" that went down that route might get rejected for UK citizenship if they tried to switch back again later.

volchitsa

10000maniacs wrote: »

Keir Starmer on Newsnight now struggling to defend Corbyn's strategy of election and referendum.
Labour are going to come a poor third in the next general election.

TBF the notion of rocking up to the EU negotiating team to ask them to reopen negotiations for a new deal which you have announced in advance that you are not actually going to support to get it passed in the UK is frankly stunning in its stupidity.

Why exactly would the EU agree to bother? What'd be the point? There is already a deal that Labour won't support, why negotiate another?

10000maniacs

volchitsa wrote: »

TBF the notion of rocking up to the EU negotiating team to ask them to reopen negotiations for a new deal which you have announced in advance that you are not actually going to support to get it passed in the UK is frankly stunning in its stupidity.

Why exactly would the EU agree to bother? What'd be the point? There is already a deal that Labour won't support, why negotiate another?

Corbyn makes it so easy for Johnson and the ERG and on the opposite side, the Lib Dems to pick holes in Labours strategy. I agree, it is pure stupidity. You can already hear the pitter patter of Labour voters going over to the Lib Dems.

Tell me how

10000maniacs wrote: »

Corbyn makes it so easy for Johnson and the ERG and on the opposite side, the Lib Dems to pick holes in Labours strategy. I agree, it is pure stupidity. You can already hear the pitter patter of Labour voters going over to the Lib Dems.

I'd say odds on the next government being a Tory one shortened considerably today.

SeaBreezes

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The thinly veiled threats continue.

https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1176233272856256512

Now they are taking toys off kids for xmas..

https://mobile.twitter.com/blackyellowbrd
The Associated Press
"BREAKING: UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson says Iran is responsible for Saudi oil-industry attacks and the UK could join US-led military effort"
Be aware,
be scared,
above all,
be ready to resist.
#NotInMyName


Remember when I said they would go to war to distract? Groundwork being laid..

Capt'n Midnight

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The thinly veiled threats continue.

https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1176233272856256512

Toys, Games, Sports Requisites account for 2.5% of the Czech Republic exports to the United Kingdom. Toys would account for some fraction of that, so maybe 1.5%


Also UK warehouses are full of Brexit stockpiling. Stuff from China takes weeks so more reliant on warehouse space than stuff that could otherwise be trucked from a more Pragmatic location in a day.

Bannasidhe

volchitsa wrote: »

TBF the notion of rocking up to the EU negotiating team to ask them to reopen negotiations for a new deal which you have announced in advance that you are not actually going to support to get it passed in the UK is frankly stunning in its stupidity.

Why exactly would the EU agree to bother? What'd be the point? There is already a deal that Labour won't support, why negotiate another?

I actually think it's a decent stragety - but one I am not sure an electorate used to being spoon fed and seemingly incapable of doing any deep thinking is prepared for.

The Tories are gung-ho Leave whatever the cost (now that the dissenters have been purged).
The Lib Dems are Remain, Remain, Remain.

BUT - the British electorate is split nearly down the middle.

The Remainiacs (:p) know what they want. That's easy.
But the Leavers aren't 100% sure - there is nuance there. Some want No Deal sure but others would like to leave by some method other than ramming the whole economy into a wall.

So - negotiate a deal that isn't beholden to placating hardline Tories and the DUP. Rub out May's red lines.

Aim for a compromise that makes no body completely happy but the majority can live with. Enough of a separation that Leave can grudgingly vote for it (hard liner notwithstanding), enough ties that Remainers can still feel a teeny bit 'European'.

A fudge deal to reflect a close vote in the first referendum.

Then go to the country and say to the electorate this is up to you.

This is the best deal we can get -it will deliver this, this, and this as we wanted but we have to compromise on that and no way are we getting t'udder.
What we will do under this deal is leave the EU.

or we can Remain.

The government is not going to try and persuade you, the electorate, either way.
We are not going to cajole, bully, spread fear or hope.
We are going the simply give you the two options and allow all you adults to decide for yourselves. Like proper grown up adults.

Tell me how

Apparently efforts to return Thomas Cook holiday makers is the largest peacetime repatriation every held in the UK.
150K travellers worldwide.
Is this the Dunkirk spirit Mark Francois was calling for?

ballsymchugh

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I actually think it's a decent stragety - ...

it probably is, as there's no hope of labour getting a majority after an election unless something freaky happens. just like the lib dems, the pre election promise won't make it out of any coalition/confidence and supply discussion. i doubt Corbyn would make it out the far side of them either tbh.

but all the research will show that labour leavers won't support any other party. they're more die hard labour supporters than leavers. labour will lose more to the lib dems than they will to brexit or tories.

J Mysterio

Tell me how wrote: »

Apparently efforts to return Thomas Cook holiday makers is the largest peacetime repatriation every held in the UK.
150K travellers worldwide.
Is this the Dunkirk spirit Mark Francois was calling for?

'Operation Matterhorn' apparently. I wonder is it actually the plans to 'repatriate' UK citizens in the event of a No Deal crashout, but they are now being applied in this, as a sort of learning experience. Why else would this all be ready to go to save a private holiday company. Also, i've seend it said that the money involved in the effort is four times what it would cost to save TC.

fr336

J Mysterio wrote: »

'Operation Matterhorn' apparently. I wonder is it actually the plans to 'repatriate' UK citizens in the event of a No Deal crashout, but they are now being applied in this, as a sort of learning experience. Why else would this all be ready to go to save a private holiday company. Also, i've seend it said that the money involved in the effort is four times what it would cost to save TC.

Nah, this is standard practice. The CAA laid on rescue flights for Monarch passengers too.