Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Stop moaning ffs

EU statement. They’re not having this nonsense from Cummings

https://twitter.com/williamsjon/status/1181525962204299266?s=21

Tell me how

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Agreed. But if you look at it from a No Deal Brexiteer perspective, i.e. unicorns, rainbows and lies, it would look like bias.

Emily Maitlis and Emma Barnet often host and neither would seem to be pro-Brexit, if anything, on her radio show, Emma comes across as pro-remain.

To be fair to Maitlis, I think she hides whatever leaning she holds very well. Very good presenter and journalist.

Professor Moriarty

Tell me how wrote: »

Emily Maitlis and Emma Barnet often host and neither would seem to be pro-Brexit, if anything, on her radio show, Emma comes across as pro-remain.

I think their interrogation of Brexiteers is very obviously more robust than that of Remainers. I'd include Kirsty Wark in that list too.

spacecoyote

lawred2 wrote: »

Is movement of 1p that remarkable?

A 1p movement in currency trading markets for major currencies would be seen as a significant move generally, yes.

The major currency pairs would trade in pips, rather than pence. A pip being 1/100 of a penny, so a move from 1.1101 to 1.1102 would be a single price movement.

Generally moves in the "pence" part of the quote would be seen as psychologically significant and tend to generate increased volume of trading once they break.

Kermit.de.frog

NI secretary just sent a shot across Cumming's bow

https://twitter.com/JulianSmithUK/status/1181524619959963648

Harry Palmr

More on the reaction to the No 10 version of events

https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1181525018179706880


and reaction inside the wider Tory parliamentary tent

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1181522327097544707

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1181522787707564033

Patser

You can feel.the frustration in Tusk at all this messing- despite his warnings, and requests not to waste time. You get the feeling he is getting close to just pulling the plug on it all, and getting the EU to just initiate plan No Deal

Professor Moriarty

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

NI secretary just sent a shot across Cumming's bow

https://twitter.com/JulianSmithUK/status/1181524619959963648

It's also not in the interests of your nearest and dearest neighbour, Julian.

LeinsterDub

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I really, really hope Angela Merkel releases the transcripts of the calls. It would be pretty funny if she sued whoever published that shít for defamation.

That's all part of the plan. "How dare she release the call when the incorrect version came from a unknown leak who we are attempting to track down now!"

NotToScale

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Agreed. But if you look at it from a No Deal Brexiteer perspective, i.e. unicorns, rainbows and lies, it would look like bias.

That's the problem though with the whole way the BBC has gone. They've more concerned about giving equal weighting to both sides of every argument than actually probing statements and checking facts.

If you look at what happened when Naga Munchetty called out what she saw as racism for example, it shows the rabbit hole of absolute neutrality that they've gone down.

Incidentally RTE, and more so the BAI, weren't much better during the run up to the marriage referendum. Journalism and broadcasting needs the freedom to probe and analyze.

If you look at the UK you've the BBC being regulated to death while the newspapers might as well be political propaganda rags in most cases (and not just Tory ones). Yet, the focus is all on controlling the BBC, an organisation that saw journalism much like an academic might see their work.

It would be like saying they if you were writing a thesis on say a vaccine for some deadly disease that you also had do consider the work of some person in rural Texas who thinks rubbing moss on your forehead cures whooping cough.

Stop moaning ffs

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

NI secretary just sent a shot across Cumming's bow

https://twitter.com/JulianSmithUK/status/1181524619959963648

Lot of commentators saying ‘resignation watch’ is back on.

Professor Moriarty

NotToScale wrote: »

That's the problem though with the whole way the BBC has gone. They've more concerned about giving equal weighting to both sides of every argument than actually probing statements and checking facts.

If you look at what happened when Naga Munchetty called out what she saw as racism for example, it shows the rabbit hole of absolute neutrality that they've gone down.

Incidentally RTE, and more so the BAI, weren't much better during the run up to the marriage referendum. Journalism and broadcasting needs the freedom to probe and analyze.

If you look at the UK you've the BBC being regulated to death while the newspapers might as well be political propaganda rags in most cases (and not just Tory ones). Yet, the focus is all on controlling the BBC, an organisation that saw journalism much like an academic might see their work.

That's the free market. Tory papers can write lies and so they do. They're no longer accountable. Here's the thing, if people stopped reading the lies then the papers wouldn't exist. But they keep on reading them and believing the lies. And then they vote according to those lies. So, ultimately, they deserve what they get.

NotToScale

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That's the free market. Tory papers can write lies and so they do. They're no longer accountable. Here's the thing, if people stopped reading the lies then the papers wouldn't exist. But they keep on reading them and believing the lies. And then they vote according to those lies. So, ultimately, they deserve what they get.

That's not my point. Rather that the focus of discussion is always on the one aspect of the British media that is extremely professional, thoughtful and thorough in what it does and all that it's doing is opening up more and more space for people who absolutely do not have those high objectives.

The BBC has definitely been over regulated and neutered by a combination of those often well meaning people, who are fixated on rather crude measures of neutrality and a government that could do without having a well resourced broadcasting organisation holding its feet to the fire.

trellheim

Props to Julian Smith for having a backbone. Looks like an NI minister who actually gives a fk


(this tweet means a lot to me personally )

https://twitter.com/JulianSmithUK/status/1180622408962719744

Have to laugh at them all having to give their phones up going into cabinet

Edit : his twitter feed reminds me 21st October is same-sex marriage , abortion and victims pensions date in Northern Ireland if the Executive is not back up and running. Anybody want to comment on if the DUP will feel squeezed although prob off topic

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-the-law-in-northern-ireland

Professor Moriarty

NotToScale wrote: »

That's not my point. Rather that the focus of discussion is always on the one aspect of the British media that is extremely professional, thoughtful and thorough in what it does and all that it's doing is opening up more and more space for people who absolutely do not have those high objectives.

The BBC has definitely been over regulated and neutered by a combination of those often well meaning people, who are fixated on rather crude measures of neutrality and a government that could do without having a well resourced broadcasting organisation holding its feet to the fire.

It was my point though. To your point. I don't agree that the BBC is neutered. I watch Newsnight on a regular basis and I've seen people grilled thoroughly and quite often with obvious bias. Ditto Andrew Neil and, to a lesser extent, Marr. Question Time is a pantomime. In fact, Newsnight is much more robust than any program on Sky (a commercial station) with the possible exception of Sophy Ridge at times.

Again, the free market in the media will throw up the likes of The Telegraph, Mail and Express. They are rags, but libel aside, they can print what they like. That's just how it is.

fash

LeinsterDub wrote: »

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I really, really hope Angela Merkel releases the transcripts of the calls. It would be pretty funny if she sued whoever published that shít for defamation.

That's all part of the plan. "How dare she release the call when the incorrect version came from a unknown leak who we are attempting to track down now!"

Should be done as a "we are willing to release transcripts if Johnson allows".

lawred2

spacecoyote wrote: »

A 1p movement in currency trading markets for major currencies would be seen as a significant move generally, yes.

The major currency pairs would trade in pips, rather than pence. A pip being 1/100 of a penny, so a move from 1.1101 to 1.1102 would be a single price movement.

Generally moves in the "pence" part of the quote would be seen as psychologically significant and tend to generate increased volume of trading once they break.

I'm not speaking in general terms... GBP has been fluctuating in pence quite frequently these last few months

MrMusician18

Leroy42 wrote: »

How can LauraK justify sending out totally one sided and uncoberated tweets?

No checking of accuracy, no checking for multiple sources. Did she even reach out to Katya (for example) for her reading of it?

It is highly dangerous the way she is carrying.

Laura K should've been sacked a long time ago. It's quite clear that she's enjoying being at the heart of power and is clearly clouding her reporting of the story. Laura's stories always seem to revolve around unnamed sources and rumours rather than hard facts. Gossip over substance.

Katya hasn't been much better for delivering a European perspective. Clearly, her spices are almost entirely British within the institutions and they've been left in the cold so she had long resorted to tropes about the EU cobbling together a fudge at the last minute. She failed to recognize that the fudges are always for internal disputes and had walked away from negotiations with third parties in the past.

In five, ten years when considered history books are written, the BBC won't come out of this looking great.

Tell me how

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Laura K should've been sacked a long time ago. It's quite clear that she's enjoying being at the heart of power and is clearly clouding her reporting of the story. Laura's stories always seem to revolve around unnamed sources and rumours rather than hard facts. Gossip over substance.

Katya hasn't been much better for delivering a European perspective. Clearly, her spices are almost entirely British within the institutions and they've been left in the cold so she had long resorted to tropes about the EU cobbling together a fudge at the last minute. She failed to recognize that the fudges are always for internal disputes and had walked away from negotiations with third parties in the past.

In five, ten years when considered history books are written, the BBC won't come out of this looking great.

The books written in 5/10 years etc will at least in some proportion by people working for the BBC right now.

prawnsambo

Tell me how wrote: »

The books written in 5/10 years etc will at least in some proportion by people working for the BBC right now.

Well unless she deletes them, Laura's tweets will be there as the trail of broken car parts leading up to one impact with reality after another.

CelticRambler

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Merkel has denied it. And now tusk with this. Whatever Boris and Cummings we’re trying is blowing up in their faces

Fits a pattern! :P

I can't see how any future trading partner watching this carry-on from the British would be reassured about a Tory government's sincerity in negotiations. Given that those other countries will already have satisfactory FTAs in place with much of the rest of the world (including the EU), they'd be well advised to reply to any approach from the British with a statement "Thank your for your call; please put your suggestions in writing so that we can forward them to the relevant department; we will issue a reply within 28 days months."

J Mysterio

Coveney concurs with Tusk, as well he might.

https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/1181529555397480452

J Mysterio

Just look at this from LK's latest article:

Ministers hoped their proposals might get a fair hearing from the EU. But there is frustration that this just doesn't appear to have happened.

One senior source told me the talks are "meant to be a dialogue, not a question and answer session", suggesting that rather than getting down to business, the EU is simply tying up the UK's negotiators by making query after query after query.

Sources say the EU ought to listen "to the people who won the referendum, not the people who lost".

And there's a warning from this end that they will make a "historic miscalculation", if they expect saying no now will lead to calmer times ahead.

Seriously?

trellheim

Oh dear



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGWuWYXU4AAzUmU.png:large

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1181542541583273985


walk that back then

J Mysterio

****ing hell. Disgraceful.

Tell me how

Is today the day (the latest one of them) where the walls of diplomacy are finally crashing to the ground. Seems like an awful lot of barely concealed frustration to outright disgust is coming from a lot of key figures.

A Deal is impossible between now and the end of the month, I think that much is certain.

An Claidheamh

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

We know Laura isn’t exactly impartial journalistically speaking but an interesting thread. ‘Sources’ (eyeroll) tell her (I’m weirdly specific detail, Johnson back to calling Merkel this morning only to be told what he’s been told repeatedly before. And he resorts to petty threats and blame.
I’m come to the conclusion it’s not that they’re acting in bad faith, Johnson and co simply don’t understand how any of this works at all.


https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1181495898431528960?s=21

"@LouiseMensch
LeoVaradkar
will go down as the least popular Taioseach in Irish history. Unless he defies the EU himself. Again, either is fine with me."


Why oh why do I keep clicking onto twitter replies thinking the British come to their senses!!!!

This wan, who I thought was a serious writer, thinks a hard border is Leo Varadkar's idea, that the EU is" annexing" British (but actually Irish) territory and that he's unpopular because ignorant jingoistic Brits don't like him..... that would make him unpopular in Ireland how....?

No response by these clowns.

We seriously have to think about saving NI from Brexit Britain.

Grounding their flights doesn't sound so crazy anymore, and Varadkar should not be picking fights with Sinn Féin.

They WILL break the GFA!
They WILL blame someone else!
There must be consequences.

MrMusician18

Tell me how wrote: »

Is today the day (the latest one of them) where the walls of diplomacy are finally crashing to the ground. Seems like an awful lot of barely concealed frustration to outright disgust is coming from a lot of key figures.

A Deal is impossible between now and the end of the month, I think that much is certain.

It's actually looking worse than that. It's looking like a deal with this government won't be possible at any time.

This is especially worrisome if they are returned again after the election.

Mefistofelino

trellheim wrote: »

Oh dear



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGWuWYXU4AAzUmU.png:large

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1181542541583273985


walk that back then

The irony is that both Brexit and WW2 required massive Russian assistance

lawred2

That's disgusting... I can't believe how deflated I am to see that. Even given the context of the last three years - I'm still saddened and deflated.