Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Hurrache

Hang on guys, Bridgen has just given the game away! Ireland is meeting with the UK to form our joint plan for leaving!

I've taken the hit for clicking through to the piece of crap so you don't have to!
[url] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1188698/Brexit-News-Andrew-Bridgen-final-countdown-podcast-Daily-Express-Ireland-EU-update-latest[/url]

Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen joined Brexit the Final Countdown host Rebecca Hutson and Daily Express senior political correspondent, Martyn Brown, to discuss the prospect of a no deal and the future of the Tory party. During the episode, the prominent Brexiteer revealed which country he thought would follow the UK out of the EU and listed the reasons why. He said: “I still think that the Republic of Ireland will be the next country to leave the European Union after us despite all this.

We’ll have a free trade deal with America. They won’t be able to join in which is going to be desperately uncomfortable for them with the US being their biggest trading partner.

“The Republic of Ireland has done very well since the huge crash in 2008, they’ve dropped their corporation tax to around about 10 percent.
.....
The MP added: “Ireland will be the only English-speaking nation left in the UK.

“They represent one percent of that population.

“They will have very little voting power without us as their ally in the EU.

“Ireland’s out in the Atlantic, it doesn’t border another EU state.”

ancapailldorcha

Mod: I've had to issue sanctions for below standard posts and use of insults. Please cut it out as it is not acceptable here. There are only so many warnings that can be given.

L1011

“Ireland’s out in the Atlantic, it doesn’t border another EU state.”


Not bordering another EU state is something Greece, Cyprus and Malta seem to have no issues with.

ZeroThreat

L1011 wrote: »

“Ireland’s out in the Atlantic, it doesn’t border another EU state.”


Not bordering another EU state is something Greece, Cyprus and Malta seem to have no issues with.

Oddly enough, when someone points out to a staunch brexiteer the folly of turning their back on an entire continent just 20 miles away, they always reply that geographic distances are irrelevant given modern technology, and that there's a 'big wide world out there, full of nations just waiting for us to strike big beautiful trade deals with'..:D

Edit : Btw, I'm pretty sure Greece has an EU border.

Hurrache

I also think Malta may be in the EU and speak English.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

“Ireland’s out in the Atlantic, it doesn’t border another EU state.”


Not bordering another EU state is something Greece, Cyprus and Malta seem to have no issues with.

Whilst it's causing chaos for them to be bordering one.

The UK, Ireland, and Portugal are the closest to the US in time difference. Not a huge point, but it is a bit of a benefit to multinationals.

darem93

The MP added: “Ireland will be the only English-speaking nation left in the UK.

I take it this was a misprint and they meant to say the in the EU, but you just never know with this shower.

ste

Hurrache wrote: »

Hang on guys, Bridgen has just given the game away! Ireland is meeting with the UK to form our joint plan for leaving!

I've taken the hit for clicking through to the piece of crap so you don't have to!
[url] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1188698/Brexit-News-Andrew-Bridgen-final-countdown-podcast-Daily-Express-Ireland-EU-update-latest[/url]

[url] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1188698/Brexit-News-Andrew-Bridgen-final-countdown-podcast-Daily-Express-Ireland-EU-update-latest[/url][/quote]

It seems you could those arguments & use then to support how important Ireland is as a base to sell into the EU.
Easily accessed from USA via air. V short comfortable commute from airport into Dublin CC. 'only' native English speakers in EU (altho plenty in Benelux & other Euro countries offering English workplaces). Whatever happens Corp Tax we will keep it as most competitive in EU. We've a string multilingual community here (we must solve housing cost crisis). We've top hotels.

Already while in the EU28 more companies were setting up a UK trading base (tax reasons, substance), so while we will lose some biz to UK, I think we'll win so companies who'll use Ireland as gateway to EU27.

My 2p & 2c

ancapailldorcha

Hurrache wrote: »

I also think Malta may be in the EU and speak English.

If Brexit happens, Malta will be the only officially English-speaking EU member state.

spacecoyote

The MP added: “Ireland will be the only English-speaking nation left in the UK.

Is he supposed to he pointing this out as a disadvantage?

We'll now be the only country with direct access to the largest single market with english as a first language. If anything it adds the scope for growth of business significantly from outside of the eurozone

L1011

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Edit : Btw, I'm pretty sure Greece has an EU border.

I forgot Bulgaria joined (all of 12 years ago!)

It was very isolated from when it first joined until the 2004 expansion.

Jim2007

spacecoyote wrote: »

Is he supposed to he pointing this out as a disadvantage?

We'll now be the only country with direct access to the largest single market with english as a first language. If anything it adds the scope for growth of business significantly from outside of the eurozone

Pretty much everyone under the age of 30 in the EU speak English to about B1 level... not much of an advantage.

prawnsambo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Eventually being the operative word here.

Yes eventually we will see less landbridge traffic between Ireland and Europe but in the coming months with the whole thing still very much up in the air those involved in logistics would be doing very well to engineer a seamless transition.

You keep saying this despite all the evidence to the contrary being posted over and over again. It's over a year since the EU realigned the freight corridor to Ireland to eliminate the landbridge. In that time, new ferries and routes have been tasked. Below are just three of the sailing schedules from Europe from one ferry company. Today, eight ferries coming direct from European ports will dock in Dublin. And two additional routes have been opened from France since the realignment. The latest from Le Havre.












That's eight RoRo sailings direct from European ports a week. Just with CLdN. And that's not all their sailings either. And just to Dublin Port.

Fr Tod Umptious

prawnsambo wrote: »

You keep saying this despite all the evidence to the contrary being posted over and over again. It's over a year since the EU realigned the freight corridor to Ireland to eliminate the landbridge. In that time, new ferries and routes have been tasked. Below are just three of the sailing schedules from Europe from one ferry company. Today, eight ferries coming direct from European ports will dock in Dublin. And two additional routes have been opened from France since the realignment. The latest from Le Havre.












That's eight RoRo sailings direct from European ports a week. Just with CLdN. And that's not all their sailings either. And just to Dublin Port.

Anyone who thinks there will not be massive disruption in the supply of goods to and from Ireland in the short term after a no deal Brexit are diluded.

You sound like a Brexiteer yelling "project fear".

prawnsambo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Anyone who thinks there will not be massive disruption in the supply of goods to and from Ireland in the short term after a no deal Brexit are diluded.

You sound like a Brexiteer yelling "project fear".

I'm offering facts. You're the one standing on the sideline yelling about the world coming to an end, without any facts whatsoever. The alternative routes are there and have been there for some time. Over a year in fact. Companies importing goods from Europe don't tell the freight forwarders what routes to take. They just look for the best price/quickest route available. No freight forwarder would risk the landbridge after brexit day because they have no idea how long it would take. If it's driver accompanied, the driver could hit their tachograph limit and have to stop; adding more cost. If RoRo with local drivers, would there be any available or would they be all stuck in queues in Dover or in a holding pattern at an airfield in Kent?

Nobody in the freight business is going to use the landbridge. And they're not stupid. There are alternatives and they're readily available. It's their business to know that.

J Mysterio

Johnson and Varadkar arriving to 'secret' Cheshire meeting.

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1182246280698961922
https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1182251476640382977?s=20

I guess we won't be getting statements.

A statement issued by the Government Information Services said the two leaders at the centre of Brexit negotiations will meet tomorrow in the "North West of England".

"The meeting will be private to allow both leaders and their teams to have detailed discussions about the process for securing agreement for a Brexit deal," the statement read.

Irish Independent

You would have to think this is a pivotal meeting for the whole Brexit process. A make or break moment for agreement.

ArmaniJeanss

Jim2007 wrote: »

Pretty much everyone under the age of 30 in the EU speak English to about B1 level... not much of an advantage.

I always thought our slight advantage re the English language when dealing with America was that (whilst everyone in the EU can pretty much converse in English as you say) we are able to socialize, joke, do irony, gossip etc at a level that most EU people can't.

robinph

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's eight RoRo sailings direct from European ports a week. Just with CLdN. And that's not all their sailings either. And just to Dublin Port.

Just taking the most extreme example from Spain to Dublin, and obviously tacographs and sailing times will throw in a few extra hours, but Google Maps gives a time of 22 hours for the drive through France and the UK, or you spend 4+ days on a boat. The lorry and driver could easily do a two way trip in the time it takes to go one way on the boat, including a day off for some sight seeing at the other end.

Professor Moriarty

J Mysterio wrote: »

Johnson and Varadkar arriving to 'secret' Cheshire meeting.

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1182246280698961922
https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1182251476640382977?s=20

I guess we won't be getting statements.



You would have to think this is a pivotal meeting for the whole Brexit process. A make or break moment for agreement.

One thing is certain. An 'unnamed source in No. 10" will disclose the contents of the meeting and it will be spun to suit the Tory blame agenda.

prawnsambo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I always thought our slight advantage re the English language when dealing with America was that (whilst everyone in the EU can pretty much converse in English as you say) we are able to socialize, joke, do irony, gossip etc at a level that most EU people can't.

It's more that the legal system is written in English. Manuals, signs and pretty much everything that people would interact with are in English.

Sam Russell

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I always thought our slight advantage re the English language when dealing with America was that (whilst everyone in the EU can pretty much converse in English as you say) we are able to socialize, joke, do irony, gossip etc at a level that most EU people can't.

The Americans do not do irony.

However, we do have pre-clearance for travel to USA. I don't think anywhere else in Europe has this.

I reckon it's going to be an Irish sea border, or the double majority idea that was floated by the media.

No Irish PM could sign off on a guaranteed border after x amount of years. It would be an absurd development contrary to years of what's been said by everyone in the EU.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

I reckon it's going to be an Irish sea border, or the double majority idea that was floated by the media.

No Irish PM could sign off on a guaranteed border after x amount of years. It was be an absurd development contrary to years of what's been said by everyone in the EU.

There is no way any Irish Gov could agree to any 'double majority' or any such idea where there is a tribal head count in NI deciding events. If you want trouble, then that is how you seed it.

Why not build in a border poll into the deal? That would at least solve the whole problem if it passed.

prawnsambo

robinph wrote: »

Just taking the most extreme example from Spain to Dublin, and obviously tacographs and sailing times will throw in a few extra hours, but Google Maps gives a time of 22 hours for the drive through France and the UK, or you spend 4+ days on a boat. The lorry and driver could easily do a two way trip in the time it takes to go one way on the boat, including a day off for some sight seeing at the other end.

But those RoRo trips from Santander are not driver accompanied. They generally use local drivers, drop the trailer/container at the port and a specialist tractor unit hauls it onto the ship. At the other end, the same thing happens. So drivers aren't sitting on the ship for four days. It's far more cost-effective, if slower.

And the 22 hours that Google gives you, does not include mandatory rest breaks. Maximum 9 hours driving and 11 hours rest (there are exceptions, but not significant here), so your 22 hours driving would take 9 + 11 + 9 + 11 + 4 hours (assuming you've factored in the lower speed limits for HGVs) giving a total of 44 hours transit time. Some of that rest time could be taken on the short ferry crossings, but they may not coincide fully.

An Ciarraioch

Interesting Budget aside noted by Dan O'Brien - it's projected that customs revenue will rise fourfold next year, predictably from the UK, and the €1 billion extra would form a significant proportion of our EU budget contribution:

https://twitter.com/danobrien20/status/1181944385962942466

Hurrache

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

One thing is certain. An 'unnamed source in No. 10" will disclose the contents of the meeting and it will be spun to suit the Tory blame agenda.

Laura K already has the draft tweet saved.

Hurrache

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I reckon it's going to be an Irish sea border, or the double majority idea that was floated by the media.

No Irish PM could sign off on a guaranteed border after x amount of years. It would be an absurd development contrary to years of what's been said by everyone in the EU.

It won't be double majority, all parties up north came out against it.

J Mysterio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I reckon it's going to be an Irish sea border, or the double majority idea that was floated by the media.

No Irish PM could sign off on a guaranteed border after x amount of years. It would be an absurd development contrary to years of what's been said by everyone in the EU.

I could live with either of those outcomes.

I still think that Johnson is only fighting for an election though, and not for a deal.

I wonder might Johnson say 'look Leo, I'm going to be a bastard right up untill the election, then when I have my majority, we'll go with the sea border, alright?'

fergiesfolly

Work for an American multinational.
We get audited by US, European agencies amongst others and even though the European visitors have very good English, there is always a nuance missing from the conversations. The interactions are always smoother with the Americans and they prefer their visits here to other EU countries. We certainly have a language advantage.
On the transport costs and speed. Brexit will certainly have an impact. Our company started looking into direct sailings to Holland /France early last year and we're worried at the extra expense and time delay at the time. Things have improved considerably in the meantime and the impact won't be nearly as damaging.

Water John

Well it could, like a border poll, be left up to the NI Secretary to call a Ref on it, if they felt a majority had changed their view. The default being NI staying in the CU. Thus it is limited but not time limited, at the same time.
The DUP have to live with the possibility of a Ref on joining the ROI, this is nothing in comparison.