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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)
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I have no time for the majority of the UK government and have always been against brexit but the EU have gone from a position of "that's the deal which is non negotiable"to making a u turn with regards to the backstop.
I make this point as a remainer who is very disappointed the EU have in fact "blinked"which they said they would never do.
You too think the EU 'has crumbled'??? Hold on until I get you Sammy Wilson's number.
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the EU have gone from a position of "that's the deal which is non negotiable"to making a u turn with regards to the backstop.
I make this point as a remainer who is very disappointed the EU have in fact "blinked"which they said they would never do.
That's not entirely fair: the original WA included the backstop only "unless and until alternative arrangements" could be put in place. This new-ish Northern Ireland Protocol is exactly that - an alternative arrangement, which can be put in place a lot sooner than originally intended.
I happen to think it contains potentially fatal flaws (time will tell) and penalises the unionist community (but that is inevitable in any compromise due to their own irreconcilable demands) ... but when Johnson erased May's red line concerning the Irish Sea border, the EU was being entirely consistent in agreeing to revisit May's WA.
When all is said and done, they've only re-written what? 10% of May's WA. That's not even a quarter turn, never mind a full 180° U!
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CelticRambler wrote: »That's not entirely fair: the original WA included the backstop only "unless and until alternative arrangements" could be put in place. This new-ish Northern Ireland Protocol is exactly that - an alternative arrangement, which can be put in place a lot sooner than originally intended.
I happen to think it contains potentially fatal flaws (time will tell) and penalises the unionist community (but that is inevitable in any compromise due to their own irreconcilable demands) ... but when Johnson erased May's red line concerning the Irish Sea border, the EU was being entirely consistent in agreeing to revisit May's WA.
When all is said and done, they've only re-written what? 10% of May's WA. That's not even a quarter turn, never mind a full 180° U!
I think the fact it points the spotlight directly at those who 'want' a hard border on the island is a piece of genius tbh.
It was Varadkar that suggested it to Johnson at their Liverpool meet according to the Irish Times last night.
It firmly puts responsibility into the hands of the people on this island, which is the genius part, there is no hiding behind Westminster, Dublin, the EU, The 'Union' or anything else. And it kicks in straight away.
If you want a Hard Border you have to come out front and centre and campaign/or vote for it.
Have at it, whoever wants to own that one.0 -
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FrancieBrady wrote: »You too think the EU 'has crumbled'??? Hold on until I get you Sammy Wilson's number.
Both sides have made concessions ,which is good if you want the UK to leave.
If the EU had refused to budge as they have constantly said then the UK would have been faced with the prospect of no deal or revoke imo No one wanted a no deal crash out,it was just a threat used against the EU which appears to have worked.
Does this deal really suit anyone?As a British person I'm disappointed and judging from the reaction on this forum the general Irish consensus is its disappointing.0 -
CelticRambler wrote: »That's not entirely fair: the original WA included the backstop only "unless and until alternative arrangements" could be put in place. This new-ish Northern Ireland Protocol is exactly that - an alternative arrangement, which can be put in place a lot sooner than originally intended.
I happen to think it contains potentially fatal flaws (time will tell) and penalises the unionist community (but that is inevitable in any compromise due to their own irreconcilable demands) ... but when Johnson erased May's red line concerning the Irish Sea border, the EU was being entirely consistent in agreeing to revisit May's WA.
When all is said and done, they've only re-written what? 10% of May's WA. That's not even a quarter turn, never mind a full 180° U!
I don't care what the DUP think tbh,I had hoped the EU had pushed Johnson into a corner which would have led to his downfall,this deal allows him to remain in power which isn't good for anyone-imagine him and trump scheming together-it doesn't bear thinking about!
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If the deal goes through tomorrow (and it may well do), this will be a disaster for the DUP.
Lord Kilcooney was on Radio Ulster Talkback at lunchtime and pointed out that this was the first step to a United Ireland as over time the NI companies will find trading with EU easier than into GB and vice versa. Hence gradual alignment within the island and over time unification becomes more likely. He also made a point about VAT issues (can't remember the issue but I think it was if GB lowered its rate to below EU rate, then NI companies would be disadvantaged.
Interestingly, an economist who spoke next agreed with his analysis of the deal.
Initially my opinion on Mays deal was that it was the best of both worlds and would encourage the swing voters to choose the union over reunification. However, this new deal does not appear to some to be equivalent in this regard.
Lord C @ 35:50, but interesting from start
Economist @ 44:30
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0009cz0
Not sure his point about the customs officials.
On his point on VAT I thought NI companies applied for a rebate to the UK gov if the EU VAT rate is greater than the GB VAT rate? And the other way?0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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