Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

road_high

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it fails they will be trumpeting that it is because the UK cares about the 'Union' with them, when it will in fact be about other political jockeying altogether.

This will be the 4th? time a PM has attempted to sell them out for their own expediency.

Who exactly? Labour, the SNP? There's clutching at straws and that. Tomorrows vote is all about Leave vs Remain in the UK parliament. NI is an irrelevant side show.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it fails they will be trumpeting that it is because the UK cares about the 'Union' with them, when it will in fact be about other political jockeying altogether.

This will be the 4th? time a PM has attempted to sell them out for their own expediency.

The UK does care about the Union,just not the DUP version of a Union..:rolleyes:

RobMc59

road_high wrote: »

Wonder was Leo just stirring the pot with them now?
Red post boxes. Sweet jesus. But for how long? Royal Mail could decide to abandon the place. Still very old ER ones around Kilkenny ....painted green

I`m pretty sure I saw pre-ER green ones in Waterford or Cork back in the 80`s

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

The UK does care about the Union,just not the DUP version of a Union..:rolleyes:

The underlying reason for the chaos and failure of it's politics is that the fault lines of the UK have become exposed - it's essentially English-centric (meaning select parts of England) nature. Nothing matters all that much and in diminishing degrees of importance outside those parts.

Enzokk

Varta wrote: »

Labour needs an upheaval. Corbyn and his followers are dinosaurs, there is no place for them in the 21st century. The working class would be better represented if labour were to come out of the 1970s. I don't believe the Lib Dems will increase that much and in the election following the next one, providing Labour has sorted itself out, the Lib Dems will just about disappear.

Your assumption is that Labour takes a position that people will believe. They will only do this if someone like Starmer becomes the next leader who has been a staunch Remainer, otherwise the Lib Dems will take votes from Labour. They will take votes from them from those that voted Remain, the 16 million voters that will see how Labour leadership has abdicated responsibility by asking about anything other than Brexit during PMQ's thus signalling their ambivalence towards Brexit and then by allowing Brexit to happen by having their MP's be the deciding votes to allow Brexit.

You can see it once Swinson became leader of the Lib Dems and the attack dogs was out looking at her voting record. Instead of going after the Tories they knew where the biggest threat was and it wasn't the Tories but the Lib Dems.

Either way, I hope we never find out who is right in this scenario as it will be very bad for the UK if this deal gets through tomorrow.

RobMc59 wrote: »

The UK does care about the Union,just not the DUP version of a Union..:rolleyes:

By the Uk I assume you must mean the government, and they don't care about the Union, why else would they have had the ERG and DUP for updates on Brexit but not the Scottish or Welsh Governments for updates?

Strazdas

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m pretty sure I saw pre-ER green ones in Waterford or Cork back in the 80`s

I've seen several British ones around Dublin still in use - usually with George V or Edward VII on them.

murphyme2010

Strazdas wrote: »

I've seen several British ones around Dublin still in use - usually with George V or Edward VII on them.

There's a Victorian one on the Ballinteer Road

FrancieBrady

Strazdas wrote: »

I've seen several British ones around Dublin still in use - usually with George V or Edward VII on them.

Slap of red paint and they might take us back?

A Dub in Glasgo

The thread by Faisal Islam is the reason Labour should be whipping and voting against this deal

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1185182594566111232

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1185182594566111232.html

Capt'n Midnight

farmchoice wrote: »

we are now to call it the northern Irish protocol.

Or maybe "Ulster protocol" if using the same words as themmums would stick in your throat.

Akrasia wrote: »

There's a whopping big moat between NI and the UK. Putting a customs border in the Irish sea was always the most sensible thing to do given that there are requirements for security checks getting on boats and airplanes anyway

And the phytosanctions.
Right now any farm machinery from GB that isn't spotlessly clean goes back on the next ferry.

sliabh 1956 wrote: »

Listening to SoR If what Coveney says is correct the DUP are so blinded by their hatred of all things Republic is quite scary. Imagine the mayhem they would create if there ever was a united Ireland

Here's the thing. They are less toxic to FF and FG than SF are.

Play their cards right and they could do quite well in a UI.

Of course that would require looking further ahead than the next election. And having being bought stay bought.


Tomorrow will be interesting for their future.




Also will tomorrow be deal agreed pending a referendum ?
Amendments are fun.
Popcorn time.

Kermit.de.frog

What time do events kick off tomorrow? (not the rugby, the politics)

road_high

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yes. They are friendless now.

Not sure the hardcore Tories were ever their “friends”- more like useful idiots they could abandon when the time was opportune and they outlived their usefulness. Which is what happened. This is just 10 MPs out of nearly 700 I think so the significance was overplayed only by virtue of the arithmetic.
There’ll be lots of fluffy words still but no substance

Joe_ Public

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What time do events kick off tomorrow? (not the rugby, the politics)

They'll be in the chamber from 9.30 but there wont be any voting until the afternoon when they start to debate the amendments. From reading various reports doesnt seem likely to me that a vote on the deal will come anytime sooner than early evening, though dont quote me on that. It's even possible they wont vote on it at all tomorrow, depending on what happens with earlier amendments. Still all a bit up in the air i'd say.

J Mysterio

I can't see Blackfords ammendment being selected, so will probably be the other two only.

Headshot

J Mysterio wrote: »

I can't see Blackfords ammendment being selected, so will probably be the other two only.

I'm surprised there's no confirmation referendum amendment

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The underlying reason for the chaos and failure of it's politics is that the fault lines of the UK have become exposed - it's essentially English-centric (meaning select parts of England) nature. Nothing matters all that much and in diminishing degrees of importance outside those parts.

I can`t argue with you about the current UK government`s reckless behaviour but please don`t `tar everyone with the same brush`-ordinary people do care.

RobMc59

Enzokk wrote: »

Your assumption is that Labour takes a position that people will believe. They will only do this if someone like Starmer becomes the next leader who has been a staunch Remainer, otherwise the Lib Dems will take votes from Labour. They will take votes from them from those that voted Remain, the 16 million voters that will see how Labour leadership has abdicated responsibility by asking about anything other than Brexit during PMQ's thus signalling their ambivalence towards Brexit and then by allowing Brexit to happen by having their MP's be the deciding votes to allow Brexit.

You can see it once Swinson became leader of the Lib Dems and the attack dogs was out looking at her voting record. Instead of going after the Tories they knew where the biggest threat was and it wasn't the Tories but the Lib Dems.

Either way, I hope we never find out who is right in this scenario as it will be very bad for the UK if this deal gets through tomorrow.





By the Uk I assume you must mean the government, and they don't care about the Union, why else would they have had the ERG and DUP for updates on Brexit but not the Scottish or Welsh Governments for updates?

The current UK government are a bunch of hooray henry chancers who don`t care about anyone except themselves,least of all NI or the rest of us `plebs`who where`nt born with a silver spoon in their mouth!:eek:

Joe_ Public

Headshot wrote: »

I'm surprised there's no confirmation referendum amendment

There actually is, but it's on the second motion tabled by the government, which is in favour of a no deal brexit. Obviously, they'll only table it in the event the first motion (the PM's deal) isn't passed. Could be interesting if we do reach that point, not at all certain about it though.

Varta

Enzokk wrote: »

Your assumption is that Labour takes a position that people will believe. They will only do this if someone like Starmer becomes the next leader who has been a staunch Remainer, otherwise the Lib Dems will take votes from Labour. They will take votes from them from those that voted Remain, the 16 million voters that will see how Labour leadership has abdicated responsibility by asking about anything other than Brexit during PMQ's thus signalling their ambivalence towards Brexit and then by allowing Brexit to happen by having their MP's be the deciding votes to allow Brexit.

You can see it once Swinson became leader of the Lib Dems and the attack dogs was out looking at her voting record. Instead of going after the Tories they knew where the biggest threat was and it wasn't the Tories but the Lib Dems.

Either way, I hope we never find out who is right in this scenario as it will be very bad for the UK if this deal gets through tomorrow.





By the Uk I assume you must mean the government, and they don't care about the Union, why else would they have had the ERG and DUP for updates on Brexit but not the Scottish or Welsh Governments for updates?

Oh I absolutely assume that it won't be Corbyn leading Labour.

Junkyard Tom

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Leo Varadkar reassures the unionist people..

Having been conditioned by years of 'Unionist outrage/fury' etc when anyone south of the border 'dares' to open their mouth, it's almost jarring to witness how unburdened Leo Varadkar is by it all.

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Those voting breakdowns all show Philip Lee voting for a deal even though hes a Lib Dem mp. How can he be voting yes? I cant believe thats right, theyd surely never have let him join party as a brexit backer.

Realising my mistake now. The rebel Lib Dem mp is Norman Lamb, not Philip Lee, and Lamb is stepping down before next election so doesnt care if he defies his party. Still not confirmed one way or the other yet, though.

funkey_monkey

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I'm based in NI working indirectly for an English company in the services sector as a contractor via a limited company and VAT registered.
If there is a sea border between NI and GB how will that affect my job?
Will there be increased barriers which will make it less attractive to use NI.
As we would be using the EU regulations will NI be viewed differently and how so?

How likely is it that GB will make things more awkward and expensive for us? i.e. we already pay more as it is for deliveries from GB, etc.
In terms of EU funding we already get funding - but it mainly goes to peace funding ('Community Groups') which don't seem to benefit most of us.

I'm just trying to see the reality of where it would leave me professionally as most of my work is done with companies trading into GB. If we are following different rules and regs then where will I be?

Can anyone help me out here and tell me now how I will be affected?

kingbhome

What's the odds on them voting a no deal tomorrow. I've a feeling we're in for a shock

road_high

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Having been conditioned by years of 'Unionist outrage/fury' etc when anyone south of the border 'dares' to open their mouth, it's almost jarring to witness how unburdened Leo Varadkar is by it all.

I love it. They need a few home truths. I didn’t think BoJo would be the one to deliver it to them so directly though. Not did they! Sammy Wilson appears slightly stunned by the betrayal

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I can`t argue with you about the current UK government`s reckless behaviour but please don`t `tar everyone with the same brush`-ordinary people do care.

Not in recent polls. They would prefer Brexit to the UK staying intact it seems.

supremenovice

kingbhome wrote: »

What's the odds on them voting a no deal tomorrow. I've a feeling we're in for a shock

Ive put €20 on it to pass at 4/6 with Paddy Power. Its 11/10 to fail

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1185116624183017472


Ugh, remainers attacking us now.

Just leave already.

prawnsambo

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Can anyone help me out here and tell me now how I will be affected?

It's too early to know for sure, since we don't have legal texts yet and the UK has legislation to pass. But on the face of it, it would should make very little difference to you as a service provider. VAT may be an issue depending on whether the UK diverge substantially or not from current NI rates. But these issues are a good way down the road (assuming the deal passes in the HoC).

Edit: Your deliveries may cost more since you will have customs clearance to add to the other costs. (I think. - others may have more info on this)

prawnsambo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1185116624183017472


Ugh, remainers attacking us now.

Just leave already.

Andrew Adonis blew his remainer credentials when he sold out for a run at the EP. So I'd be inclined to give him the two fingered salute on that one.

Strazdas

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1185116624183017472


Ugh, remainers attacking us now.

Just leave already.

A totally inaccurate misreading of the political situation. Varadkar has said repeatedly he is not ready for a united Ireland and thinks it's way too soon to even discuss it.