Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

briany

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So he needs ten of those twenty seven to get the deal passed ?

The DUP are going to be laughing their heads off if the deal loses by 20 votes.

Itssoeasy

briany wrote: »

The DUP are going to be laughing their heads off if the deal loses by 20 votes.

The DUP are familiar with the concept of laughter and just happiness in general ?

Shelga

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So he needs ten of those twenty seven to get the deal passed ?

Yes, 320 votes for the deal and it passes.

Enzokk

Varta wrote: »

And you really believe that the EU is just going to allow that sh*t show to continue by granting more extensions?

I think the EU will want to avoid no-deal, if that means extensions then extensions will be given as long as its asked for.

splinter65

Shelga wrote: »

Yes, 320 votes for the deal and it passes.

Please god let it happen I can’t take any more. How can I get back all the time I’ve spent on this and how did it get so addictive?

Itssoeasy

So according to sky news the exchanges between the DUP and Boris wasn’t pleasant. That relationship seems broken.

lola85

splinter65 wrote: »

Please god let it happen I can’t take any more. How can I get back all the time I’ve spent on this and how did it get so addictive?

Is only the beginning.

About another ten years of negotiations before they properly exit.

Pedro K

I feel like a broken record in this thread asking this yet again, but does anybody know what time the big votes are to be?

Thanks in advance.

Varta

Shelga wrote: »

A majority of Remain MPs would vote for a deal that didn’t trash the economy for generations. That they have not been presented with that yet is not their fault.

But it is their fault. Where did they present this magical deal? Did they take out full pages ads in newspapers outlining it? Did they get together cross-party to discuss the details of it? No and no. They didn't do that because they don't want any deal. They are gambling on brexit falling through. Therefore, if it doesn't fall through, they will have to live with whatever deal the brexiters push through. Every MP in the HoC has behaved shamefully.

Varta

Enzokk wrote: »

I think the EU will want to avoid no-deal, if that means extensions then extensions will be given as long as its asked for.

Pure fantasy.

GM228

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Merkel quoted this mornings papers saying they will very likely give extension. That all but settles issue for me really.

And I believe Macron was quoted yesterday as saying there will be no extension, but I tend to go with Merkel, her statement would carry more weight I think.

CelticRambler

Just listening to Johnson's statement to the House (am a little bit behind). So many references to "our European friends" - five or six, so far - when only a few weeks ago he was ranting about "surrender" to these same Europeans.

It's also striking how the Johnson (and others) are talking about this as an "excellent" deal. Any normal person would recognise that after three years of difficult negotiations, the resulting deal would rarely be better than "satisfactory" or "the best that could realistically be expected". The attitude on the EU side comes across as more genuine. Whenever anyone tries to pass something off as "great" or "excellent" you can usually be sure that there's something dodgy about it ...

GM228

Varta wrote: »

Pure fantasy.

Why is it fantasy that the EU would want to avoid a no deal? It's in nobody's interest to have no deal.

Varta

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fundamentally the EU want the UK to stay. I can see an extension till at least January being accepted. Let them have their GE and see how the chips lie then

Agree on the first part, but patience has run out.

Itssoeasy

Kate Hoey needs to leave the Labour Party. The DUP seem to be able to smile at least.

Varta

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Merkel quoted this mornings papers saying they will very likely give extension. That all but settles issue for me really.

The reference wasn't to one more extension, but the idea that the EU would go on indefinitely extending while the UK indefinitely procrastinates. They were told to use the last extension wisely and what did they do? Took holidays and then dressed up like nutcrackers and ponced about the HoC.

J Mysterio

Pedro K wrote: »

I feel like a broken record in this thread asking this yet again, but does anybody know what time the big votes are to be?

Thanks in advance.

Its unclear, it could be late into the evening. After 5, 6 even

J Mysterio

CelticRambler wrote: »

Just listening to Johnson's statement to the House (am a little bit behind). So many references to "our European friends" - five or six, so far - when only a few weeks ago he was ranting about "surrender" to these same Europeans.

It's also striking how the Johnson (and others) are talking about this as an "excellent" deal. Any normal person would recognise that after three years of difficult negotiations, the resulting deal would rarely be better than "satisfactory" or "the best that could realistically be expected". The attitude on the EU side comes across as more genuine. Whenever anyone tries to pass something off as "great" or "excellent" you can usually be sure that there's something dodgy about it ...

He has always called them 'our European friends and partners.' It's very grating.

Itssoeasy

J Mysterio wrote: »

Its unclear, it could be late into the evening. After 5, 6 even

Oh god. Boris just said he hopes that labour will join them in the lobbies “later tonight”

KildareP

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/19/one-way-explain-nigel-farages-behaviour-becoming-remainer/



Brexiteers are turning on each other now as predicted by me in earlier iterations of the thread.

The only thing brexiteers can agree on is that the want to leave, but the gulf between left and right (and Russian owned useful idiots) is so wide as to what Brexit means and how to achieve it, 3 years later on those divides are still there.

The moment the UK leaves the EU, Mr. Farage becomes redundant.

His whole career has been solely based around the EU and being an MEP.

He has proven on multiple occasions to be deeply unpalatable to the voting public to be elected into a Westminster seat.

Even his side-projects - Brexit Party Limited, his LBC show, his public speaking, his opinion pieces - rely on his involvement with the EU and cease to be relevant upon any exit from same.

He is a career rabble rouser who ironically is going to be a victim of his own success - albeit with a generous MEP pension and an EU passport.

NotToScale

Unfortunately, those rabble rousers will likely find some other rabble to rouse. I would say if this does conclude with the UK leaving, they will jump onto a similar agenda to Donald Trump across a range of extreme deregulation type issues dressed up with a bit of tabloid populism.

Joe_ Public

Listening to justine greening in commons, not sure shes indicated her position, but she doesnt sound like a deal supporter to me. I think thats another for no tbh.

KildareP

NotToScale wrote: »

Unfortunately, those rabble rousers will likely find some other rabble to rouse. I would say if this does conclude with the UK leaving, they will jump onto a similar agenda to Donald Trump across a range of extreme deregulation type issues dressed up with a bit of tabloid populism.

True - but hopefully we won’t have to listen to it

Varta

GM228 wrote: »

And I believe Macron was quoted yesterday as saying there will be no extension, but I tend to go with Merkel, her statement would carry more weight I think.

That kind of thinking is part of the reason the UK is in such a mess and why they believed Ireland would be thrown under the bus.

Varta

GM228 wrote: »

Why is it fantasy that the EU would want to avoid a no deal? It's in nobody's interest to have no deal.

Pure fantasy that they will give indefinite extensions.

Joe_ Public

GM228 wrote: »

And I believe Macron was quoted yesterday as saying there will be no extension, but I tend to go with Merkel, her statement would carry more weight I think.

Macron said he might not support extension, not that hed veto it. I know thats a very subtle difference but nuances can be significant here. Merkel sounded more emphatic so i'd definitely lean that way too.

FrancieBrady

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/19/one-way-explain-nigel-farages-behaviour-becoming-remainer/



Brexiteers are turning on each other now as predicted by me in earlier iterations of the thread.

The Guardian posted this prophesy from 2016 on my FB feed this morning

McGuinness warned that unionists could turn against Westminster in the way that Scots have done in recent years because of the feeling that London doesn’t care about them. “I think there are a lot of people here beginning to feel the same, and depending on how this negotiation goes that trend will accelerate over the next couple of years.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/16/martin-mcguinness-calls-for-special-eu-status-for-northern-ireland?fbclid=IwAR3JgnOgLKp12MIELuSKQe_P4G4_DqiMzUI5aL7GGF8OzIVeTknRyCQIRJ0

KildareP

GM228 wrote: »

Why is it fantasy that the EU would want to avoid a no deal? It's in nobody's interest to have no deal.

It’s starting to eat into EU time, money and focus.

Once you have to start implementing new budgets, plans, votes on future direction of the EU, the half-in/half-out status of the UK increases uncertainty. Possibly even makes things legally uncertain or difficult.

And if there’s realistically nothing to be gained by indefinite extensions, with no hope the UK will ever find a common path forward so long as they have the comfort of an extension and/or revoke at any time, then at some point you have to brace and take the hit in order to draw a line and move on.

Even a definite “that’s it lads” will focus minds - in much the same way the UK argued the threat of No Deal would focus the EU’s.

Oafley Jones

Surprised to see so much available seating in the Commons!

Varta

KildareP wrote: »

It’s starting to eat into EU time, money and focus.

Once you have to start implementing new budgets, plans, votes on future direction of the EU, the half-in/half-out status of the UK increases uncertainty. Possibly even makes things legally uncertain or difficult.

And if there’s realistically nothing to be gained by indefinite extensions, with no hope the UK will ever find a common path forward so long as they have the comfort of an extension and/or revoke at any time, then at some point you have to brace and take the hit in order to draw a line and move on.

Even a definite “that’s it lads” will focus minds - in much the same way the UK argued the threat of No Deal would focus the EU’s.

Nail on head.