Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

For Forks Sake

A thought occurred to me earlier on, it would be revenge served ice cold if the Queen took a notion to include Gina Miller in the next honours list

sdanseo

Poor Attorney General is being scapegoated mercilessly by the govt and Sky News et al lapping it up like pets who've just been fed.

Meanwhile, Bercow hasn't looked this happy since he pulled out the Silver Spoon.

Watching the commons tomorrow should be entertaining. Wonder will Boris even bother to turn up.
His reaction (and Trumps) to the whole this have been about midway between delusional and despotic, and I'm not using those words casually.

woohoo!!!

sdanseo wrote: »

Poor Attorney General is being scapegoated mercilessly by the govt and Sky News et al lapping it up like pets who've just been fed.

Meanwhile, Bercow hasn't looked this happy since he pulled out the Silver Spoon.

Watching the commons tomorrow should be entertaining. Wonder will Boris even bother to turn up.
His reaction (and Trumps) to the whole this have been about midway between delusional and despotic, and I'm not using those words casually.

Just another day at the office according to Trump. Sums up both mens attitudes perfectly.

Cork Boy 53

sdanseo wrote: »

Poor Attorney General is being scapegoated mercilessly by the govt and Sky News et al lapping it up like pets who've just been fed.

Meanwhile, Bercow hasn't looked this happy since he pulled out the Silver Spoon.

Watching the commons tomorrow should be entertaining. Wonder will Boris even bother to turn up.
His reaction (and Trumps) to the whole this have been about midway between delusional and despotic, and I'm not using those words casually.

As far as I know he won`t be leaving New York until tomorrow.

CelticRambler

briany wrote: »

There is no revocation on a temporary basis. The EU may not even bother with the UK if they try and pull that one.

I know that, and you know that, but there's nothing to stop anyone from saying that it's temporary. Way back in the mists of time, there was discussion on this forum about whether or not the UK could unilaterally revoke Art.50 the day before Brexit-day, and invoke it again the day after to gain another 2 years. Remember those golden days, when such a thing was poo-poohed as impossible to imagine? :pac:

With Johnson having his arms and legs cut off, and his entrails becoming his extrails, it would be pretty tame on the scale of duplicity for someone, anyone, to propose a "temporary" revocation. In fact, it would be dead easy to spin it as taking back control - no longer beholden to deadlines set by the EU, no longer being told what terms and conditions have to be met, no longer suffering humiliating public climb-downs at foreign press conferences ... <cue Elgar's Pomp & Circumstance> "We are going to leave the EU, but we'll do it on our own terms; we'll show those Europeans how the plucky Brits can pull together, united in Red, White and Blue against a monstrous foreign power; we will devise a Brexit on our own terms and present it to Brussels when we are ready, and when we are satisfied ..."

There are still so many problems with current the WA and the WA(NI-) and the likely rainbow HoC after the next election that the path of least resistance now is Revoke-&-Reset, and blame everything on Cameron/May/Johnson.

GM228

Interesting that Johnson and Trump were meeting yesterday, today Johnson's prorogation was declared unlawful and Trump is now subject to a formal impeachment inquiry.

How things changed over 24 hours for the two "friends".

Professor Moriarty

GM228 wrote: »

Interesting that Johnson and Trump were meeting yesterday, today Johnson's prorogation was declared unlawful and Trump is now subject to a formal impeachment inquiry.

How things changed over 24 hours for the two "friends".

Today, a Labour MP has called for Johnson to be impeached.

GM228

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Today, a Labour MP has called for Johnson to be impeached.

It can't happen in the UK as it does not meet the required procedural standards of fairness (it has not been visited since 1806).

Inquitus

GM228 wrote: »

It can't happen in the UK as it does not meet the required procedural standards of fairness (it has not been visited since 1806).

Johnson called for Blair to be impeached over the Iraq war!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_motion_to_impeach_Tony_Blair#Conservative_Party

Professor Moriarty

Inquitus wrote: »

Johnson called for Blair to be impeached over the Iraq war!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_motion_to_impeach_Tony_Blair#Conservative_Party

The irony!

Itssoeasy

Maybe the whole reason the brexit negotiations have gone so badly is because this may be the first time in modern history where the UK has meet its equal in terms of negotiating power. I mean the empire was basically a no choice in the matter. The world wars were the British being part of a group giving the Germans a damn good kicking twice. When has the UK ever had to negotiate in this manner ever ?

GM228

Inquitus wrote: »

Johnson called for Blair to be impeached over the Iraq war!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_motion_to_impeach_Tony_Blair#Conservative_Party

He could call for it, but would have failed.

The 1966-67 Select Committee on Parliamentary Privilege concluded that impeachment was long obsolete, as has several later reports including the latest 2016 report on the issue.

Itssoeasy

I've seen a quote from trump about Johnson "not going anywhere" in regards to the issues the PM faces at home. I mean with trump it could easily mean that boris has decided to use his America birth as a reason to stay in New York(I know he gave up his American citizenship) as being there is probably preferable to the mess he'll face this week.

Capt'n Midnight

J Mysterio wrote: »

Fully agreed re the Tory/ Labour point. She leans conservative, likes the characters involved and is sympathetic to them and that this entails more access/ communication with/ from Tories.

But RE her style... That is totally bizarre for the BBC (national broadcaster) political editor. She is surely the head of a department and runs editorial policy. I thought Journalism 101 was getting something on the record/ verifiable/ attributed to someone. Her content is effectively worthless, and what's worse, she could be being manipulated.

My fave tutor at uni had a great journalism 101 lesson: “If someone says it’s raining & another person says it’s dry, it’s not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out of the f**king window and find out which is true.”

The UK needs more investigative journalism.

Professor Moriarty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Maybe the whole reason the brexit negotiations have gone so badly is because this may be the first time in modern history where the UK has meet its equal in terms of negotiating power. I mean the empire was basically a no choice in the matter. The world wars were the British being part of a group giving the Germans a damn good kicking twice. When has the UK ever had to negotiate in this manner ever ?

Good point. They have negotiated on/off with the EU over issues in the past but nothing of this magnitude. Maybe getting into the EEC in 1973 might come reasonably close.

Water John

Brendan O'Neill on Sky 10.30 should be fun. Outrage at judges I would say.
Any chance Boris went to the USA with Thomas Cook?

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

Brendan O'Neill on Sky 10.30 should be fun. Outrage at judges I would say.
Any chance Boris went to the USA with Thomas Cook?

Enemies of the people.

Inquitus

The AG's published advice seems to relate only to the NI challenge which ultimately was unsuccessful, not sure he can be thrown under the bus for that bit.



This one is a lot more damaging, perusing twitter, maybe the bus it is!

Capt'n Midnight

robinph wrote: »

It does overrule the Queen, but she was acting on direct instructions from Johnson so can use the "was just following orders" defence.

Just a note on who picks and approves the Supreme Court Justices
https://www.supremecourt.uk/about/appointments-of-justices.html

If, following the consultations above, the Lord Chancellor is content with the recommendation made by the selection commission, the candidate's name is forwarded to the Prime Minister who, in turn, sends the recommendation to Her Majesty The Queen who makes the formal appointment.

In case anyone was wondering as there are only twelve justices - it was Lord Briggs who sat this one out.

Water John

As predicted O'Neill goes after the 12 unelected judges.
Interestingly, the right wing papers are late publishing?

A Dub in Glasgo

Brendan O'Neill spouting his nonsense that it is the judges who are really ruling the UK - who voted for the judges he asks? Why are Sky giving this idiot TV time?

devnull

Water John wrote: »

As predicted O'Neill goes after the 12 unelected judges.
Interestingly, the right wing papers are late publishing?

Daily Mail is here, predictable line



Didn't expect anything else.

A Dub in Glasgo

The new buzz phrases seem to be 'the incredibly wealthy people' who brought the cases according to O'Neill 'the establishment' & 'business elite'

devnull

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Brendan O'Neill spouting his nonsense that it is the judges who are really ruling the UK - who voted for the judges he asks? Why are Sky giving this idiot TV time?

Indeed, the UK should have a separation between the courts and the government and also Parliament should not be able to have a say in what the Prime Minister does.

Democracy apparently.

Professor Moriarty

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Brendan O'Neill spouting his nonsense that it is the judges who are really ruling the UK - who voted for the judges he asks? Why are Sky giving this idiot TV time?

Not watching but I hope that someone points out to him that it was unanimous. Not one dissenting voice.

Incidentally, if you follow the money with Brendan, it's easy to understand where he's coming from (hint: Koch).

devnull

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The new buzz phrases seem to be 'the incredibly wealthy people' who brought the cases according to O'Neill 'the establishment' & 'business elite'

Just like Johnson on Proroguing not being about Brexit, but a ruling against it frustrates it, O'Neil is very much not being honest with the public here and is changing his tune whenever he feels like it to paint something that is not there.

I saw him before going on about how the left, the Labour Party etc are all trying to stop and frustrate Brexit then tonight he leaps to the idea that the wealthy elite are the ones who are frustrating Brexit, despite the fact that the left tend not to be the ones who are the elite and the wealthy, and that's the Tory party he's describing.

The whole thing is laughable really, people spout a load of rubbish and contradict themselves non stop and yet the Brexiteers still lap it up and don't see the error of their ways or how it doesn't make any sense. They just are being spoon fed stuff by the likes of O'Neil and repeat it, it's almost like a cult.

maebee

Water John wrote: »

As predicted O'Neill goes after the 12 unelected judges.

Pity that the Presenter and the other reviewer didn't point out that Johnson is unelected. O'Neill saying that Brexit "is a very simple idea" is hilarious.

devnull

Just seen a post from a Brexiteer saying that the UK Supreme Court is the equivalent to the Nazi Germany Third Reich. Did half of these people not even study history properly at school?

The biggest laugh is this particular guy went on about how people in the war fought for democracy and to stop people like Hitler and they would be turning in their graves about what the Supreme Court did today and Hitler would be proud.

In reality, by stopping Parliament from having a say and saying that there should be no guardians of the constitution of the UK, then they are basically advocating creating an environment where a dictator like figure could flourish.

Akrasia

This is a historic picture. the US president on the Day impeachment proceedings began against him, and The UK prime minister on the day he was found by a unanimous Supreme Court decision to have broken the law and the UK constitution

The darkest days of 21st century western democracy may be finally unraveling

One can only hope that what comes next is better than what came before

devnull

Daily Express is now in



I see they are linking Brexit to Proroguing of Parliament, so must therefore agree that Boris lied when he said that proroguing wasn't about Brexit. Don't hold my breath on them admitting it though.