Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

gimli2112

lawred2 wrote: »

Apologies for this but I've been traveling to Tenerife all day.. first chance to sit down.

Is there a two line summary of what happened today?

Boris
Lost

Sam Russell

CarPark2 wrote: »

I wasn’t around for Thatcher, but the brits must have been happy with her if they gave her three terms.

No single party Gov has got above 50% of the popular vote since 1932.

MT never got more than 42% of the popular vote in any election and yet got massive majorities, even going to war in the Falklands/Malvinas did not deliver a majority in the popular vote.

As a consequence of her 'leadership', Britain no longer mines coal, all car manufacturing is owned by foreign companies, all manufacturing in Britain is now a minor actor in the GDP, Britain is a major home for 'funny money', etc. etc.

I think when it comes to bad PMs, they have a lot of choice.

Strazdas

lawred2 wrote: »

Apologies for this but I've been traveling to Tenerife all day.. first chance to sit down.

Is there a two line summary of what happened today?

Johnson couldn't hold his meaningful vote on the deal and was forced to send an extension request to the EU this evening.

Very unclear what happens next and how the EU view all of this.

Enzokk

lawred2 wrote: »

Apologies for this but I've been traveling to Tenerife all day.. first chance to sit down.

Is there a two line summary of what happened today?

Oliver Letwin won his amendment to have the legislation passed first before a vote on Brexit will be brought forward. Johnson will send the extension letter as a result to the EU, the UK Government will try to bring the vote back on Monday but may be resisted by Bercow.

FrancieBrady

lawred2 wrote: »

Apologies for this but I've been traveling to Tenerife all day.. first chance to sit down.

Is there a two line summary of what happened today?

DUP might back another referendum and remain.


I kid you not!

Enzokk

I flit between worst PMs all the time, but the fact remains that if Cameron didn't call the Brexit referendum then May doesn't become PM and Johnson doesn't in these circumstances. So Cameron wins hands down all the time as he created the scenario where May and Johnson followed.

briany

Enzokk wrote: »

Oliver Letwin won his amendment to have the legislation passed first before a vote on Brexit will be brought forward. Johnson will send the extension letter as a result to the EU. the UK Government will try to bring the vote back on Monday but may be resisted by Bercow.

He will send the letter, or he has sent the letter? AFAIK, he's got an hour, at the time of writing this, if he hasn't already, or he's breaking the law.

Sam Russell

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

apart from the small matter of saving us from enslavement by the Nazi hoards of course.

He did run the UK side of things but got quite a bit of help from the USA and the Russians, and the rest of the Commonwealth/Empire. The British Empire was bankrupt after the war, from which it only recovered by shedding the colonies, and joining the EEC/EU.

His actions in the war was only a small part of his political career, most of which was ignominious. URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_campaign"]Gallipoli for example[/URL

Anti-union, anti Catholic, and anti Irish, plus an out and out racist. Just a few of his endearing qualities - plus he was a drunk.

I believe he is a hero of the current PM.

Letwin_Larry

briany wrote: »

He will send the letter, or he has sent the letter? AFAIK, he's got an hour, at the time of writing this, if he hasn't already, or he's breaking the law.

by some accounts he has sent 3 different letters!

ath262

Tweet from Donald Tusk - "The extension request has just arrived. I will now start consulting EU leaders on how to react. "

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1185661904427143171

but the Sunday Telegraph front page suggests that he sent a photo-copy of the letter in the Benn amendment and contacted EU leader to say the letter is not from him !!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1185660087488176128

Enzokk

briany wrote: »

He will send the letter, or he has sent the letter? AFAIK, he's got an hour, at the time of writing this, if he hasn't already, or he's breaking the law.

Here is a source for the 3 letters link,

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1185661218050191360?s=20

Donnielighto

Enzokk wrote: »

I flit between worst PMs all the time, but the fact remains that if Cameron didn't call the Brexit referendum then May doesn't become PM and Johnson doesn't in these circumstances. So Cameron wins hands down all the time as he created the scenario where May and Johnson followed.

Not sure if I read it here but say the theory that the referendum was planned to be scrapped as part of negotiaons with clegg and then the majority made a balls of that forcing the referendum that he thought he'd win.

May was doing her best effort in a scenario no one else wanted and Boris is a douche.

briany

Johnson seriously treading a grey area right now.

devnull

briany wrote: »

Johnson seriously treading a grey area right now.

The Supreme court generally takes dim views of people who try and play stupid games to get around the law.

He might find that out soon.

Water John

Letter sent. also sent a second political letter. Johnson blinks, again.

robinph

He's sent a letter, but didn't sign it. Then sent another letter disagreeing with the first.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50112924

That doesn't sound like compling with the law to me, but if the EU treats it as if he signed it then I guess he's off the hook.

Enzokk

If it is true he only sent a photocopy and didn't sign the letter he was supposed to then it is off to court on Monday.

Edit: Would be some kind of karma if the EU treats the photocopy as legitimate and he gets rebuked by the courts as well. He would then have sent the letter according to the EU and get in legal trouble. Kind of like the DUP screwing him and voting for a second referendum after he reversed that bus over them multiple times.

Letwin_Larry

devnull wrote: »

The Supreme court generally takes dim views of people who try and play stupid games to get around the law.

He might find that out soon.

could he become the first PM to end up with a criminal record?

briany

I think what Boris is trying to do here is complying with the law by sending the letter but giving it as little legal standing as possible, and then sending another letter disagreeing, which he probably did sign.

RickBlaine

Not signing the letter is so immature. OK, he might disagree with it but he is legally required by law to abide by the wishes of parliament on this matter. He is behaving like a petulant child.

ArmaniJeanss

There are posters here who think the EU are so fed up at this stage that they just want the UK gone as soon as possible, and want this ended one way or the other by the end of the month.

There are posters here who think that the EU still wants the UK to stay, and are happy to keep this going indefinitely in the hope that circumstances eventually change and a revoke/revote happens.

I guess we'll know which holds sway depending on how quickly they respond to the extension request, and what the response is.

Enzokk

Off to court early Monday morning it seems if this is correct,

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1185661892557201408?s=20

I believe that there is some legal principle where he would not frustrate what the legislation is supposed to achieve and what he has done is exactly that. I am sure others (GM228?) would be able to clarify better than this layman lawyers.

RickBlaine

I think it is always good to refer to David Allen Green on such matters ...

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1185666023418220545

liamtech

Enzokk wrote: »

Off to court early Monday morning it seems if this is correct,

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1185661892557201408?s=20

I believe that there is some legal principle where he would not frustrate what the legislation is supposed to achieve and what he has done is exactly that. I am sure others (GM228?) would be able to clarify better than this layman lawyers.

shocking stuff - i do suspect he will be in court over this - he is not behaving within the bounds of what is expected within the law

Guy:Incognito

robinph wrote: »

He's sent a letter, but didn't sign it. Then sent another letter disagreeing with the first..

Between that ridiculousness and Trumps letter writing over the last couple of weeks, neither should be trusted with a pen. Theyre like kids. Petulant kids.

briany

Bad news for Boris is that the UK parliament is the country's supreme legislative instrument. The EU could rightly say it holds the opinion of the UK parliament higher than that of Johnson, if the EU wants to get a dig in.

Water John

I was wondering, as I've often seen legal letters without a signature.

RickBlaine

My guess is that the letter is valid without a signature because it was sent and received via official channels.

NotToScale

I've a feeling the EU will be unable to respond as who can write that letter is ultimately a constitutional question that could only be answered by the Supreme Court of the UK.

It's not up to the EU to decide who represents the UK to the EU. That's a matter for the UK.

It's actually making the UK look like a failed state without a working government and a clown at the helm.

Joe_ Public

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

so this was their ingenious ruse to circumvent the Benn Act?
mother of God ..............

Yeah...and there was me today speculating as what fiendish plot they were hatching. Memo to self to stop crediting johnson or cummimgs with any political savvy whatsoever! Speaking of the "evil genius" maybe its just me or is he keeping a low profile of late?