Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

briany

thecretinhop wrote: »

he is an absolute clown who is literally running the chair as his own remainer onclave, he has a pro remain sticker on his car he is meant to be unbiased is he fk.
he was on turgidity like a performing parrot for ffs

That was his wife's car, although I agree that he should have thought about taking the sticker off. Whatever Bercow's personal views on Brexit are, he wouldn't be so stupid as to loudly proclaim his bias.

As for Bercow running a remainer enclave from the speaker's chair, I'm sure Conservative MPs are welcome to find his actions unconstitutional if they wish. The UK government's actions in trying to prorogue parliament for 5 weeks was found to be illegal. Let the UK government similarly find the speaker's actions illegal, if they can do.

Zubeneschamali

Brexit Secretary Barclay has admitted that NI businesses will need EU paperwork to "export" to Britain.

Will the DUP change sides to Remain? They certainly should, to be consistent.

Danzy

GM228 wrote: »

The EU27 don't "try", they either agree to an extension or they don't, what makes you think they will try not to? We really do not know what way it will go, but when you have prominent members like Merkel saying an extension will come I put more weight on statements like hers.

They aren't going to rush to give it, they are going for maximum pressure on MPs to get the deal oover the line.

They will give it, no doubt there but there but they do not hide their impatience or their desire to get this deal passed, as the German foreign minister said, the commons needs to take responsibility for this deal and an orderly Brexit.

Joe_ Public

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Brexit Secretary Barclay has admitted that NI businesses will need EU paperwork to "export" to Britain.

Will the DUP change sides to Remain? They certainly should, to be consistent.

Thought so but they dont seem to be behind the amendments for some reason. Thought they would be chomping at the bit for a uk wide CU in the circumstances. But apparently not if what they say is to be believed.

Nody

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Brexit Secretary Barclay has admitted that NI businesses will need EU paperwork to "export" to Britain.

Will the DUP change sides to Remain? They certainly should, to be consistent.

No they will argue for a no deal Brexit instead so they can suffer equally as much as the mainland instead; because that's preferable compared to be on the same side of an argument with Sin Fein. Besides since when have DUP actually changed opinion on something? If No Deal is good enough for the Englishmen then it's good enough for Northern Ireland!

dublinman1990

threeball wrote: »

Whatever a GE might solve, in that Boris might get a majority, a 2nd Referendum will only make things worse. If that happens you can expect civil unrest, years of politicians looking for 2nd and 3rd confirmatory referendums and god knows what else. Most the Brexiteers will be dead by the time it ends

Really. What type of group will start off this civil unrest in the UK if & when a 2nd referendum gets approved by parliament? Will it be hard Brexiteers or Remainers who will begin this trouble? To my mind Remainers this weekend didn't seem to have an appetite to bring civil unrest to the UK's streets when proceedings had taken place inside parliament on Saturday. The crowds attending The People's Vote rally outside parliament on that day were very civilized & peaceful about the whole thing.

Duane Dibbley

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Brexit Secretary Barclay has admitted that NI businesses will need EU paperwork to "export" to Britain.

Will the DUP change sides to Remain? They certainly should, to be consistent.

What difference will it make?

ToBeFrank123

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Brexit Secretary Barclay has admitted that NI businesses will need EU paperwork to "export" to Britain.

Will the DUP change sides to Remain? They certainly should, to be consistent.

The DUP are beginning to look like complete fools from all of this.

Their plan from Brexit was to create an even closer union with the UK and it has backfired spectacularly. Now they are left in No Mans land, despised by everyone.

10000maniacs

Danzy wrote: »

There is a deal that Brussels and Dublin are reasonably happy with.

That the British Gov't are reasonably happy with.

It has a good chance of passing.

2nd referendums and all the trouble that entails for ourselves and the EU, nevermind Britain, other bills do not have enough support.

Get this passed needs to be the message from Brussels and they are letting it be known that they are frustrated that it hasn't been passed.

Ireland will be fine as long as there is no hard border and they can trade freely with the UK
The Tories will be fine because they are reckless disaster capitalists and charlatans.
The EU will be fine because it protects the single market.
But what about the UK citizens who can smell the coffee and know that the whole thing is going to be a disaster?

Zubeneschamali

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

What difference will it make?

It'll mean frictionless trade with the Republic and red-tape and paperwork for trade with Scotland or England.

Does that sound like NI is still an equal member of the United Kingdom?

Since that is the DUPs entire reason for existence, they can never back this deal.

GM228

The ball is in the UKs court:-

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1186295769508302850?s=19

Most likely the EP will follow the advice.

dublinman1990

https://twitter.com/JP_Biz/status/1186314537638776832

From John Campbell; BBC NI Economics & Business Editor

He reported here from one study released from NI's Dept for the Economy commissioned from the Fraser of Allander Institute is suggesting a 2.7% hit in GDP for NI under BJ's new deal which is only slightly worse when NI is going through the effects of a no deal Brexit.

Here is the study in more detail.

JRM has just read the business statement for parliament this week. MP's are now discussing it in Parliament.

lawred2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If the result was overturned in the UK I think that will be the 5th time a vote against the EU by referendum has been overturned including in France, the Netherlands and Ireland.

Don't know about anyone else but i'm spotting a trend here...

I'm spotting a trend alright

And it's with your recent posts..

UK Gov wants the WAB done & dusted by Thursday. Haste alone may trip it up yet......


https://twitter.com/CommonsLeader/status/1186321565299941376?s=20

Kermit.de.frog

Excellent. Let's just get it done.

The UK needs to leave. We can not have another 20 years of this.

It's best they continue the debate among themselves outside the EU.

fash

briany wrote: »

That was his wife's car, although I agree that he should have thought about taking the sticker off. Whatever Bercow's personal views on Brexit are, he wouldn't be so stupid as to loudly proclaim his bias.

As for Bercow running a remainer enclave from the speaker's chair, I'm sure Conservative MPs are welcome to find his actions unconstitutional if they wish. The UK government's actions in trying to prorogue parliament for 5 weeks was found to be illegal. Let the UK government similarly find the speaker's actions illegal, if they can do.

Bercow spent years protecting and allowing Brexiters to speak in parliament prior to the referendum - a fact acknowledged by Peter Bone, a long standing Brexiter and beneficiary of that protection. Calling Bercow a"remainer clown" is rather stupid.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Excellent. Let's just get it done.

The UK needs to leave. We can not have another 20 years of this.

It's best they continue the debate among themselves outside the EU.

You could have 10 years of trade negotiations. Getting the WAB through is merely the beginning.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

You could have 10 years of trade negotiations. Getting the WAB through is merely the beginning.

At least they will be out.

That's the difference.

The trade negotiations will not be as prominent or relentlessly divisive.

Zubeneschamali

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We can not have another 20 years of this.

As a matter of fact, we can.

Norway first applied to join in 1962. Then in 1967. They had a Join referendum in 1972, which failed. They had another in 1994 which also failed.

But their application for membership is officially not withdrawn, so they have been in the process of joining for a lot more than 20 years.

The UK could take as long to leave, or get frozen in the act, or revoke Article 50 and never leave.

And all of those would be cheaper for everyone than Johnson's proposed Brexit.

Water John

Kermit if you're that worried about Brexit dominating the news, Sky News have now launched a Brexit Free News Channel.

trellheim

At least they will be out.

That's the difference.

The trade negotiations will not be as prominent or relentlessly divisive.

ERG have been wetting themselves to strike FTAs with a free hand. Why do you think that is ? Its giving the headbangers free rein. And if you think that cant be done by relaxing some inconvenient regulations like workers rights and so on your going to miss the even larger protests and arguments

Letwin_Larry

looks like we've gone from Super Saturday, to Manic Monday and now Titanic Tuesday

marno21

fash wrote: »

Bercow spent years protecting and allowing Brexiters to speak in parliament prior to the referendum - a fact acknowledged by Peter Bone, a long standing Brexiter and beneficiary of that protection. Calling Bercow a"remainer clown" is rather stupid.

Indeed. Bercow is fair, and law abiding. Neither of which are qualities currently attributable to the Johnson Government.

Headshot

This honestly made me laugh how they are justifying not releasing a economic analysis

"My starting point is that agreeing the Withdrawal Agreement is self-evidently in our economic interest. It would bring an end to the damaging uncertainty and delay of the past years, and allow businesses to get on with taking decisions, including around recruitment and investment. That is very much the message that I heard from both business leaders and my fellow finance ministers at the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington last week. All welcomed the Agreement."

"My last point is to say that trust in democracy and bringing an end to the division that has characterised this debate over the past three years, is something that cannot be measured solely through spreadsheets or impact assessments, important though they are. Respecting the referendum and closing this chapter so we can focus on delivering growth and the public services people deserve, is the right thing to do for our country."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840853/211019_CX_to_TSC_Chair.pdf


Essentially forget about numbers, who needs that, it's evident that brexit will be good

Who are they trying to fool with this absolute garage of lies.


Of course The Tories will be insulated from the damage of Brexit as they sit upon their ivory towers, how anyone can vote for Tories is beyond me

LeinsterDub

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

looks like we've gone from Super Saturday, to Manic Monday and now Titanic Tuesday

Reminds me of a caller to J'OB last week
https://twitter.com/Hyena_1953/status/1185476092158791680

serfboard

Interesting research carried out by an accountancy firm about debt levels in the UK:

UHY wrote:

Seaside towns dominate [the] rankings for the areas with the highest levels of personal insolvencies in the UK

Worth remembering that there are 120 seaside constituencies in the UK - 100 of them voted for Brexit.

UHY wrote:

these seaside towns are still a long way from recovering from the decades of contraction in their traditional coastal industries such as tourism, ship-building and fishing.

Think of these towns in the 1950s - absolutely booming and packed full of tourists. Then think of people who grew up during that time knowing nothing but booming local economies. Once cheap jet travel was invented and developed, that was the end of that, and nothing has been done to replace those lost jobs.

There was one place that stood out that was not a seaside town:

UHY wrote:

Stoke-on-Trent took the top spot for the highest personal insolvencies in the UK

Stoke-on-Trent voted to leave by three to one.

Another place that had a booming local industry (pottery) which has now seriously declined. And even one of the non-pottery industries, has shed thousands of jobs:

Wikipedia wrote:

In the 1980s nearly 9,000 workers were employed at the [Michelin] plant; in 2006 about 1,200 worked there.

Of course, the kicking out against London that resulted in people voting to Leave is not news on this thread. However their woefully-misplaced thinking that things couldn't get worse for them is difficult to contemplate. It's also sad to think that they belived in slimy, sleazely, Tory used-car salesmen, who had done so much to cause the problems in the first place.

spacecoyote

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

I dont agree with this.

I think most English people still want Brexit. I dont believe they see the EU the same way Irish and People from the EU mainland.

You may well be right, but one word in your statement is pertinent, English

Polling in Wales, Scotland & NI shows they don't want Brexit, with even the Welsh starting to talk independence. In depth data reviews showed that Welsh speaking areas voted strongly to remain, with the Wales vote skewed by older English who have moved there.

So basically England dragging everyone down with them

Letwin_Larry

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

looks like we've gone from Super Saturday, to Manic Monday and now Titanic Tuesday

That could be quite an accurate description for BJ's WAB if the SNP come on board for any potential Customs Union type amendments.

Professor Moriarty

serfboard wrote: »

Interesting research carried out by an accountancy firm about debt levels in the UK:

Worth remembering that there are 120 seaside constituencies in the UK - 100 of them voted for Brexit.

Think of these towns in the 1950s - absolutely booming and packed full of tourists. Then think of people who grew up during that time knowing nothing but booming local economies. Once cheap jet travel was invented and developed, that was then end of that, and nothing has been done to replace those lost jobs.

There was one place that stood out that was not a seaside town:

Stoke-on-Trent voted to leave by three to one.

Another place that had a booming local industry (pottery) which has now seriously declined. And even one of the non-pottery industries, has shed thousands of jobs:


Of course, the kicking out against London that resulted in people voting to Leave is not news on this thread. However their woefully-misplaced thinking that things couldn't get worse for them is difficult to contemplate. It's also sad to think that they belived in slimy, sleazely, Tory used-car salesmen, who had done so much to cause the problems in the first place.

Excellent post.

Rjd2

GM228 wrote: »

You have to admire Bercow, he is well able for what is thrown at him and gives well reasoned replies unlike others in the HoC, he will be missed when he goes.

Until their is an investigation into those bullying allegations aimed at Bercow, I really wish people would stop putting him on a pedestal.