Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

liamtech

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Dutch politicians have nothing better to do than get involved in a sovereign matter for the UK?

The UK voted to leave.

They should mind their own business.

Bravo - i mean its not like the EU is, ye know,

-being messed about with

-Refereed to in unparliamentary (or what should be unparliamentary terms) in the HOC - imperialist protectionist racket

-Repeatedly accused of interfering in Northern Ireland despite the obvious concern of one of its members

-having its entire process being held up with negotiations, renegotiation's, and further talks

-was being threatened for months, with a No Deal Hard Brexit border being enforced along the frontier of one of its member states, and in contravention of the GFA

Yea those EU people just sticking there noses in - well spotted Kermit

GM228

The next issue now that an extension is likely is the issue of a UK Commissioner.

A Dub in Glasgo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Dutch politicians have nothing better to do than get involved in a sovereign matter for the UK?

The UK voted to leave.

They should mind their own business.

Is it all right for these politicians?

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1185990368795463680

Duane Dibbley

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

if Bercow had not been Speaker for this session, there would have been no scrutiny of the lengths some would have gone to achieve their aims.

I give him 10/10 and wish him a very happy exit from the Speaker's Chair. He will go far.

The next incumbent has a hard act to follow, and I will miss the drama.

Anybody but Eleanor Laing.

briany

liamtech wrote: »

With the Deal bill technically being passed (but not the timetable) - Is it not permissible for the EU Parliament to ratify on their end????

Where is Guy Verhofstadt on this i wonder? - he was rightly infuriating
Oh there he is

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1186733216251691009

You know what they say - if you let bullies know they're getting to you, they'll only get worse. If Farage senses he can annoy EU leaders into cutting the cord, he's only going to act more degenerate.

LeinsterDub

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I will say it again, the method of voting in the HoC is a farce and they need to move with the times

Something modern and efficient like we have in the Dáil perhaps? Can't see anything going wrong with that. At least with their system you actually have to bother to turn up

prawnsambo

briany wrote: »

You know what they say - if you let bullies know they're getting to you, they'll only get worse. If Farage senses he can annoy EU leaders into cutting the cord, he's only going to act more degenerate.

Farage is already in trouble for not declaring his interests. And Arron Banks is passing on the paperwork they need to prove it apparently.

liamtech

briany wrote: »

You know what they say - if you let bullies know they're getting to you, they'll only get worse. If Farage senses he can annoy EU leaders into cutting the cord, he's only going to act more degenerate.

i agree with you but i suspect Farage is less of a 'bully' - more of a 'man who wanders into meetings and screams large amounts of absurd nonsense, which wrecks everyones head'

Nigel Farage has sent a letter to Nigel Farage saying 'I resign'. And Nigel Farage has responded to Nigel Farage saying 'I refuse'. That's the way it works there.

- Manfred WEBER

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nigel_Farage

Besides an election gets the Brexit Party into the HOC, in some form or another~

GM228

Interesting to note the 2016 referendum saw a 52% to 48% result

Johnson won the reading today 52% to 48,%, then the timetable was lost 52% to 48%.

52% must be a magic Brexit number.

liamtech

SKy saying France only supports short technical extension, perhaps even only a few days - not supporting longer extension

LeinsterDub

liamtech wrote: »

SKy saying France only supports short technical extension, perhaps even only a few days - not supporting longer extension

Does the Benn Act allow Johnson to accept an extension shorted than January?

GM228

liamtech wrote: »

SKy saying France only supports short technical extension, perhaps even only a few days - not supporting longer extension

That was the opinion of the French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian in the French Parliament earlier today (not the French president) before the events in the HoC and before Tusk's recommendation.

https://twitter.com/LCP/status/1186652125813792769?s=19

GM228

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Does the Benn Act allow Johnson to accept an extension shorted than January?

Yes, though Parliament have a veto on it.

tuxy

So Boris will want a long enough extension that there is no fear of a no deal brexit and labour can no longer hide from a GE under those grounds.
Then in a few months there will be a new unstable government that barely has a majority and we are in the exact same place again.
I think an extension that is a few years long is needed.

SeaBreezes

J Mysterio wrote: »

That is just totally surreal.

Ha. There was civil war in Ireland after that, over that same piece of paper.

Joe_ Public

GM228 wrote: »

That was the opinion of the French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian in the French Parliament earlier today (not the French president) before the events in the HoC and before Tusk's recommendation.

https://twitter.com/LCP/status/1186652125813792769?s=19

You had macron coming out fairly strongly against an extension before saturdays vote as well. May well be their honest views, but i'm not sure its all completely accidental timing. They are clearly trying to influence the votes, and giving Johnson every assistance they can.

Danzy

Enzokk wrote: »

This is an interesting tweet,

https://twitter.com/TerryReintke/status/1186594060234039302?s=20

So the EU will not hasten the UK in making a decision, it is up to the PM to get his deal through.

As for the votes tonight, Johnson and No.10 has again been shown up and the likes of Kuenssberg that parroted the news that if they would lose the vote program motion they would pull the bill has been shown up for the propaganda machines they are being used for.

As for No.10 claiming this was a vote for his deal, it is this kind of dishonesty that makes my blood boil. Yes there were votes to just get it done but others were to get it to the stage where they could add amendments to the bill as well. It is dishonest, in fact it is lying, to claim this is a vote for his deal. But what do you expect of a liar and cheat running the country.

I am really concerned for the UK, even if we are relatively shielded from the effect of Brexit with the deal we have agreed, but the ordinary person who has been led astray by liars who will suffer the most. It is not fair that these people should suffer because MPs are too freaking lazy to read the bill or are tired of Brexit. They should not suffer because the millionaires in government will be fine and their friends will make a killing from deregulation.

At the end of the day we will suffer as well if the UK suffers long term. They are still an important partner of ours and we should want to see them as strong as possible, but they are making it very hard to root for them to turn this doomed ship around.

Who is Terry Reinkte in the greater scheme of things.

Boris Johnson will be congratulated tomorrow by Brussels for this first vote.

What type or duration of extension he needs will be accommodated.

eagle eye

briany wrote:

You know what they say - if you let bullies know they're getting to you, they'll only get worse. If Farage senses he can annoy EU leaders into cutting the cord, he's only going to act more degenerate.

There are lots of deservedly unkind things said about Johnson and Farage but the word degenerate should never be used.
Just because he wants to leave the EU doesn't make the man a degenerate. Just because he tells lies like pretty much every other politician doesn't make him a degenerate either.
I hope his career ends shortly, no harm on saying things like that but let's keep it real.

Danzy

liamtech wrote: »

SKy saying France only supports short technical extension, perhaps even only a few days - not supporting longer extension

They are saying that to put pressure on MPs to get it over the line as quickly as possible.

Enzokk

eagle eye wrote: »

There are lots of deservedly unkind things said about Johnson and Farage but the word degenerate should never be used.
Just because he wants to leave the EU doesn't make the man a degenerate. Just because he tells lies like pretty much every other politician doesn't make him a degenerate either.
I hope his career ends shortly, no harm on saying things like that but let's keep it real.

Can you list me the lies Corbyn has told in his political career? How about Keir Starmer? Seeing that every other politician lies like Johnson, I am sure you would quickly be able to rustle up a list of their lies like, lie in front of the bulldozers to prevent a 3rd runway.

Joe_ Public

Danzy wrote: »

Who is Terry Reinkte in the greater scheme of things.

Boris Johnson will be congratulated tomorrow by Brussels for this first vote.

What type or duration of extension he needs will be accommodated.

You write that last sentence as if being granted an extension ("i'll die in a ditch before i ask for one") is another great triumph for the glorious leader. I'm not at all convinced to be honest.

Enzokk

Danzy wrote: »

They are saying that to put pressure on MPs to get it over the line as quickly as possible.

Yeah, France will kick up a fuss about an extension but like with the May extensions they will agree to it reluctantly.

is_that_so

prawnsambo wrote: »

A bills stages through the Houses:

HoC
1st reading
2nd reading
Committee stage
Report stage
3rd reading

HoL
1st reading
2nd reading
Committee stage
Report stage
3rd reading

Royal Assent.

BBC ran a timeline on the stages with the 3 day timetable. It would have been in the HOL and done by Friday.

Enzokk

Danzy wrote: »

Who is Terry Reinkte in the greater scheme of things.

Boris Johnson will be congratulated tomorrow by Brussels for this first vote.

What type or duration of extension he needs will be accommodated.

I don't know but I posted it to provide some balance to the thoughts that the EU was getting tired of the UK and Brexit. This is a contrary view and not the only one that they will give the UK the time it needs to find out what it wants. She also helpfully provided a solution to a yes/no question which the brilliant minds at the UK want to avoid.

It is amazing to me that consensus is that a general election that has a multitude of factors determining the result is thought to be the solution to Brexit which has a simple yes/no question at the heart of it.

briany

eagle eye wrote: »

There are lots of deservedly unkind things said about Johnson and Farage but the word degenerate should never be used.
Just because he wants to leave the EU doesn't make the man a degenerate. Just because he tells lies like pretty much every other politician doesn't make him a degenerate either.
I hope his career ends shortly, no harm on saying things like that but let's keep it real.

I was referring to his penchant for being disruptive and disrespectful in the EU parliament. Something that he and his Brexit party (formerly UKIP) cronies are well-known for. He thinks he's in the House of Commons with the heckling and cat-calling his lot do, but the HoC it is not. You could respect Farage if he was delivering his points in a more civilised manner, but now I really think he's going to double-down on his efforts to annoy everyone in the EUP, especially Verhofstadt.

is_that_so

Enzokk wrote: »

Yeah, France will kick up a fuss about an extension but like with the May extensions they will agree to it reluctantly.

I think they'll seek clarification from Boris on what's needed. He doesn't care because whatever it is it will have been an EU decision and not his.

SeaBreezes

eagle eye wrote: »

There are lots of deservedly unkind things said about Johnson and Farage but the word degenerate should never be used.
Just because he wants to leave the EU doesn't make the man a degenerate. Just because he tells lies like pretty much every other politician doesn't make him a degenerate either.
I hope his career ends shortly, no harm on saying things like that but let's keep it real.

degenerate
adjective
/dɪˈdʒɛn(ə)rət/
1.
having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable...

If the hat fits....

is_that_so

joe40 wrote: »

I thought I had a handle on this Brexit but must admit now I'm confused and apologies if this stupid but is this where we are now?
The deal has been passed but not the timetable.
MPs have supported the deal but then want to add amendment s which will change the deal they have supported. So they're not really supporting the deal. Is that what is happening now or have I got it all wrong?

They voted for the second stage, so it can go forward for amendment and debate but they rejected the 3 day timetable. For now yes it is true they are supporting the deal but we can expect amendments. The next step will probably be Boris consulting the EU on an extension so they can debate and amend and so he can blame the EU for Britain not leaving next week.

FrancieBrady

According to Newsnight Boris is on the phone tonight to EU telling them that he thinks he can get deal over the line and he only needs a few days extension.

briany

is_that_so wrote: »

They voted for the second stage, so it can go forward for amendment and debate but they rejected the 3 day timetable. For now yes it is true they are supporting the deal but we can expect amendments. The next step will probably be Boris consulting the EU on an extension so they can debate and amend and so he can blame the EU for Britain not leaving next week.

What are the likely amendments to the deal, and which have the best chance of actually being tacked on? The 2nd ref is one that's being currently mooted, but when it comes down to it, I don't see that getting the numbers. The independent Conservatives will see to that, I'd say.