Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

BarryD2

CelticRambler wrote: »

Who do you mean by "we" - boards members? the Irish government? the EU negotiating team? Whichever group, "we" haven't been short of ideas - but all of them require an acknowledgement by the British that invoking Art.50 without a clear plan was ... unwise ... and then drawing mutually incompatible, unshiftable red lines was downright idiotic. Those two steps created the situation where the only two realistic options are a crash-out Brexit or another referendum.

We - us, living in this Republic.

There's no point in lecturing the Brits as to how 'unwise' or 'idiotic' they were. Won't do us any good. They may need a bit of support to get out of the mess, ideally by reversing it, that's what 'we' should focus on.

briany

Roger_007 wrote: »

Is Rees-Mogg still awake? Maybe if a few more members leave he could stretch out and have a proper nap.

The disinterestedness which Mogg affects gives me the impression that Mogg doesn't really care what his political opponents have to say. Does he pull the same stunt when constituents come to him with their concerns? I'm sure there's coffee on offer in the Commons tearoom if he really battles with staying awake.

Thargor

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Apart from the SC ruling, there appear to be absolutely NO consequences for behaviours like Johnson's and his trailing rump now.

Imagine sacking 21 of your party MPs, proroguing parliament, lying, deceiving, obfuscating and so on. Unbelievable.

But here we are, and it may only get worse.

People like him and Trump and other right-wingers being so invincible is genuinely terrifying these days, no clue where it will lead.

J Mysterio

Love how strong this is from Surgeon. "I feel disgust watching Johnson." :pac:

The man is clearly unfit to be PM

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1176939564021235712

For Forks Sake

And just when you thought he couldn't go any lower, there's the sound of the bottom of the barrel being scraped through

"In the House of Commons, @BorisJohnson has just said the words: "The best way to honour Jo Cox's memory is to get Brexit done."

https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1176942475598008320?s=19

Professor Moriarty

Ah! It's sorted. Current main headline in The Express:

Brexit LIVE: Boris confirms Brexit deal is being REOPENED by EU – breakthrough imminent

Itssoeasy

So boris Johnson just said in response to a conservative MP asking if members of that party voted against a deal the PM may get that they should have the whip removed and be barred from standing as a conservative. I mean apparently that's the standard now but yet many members of the same party including the current PM and leader of the house voted more than once against the former PMs deal yet didn't lose the whip and presumably will stand for the upcoming election as conservatives. An utter farce.

prawnsambo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Johnson and his cohorts are basically trolling the HoC

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1176934557586788352

I suspect that it's an attempt to goad them into a VoNC. He has nothing to lose and of course it plays well to his base. He's just back from his top up indoctrination in the 'Trump method' let's not forget.

Headshot

J Mysterio wrote: »

Love how strong this is from Surgeon. "I feel disgust watching Johnson." :pac:

The man is clearly unfit to be PM

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1176939564021235712

I have so much respect and admiration for her. One of the most capable leaders in the UK and the likes of Boris, Corbyn wouldnt even get close to her level

If she was English she would be PM right now

Itssoeasy

And given that jo cox's memory has been brought up several times, whatever else you may have thought about David Cameron and Theresa May on other issues including brexit, you can't deny they at least seemed genuine in their praise of jo cox since she died.

devnull

Itssoeasy wrote: »

And given that jo cox's memory has been brought up several times, whatever else you may have thought about David Cameron and Theresa May on other issues including brexit, you can't deny they at least seemed genuine in their praise of jo cox since she died.

Honestly, I'm no fan of Cameron and May, but at least they had some morals and had some idea of the difference been right and wrong. They made some serious gaffes and mistakes and ridiculous decisions, but at least they showed a little bit of respect to people.

Boris is just a bully whose only objective is to get what he wants, laws, morals and what is right or not doesn't matter to him.

Spanish Eyes

devnull wrote: »

Complete disgrace, the man is acting like fascist dictator and nothing will stop him getting what he wants, be that law, parliament, the courts. Doesn't even seem to care about using Jo Cox's death for his own games.

The guy has no morals and is completely unfit for office. I'm honestly speechless at the moment, nothing would surprise me now, he has no moral standards, none whatsoever.

My open mouthed shock at him is more a result of the fact that there appear to be no consequences whatsoever for what he is doing.

Water John

If Johnson thought this was the approach to use, he really has poor judgement.
Make some effort to address the question.

PropJoe10

Disgraceful, shambolic and embarrassing performance from Johnson tonight. He should resign. He's totally out of his depth in every conceivable way.

devnull

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

My open mouthed shock at him is more a result of the fact that there appear to be no consequences whatsoever for what he is doing.

It was said politics had to change in Parliament after the death of Jo Cox.

The only change that has happened has been for the worse and everyone has forgotten about when those statements were made and if he keeps whipping up division like he is now you can easily see someone going too far, but for sure he'll probably claim they were provoked and it's all the remainers fault.

Tonight has been a new low in British political history, the standard of debate in the house has been a complete disgrace and I have to give credit to all of the opposition parties for showing controlled passion since honestly they are being trolled, intimidated and bullied by an adult child.

Tell me how

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Disgraceful, shambolic and embarrassing performance from Johnson tonight. He should resign. He's totally out of his depth in every conceivable way.

But, he seems to have become emboldened as the evening has gone on. He is less frustrated or hesitant than he was at the start and also is now using antagonistic language very comfortably.

Headshot

I cannot recall in my life time a more detestable and horrible person as UK PM.

He's right up there with Tump.

The likes of May and Cameron had their faults but you felt that they were at least competent and some what respectable but BJ it just on a whole different level of hatred all together.

He constantly vomits up lies and his language like "surrender" is feeding hatred in the UK

Professor Moriarty

Tell me how wrote: »

But, he seems to have become emboldened as the evening has gone on. He is less frustrated or hesitant than he was at the start and also is now using antagonistic language very comfortably.

Emboldened or authoritarian.

Thargor

Ah this is nauseating now, he's just giving the same stock answer over and over.

PropJoe10

Tell me how wrote: »

But, he seems to have become emboldened as the evening has gone on. He is less frustrated or hesitant than he was at the start and also is now using antagonistic language very comfortably.

Yep. He seems to be taking the approach of "well, I'm not intelligent enough to actually answer questions put to me, so I might as well try to belittle everyone instead and take the focus off that". Disgraceful stuff from a UK PM. At least Theresa May had dignity and integrity.

Professor Moriarty

Headshot wrote: »

I cannot recall in my life time a more detestable and horrible person as UK PM.

He's right up there with Tump.

The likes of May and Cameron had their faults but you felt that they were at least competent and some what respectable but BJ it just on a whole different level of hatred all together.

He constantly vomits up lies and his language like "surrender" is feeding hatred in the UK

A Tory MP asked him to stop using the word 'surrender'. TrumpJohnson denied using the word.

Tell me how

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Emboldened or authoritarian.

Same difference.

I think emboldened given his tone has increased in tempo rather than becoming more sinister. It's still sinister and disrespectful, it makes a mockery of the purpose of exchanges within the HoC when he can ignore or discount points that are made without consequence.

I say without consequence because when the day of voting comes, it is likely 90% of the electorate will vote in ways which we are already know. The majority are not for changing, that's how damaged politics is in the UK at this point.

Spanish Eyes

devnull wrote: »

It was said politics had to change in Parliament after the death of Jo Cox.

The only change that has happened has been for the worse and everyone has forgotten about when those statements were made and if he keeps whipping up division like he is now you can easily see someone going too far, but for sure he'll probably claim they were provoked and it's all the remainers fault.

Tonight has been a new low in British political history, the standard of debate in the house has been a complete disgrace and I have to give credit to all of the opposition parties for showing controlled passion since honestly they are being trolled, intimidated and bullied by an adult child.

Debbie Abrahams in the Chamber just now has said it all for me.

For sure the opposition is restrained, but I don't know how they do it without blowing their tops.

Re Johnson, there is a huge difference between being highly educated, and having common sense and a modicum of emotional intelligence.

I really believe Johnson is a sociopath.

But there are no consequences, until a GE boots him out, which might not happen either, the opposite in fact.

I often wonder about the perception and free thinking of those who would vote for the Tories now. Not that Labour have inspired confidence either. What a total mess.

quokula

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Yep. He seems to be taking the approach of "well, I'm not intelligent enough to actually answer questions put to me, so I might as well try to belittle everyone instead and take the focus off that". Disgraceful stuff from a UK PM. At least Theresa May had dignity and integrity.

Let’s not get carried away - Theresa May’s government were found in contempt of parliament, she set the red lines that have led us to this situation, she was responsible for the Go Home vans, the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal, she repeatedly made baseless accusations against the EU and for most of her premiership she cosied up to the ERG rather than looking for consensus across parliament.

Boris is a new low though, no doubt about that.

Tell me how

Can you imagine what they make of this in the office of Donald Tusk, Barnier or Simon Coveney with all this talk of bringing back a deal from the EU summit in the middle of October.

Has anyone seen any comment on twitter from any of the above?

This must be a record for the number of members whose opening comment lambasted the PM for their tone.

Spanish Eyes

Bringing Jo Cox into it saying her memory would ensure Brexit (or words to that effect), was totally unforgivable.

But the debate goes on regardless. There is no hope now, I wish there was, but I am totally disillusioned now.

Kermit.de.frog

While this fool uses the language he does in the House of Commons MP's have been posting examples of the increasing amount of threats they have been getting

https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1176946192992952326

listermint

Johnson has a game he's playing and it's to rile every single one of the opposition benches up as far as be can so they'll go with no confidence.

He wants his election.

This is what he wants. And he thinks he can win on a full hard throttle brexit message.


Personally I don't think this stuff plays out well with the middle voters. He may get a shock

GM228

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you imagine what they make of this in the office of Donald Tusk, Barnier or Simon Coveney with all this talk of bringing back a deal from the EU summit in the middle of October.

Has anyone seen any comment on twitter from any of the above?

This must be a record for the number of members whose opening comment lambasted the PM for their tone.

We have seen the way he acts in Parliament for all to see, I can only imagine how he acts in private, I would say tonight is no eye opener for any of them.

listermint

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

While this fool uses the language he does in the House of Commons MP's have been posting examples of the increasing amount of threats they have been getting

https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1176946192992952326

Biggest problem is he rags that people are consuming do not and will not cover these stories.

The BBC won't cover these stories.

So only one message is getting out.