Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

20silkcut

Rjd2 wrote: »

The issue with the discourse in Brexit neither side will call out their sides shocking behavior. Cox was terrible yesterday and got criticised rightfully but Bary Sherman roaring all Gammon esque was terrible. He was playing to the crowd and that really set up what was a volatile day.

Then the reaction to Boris who was rightfully called out. David Lammy sulking about it a man who called the ERG Nazis, and Bercow a man who allegedly bullied a women into quitting her job telling MPS they need to do better. :rolleyes:

Its ****ed now really, Leavers have been called Nazis, fascists while remainers have been called remoaners, snowflakes etc.

The Lib Dem who made the proposal that they would vote for the Boris deal if they could take it to the country was a rare moment of common sense and non grand standing last night, obviously shot down instantly.

That lib dem video of them singing about Tony Blair and the bollocks to brexit slogan doesn’t do them any favors either. Politics in Britain is very crude at the moment.

Strazdas

Tell me how wrote: »

I've said it already. I see what is going on and how it is being done has Steve Bannon's fingerprints all over it. Maybe I'm being too cynical but the similarities between the invective in the US and here and the relationships amongst some of the key people involved makes me think it is extremely likely to be the case.

Maybe it just goes as far as cummings seeing how Trump succeeded and deciding to copy that playbook but I wouldn't be surprised if there is even more direct contact.

It suggests though that Johnson and Cummings are dangerous. Appeal to the bigots and win at all costs.

GM228

Rumours are Johnson will attempt to use Part 2 of the Contingencies Act 2004 for "emergency" powers to make the Benn Act null and void.

He really does seem intent on trying anything to crash out.

L1011

GM228 wrote: »

Rumours are Johnson will attempt to use Part 2 of the Contingencies Act 2004 for "emergency" powers to make the Benn Act null and void.

He really does seem intent on trying anything to crash out.

Like that won't end up in the SC also

prunudo

GM228 wrote: »

Rumours are Johnson will attempt to use Part 2 of the Contingencies Act 2004 for "emergency" powers to make the Benn Act null and void.

He really does seem intent on trying anything to crash out.

Wouldn't surprise me that they have some sort of dirty trick up their sleeves. Anything to get out by Oct 31st no matter the costs.

Enzokk

GM228 wrote: »

Rumours are Johnson will attempt to use Part 2 of the Contingencies Act 2004 for "emergency" powers to make the Benn Act null and void.

He really does seem intent on trying anything to crash out.

Wait, will he claim the vitriol and death threats to MPs is enough to enact emergency powers? That is going to court surely again, he cannot instigate the violence and them claim power due to that. I hope I have it wrong and that is not the way he will go.

VinLieger

GM228 wrote: »

Rumours are Johnson will attempt to use Part 2 of the Contingencies Act 2004 for "emergency" powers to make the Benn Act null and void.

He really does seem intent on trying anything to crash out.

Im not sure that solution is as cut and dry as brexiteers would have us believe

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/could-government-deliver-brexit-declaring-national-emergency

Enzokk

This thread is related to it, was posted already on the 8th September so he either foresaw a situation where it might be used or the rumors was already swirling that this is their plan.

##Mod Snip##

Don't dump reams of tweets - Paraphrase and link please!



So according to David Allen Green this will be hard to do and could easily be stopped by either parliament or the courts. Classic Dom I guess.

Rjd2

20silkcut wrote: »

That lib dem video of them singing about Tony Blair and the bollocks to brexit slogan doesn’t do them any favors either. Politics in Britain is very crude at the moment.

Swinson said her kid got abuse the other day so can understand why that is her biggest issue but it would be nice for her and other lib dems to call it out.

Happens at every Lib Dem convention and its not a good look for the supposed adults in the room.

On Lammy regarding the ERG, they are crap, but surely he can use less offensive language? Johnson yesterday could have said surrender bill once and not repeated it. Traitor and betrayals other words that are horribly overused also.

Should say Thornberry referring to the lib dems as the taliban is another example.

Its pointless to say which side is worse as so many examples, but its pretty brutal right now.

I hope I am wrong, but I could see an MP getting attacked soon and would not be shocked if it was a leaver even though obviously the type who carry out such attacks are more likely to lean towards leave.

The Philips incident obviously highlighting it.

And then this,,I don't like Caulfield, but that is pretty ****.

Would hate to be a female MP leave or remain right now.


https://twitter.com/mariacaulfield/status/1177246605445124098

J Mysterio

John Major thinks Johnson will attempt to use an 'Order of Council' to bypass the Benn Bill and crash the UK out of the EU.

John Major Describes The 'Political Chicanery' He Worries Boris Johnson Will Use To Get No-Deal Brexit

A Dub in Glasgo

An Order of Council (not to be confused with an Order in Council) is a specific way of creating a law without the personal approval of the Queen.

Instead, members of the Privy Council, former and current Senior parliamentarians and members of the civil service, can pass laws and bypass the monarch.

So laws to disable parliamentary laws can be created without parliament say so by advisors to the Monarch who can decide what laws the Monarch can personally approve or not... funny kind of democracy the UK has

J Mysterio

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So laws to disable parliamentary laws can be created without parliament say so by advisors to the Monarch who can decide what laws the Monarch can personally approve or not... funny kind of democracy the UK has

Seems it has all operated on a 'gentlemans agreement'. Strip away the gentlemen (and women) and... you're screwed?

GM228

Enzokk wrote: »

So according to David Allen Green this will be hard to do and could easily be stopped by either parliament or the courts. Classic Dom I guess.

I agree with him that it is likely an impossible scenario for Johnson to achieve, buy Johnson is good at trying and failing.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So laws to disable parliamentary laws can be created without parliament say so by advisors to the Monarch who can decide what laws the Monarch can personally approve or not... funny kind of democracy the UK has

An Order of Council can only be used to exercise a prerogative power or one expressly authorized by Statute, I can't think of what power John Major is suggesting he could use to make legislation null and void unless he is also referring to the emergency regulations provisions of the 2004 Act I mentioned which allows the PM to make such regulations.

Professor Moriarty

J Mysterio wrote: »

Seems it has all operated on a 'gentlemans agreement'. Strip away the gentlemen (and women) and... you're screwed?

Why don't they just put an amendment to the constitution to the people in a referendum? Simples.

Itssoeasy

Tell me how wrote: »

Boris Johnson's sister discussing his motivations for using the language he has been using.

https://twitter.com/LittleGravitas/status/1177209400332881921

His. sister.

This after his brother resigned from his government.

Oh no3 won't help here with the hadd brexit crowd.

prawnsambo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So laws to disable parliamentary laws can be created without parliament say so by advisors to the Monarch who can decide what laws the Monarch can personally approve or not... funny kind of democracy the UK has

It's their so-called constitution again. It's a mess of law piled on top of convention and precedent with loopholes and contradictions everywhere. And it only works by consent (i.e. convention).

Quin_Dub

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's their so-called constitution again. It's a mess of law piled on top of convention and precedent with loopholes and contradictions everywhere. And it only works by consent (i.e. convention).

You can see both in the UK and the US that a lot of what people assumed were laws and regulations around the Governments are actually just traditions and behavioural norms.

They are now discovering the damage that can occur when you have people in power that do not conform to those traditions and behaviours..

Strazdas

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's their so-called constitution again. It's a mess of law piled on top of convention and precedent with loopholes and contradictions everywhere. And it only works by consent (i.e. convention).

Cameron blew the whole thing wide open by pitching a referendum against the Parliament and claiming the referendum was binding and that it could never be reversed by anyone.

Enter name here

Quin_Dub wrote: »

You can see both in the UK and the US that a lot of what people assumed were laws and regulations around the Governments are actually just traditions and behavioural norms.

They are now discovering the damage that can occur when you have people in power that do not conform to those traditions and behaviours..

Correct, Bercow should have been removed from the chair the 1st time he bent the rules and showed his bias. Then the whole thing would be over by now.

A Dub in Glasgo

Enter name here wrote: »

Then the whole thing would be over by now.

In what way would it have been over?

Professor Moriarty

Enter name here wrote: »

Correct, Bercow should have been removed from the chair the 1st time he bent the rules and showed his bias. Then the whole thing would be over by now.

Yes. Obviously it's all Bercow's fault.

prawnsambo

Strazdas wrote: »

Cameron blew the whole thing wide open by pitching a referendum against the Parliament and claiming the referendum was binding and that it could never be reversed by anyone.

Interestingly, Cummings' uncle (a very eminent lawyer apparently) said much the same in an interview with the New Statesman. Basically that Cameron had pitted direct democracy against representative democracy and that the dangers were clear and obvious.

Harry Palmr

It's not often I watch The Pledge on Sky News but just a reminder it starts in 20 minutes, let's see to watch extent Rachel Johnson holds forth. Oh and David Cameron part deux is on BBC One!

Akabusi

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Not sure I see your optimism

If Labour still perform broadly as before and Lib Dems only gaining 10-15 seats, they will still be behind. The only way it can work is if the SNP are in the equation and they will inisist on a section 30 order to hold an independence referendum in Scotland (not the same thing as independence for Scotland). Swinson has performed verbal gymnastics about mandates and second referendums where most folk see her hypocrisy. she may even lose her seat

That's very possible, although I just can't see passed the silent moderate people coming out and voting in this one. Also all the explosions of decent Tories has to hit somehow, will they stand as independents or just over to the Lib Dems. If they do go to the Lib Dems I think most of them get back in.

Joe_ Public

Rjd2 wrote: »

Swinson said her kid got abuse the other day so can understand why that is her biggest issue but it would be nice for her and other lib dems to call it out.

Happens at every Lib Dem convention and its not a good look for the supposed adults in the room.

On Lammy regarding the ERG, they are crap, but surely he can use less offensive language? Johnson yesterday could have said surrender bill once and not repeated it. Traitor and betrayals other words that are horribly overused also.

Should say Thornberry referring to the lib dems as the taliban is another example.

Its pointless to say which side is worse as so many examples, but its pretty brutal right now.

I hope I am wrong, but I could see an MP getting attacked soon and would not be shocked if it was a leaver even though obviously the type who carry out such attacks are more likely to lean towards leave.

The Philips incident obviously highlighting it.

And then this,,I don't like Caulfield, but that is pretty ****.

Would hate to be a female MP leave or remain right now.


https://twitter.com/mariacaulfield/status/1177246605445124098

Agree with you of course, but just to be fair, Emily Thornberry did at least have the good grace to apologise for that taliban comment and clearly regretted it. I was thoroughly dismayed, however, to see her colleague Neil Coyle totally lose his head in a twitter spat with Piers Morgan. Not only does it give the right wingers an easy excuse to resort to whatabouttery, but the likes of Morgan are just not worth it. The Michelle Obama stay high doctrine should be indelibly branded into all their souls.

VinLieger

Apparently Labour, Lib Dems and SNP are planning a bill to change the voting age to 16+ for next week, genius move if true and they can get it passed, potentially gurantees a remain result in a 2nd referendum

Kermit.de.frog

Cummings quoted in tomorrow's Telegraph...

Dominic Cummings said it was “not surprising that some people are angry” about the delay to Brexit and found it “odd” that MPs who caused the impasse were taken aback by it.

Mr Cummings, who masterminded the Vote Leave campaign before being hired as Mr Johnson’s Downing Street strategist, said he and others who fought for Leave “are enjoying this”, adding: “We are going to win, we are going to leave, don’t worry.”

listermint

The dogs on the street know this whole bizarre episode is to the benefit a very slim few multi millionaires. It's solely to benefit their bets , their pending transactions in a disaster market fire sale , their reduction of standards and labour rights to reduce their costs and boost their profits.

Its beyond bizarre that the man on the street is screaming and shouting for it.

Theres no restraint required these people are morons. There isn't another word. Morons.

Bannasidhe

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Cummings quoted in tomorrow's Telegraph...

It's all a big game to him.
Which is a very frightening thought.

A Dub in Glasgo

VinLieger wrote: »

Apparently Labour, Lib Dems and SNP are planning a bill to change the voting age to 16+ for next week

Been in place since 2014 for the Scottish independence referendum, Scottish parliament elections and Scottish local elections

Interesting enough, in post ref polling, most 16 & 17 year olds may have voted against Scottish independence :pac: