Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

FrancieBrady

CrabRevolution wrote: »

There can't be too many issues (especially one on what "Britain" means) where Sinn Féin and the Brexit Party are 100% in agreement.....

'Britain' is England Scotland and Wales (and the smaller islands off it Isle of Wight etc), the United Kingdom is Britain and NI.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Britain' is England Scotland and Wales (and the smaller islands off it Isle of Wight etc), the United Kingdom is Britain and NI.

Indeed yet unionists consider themselves "british", square that circle however you want but this is a pretty obvious dismissal of them.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Indeed yet unionists consider themselves "british", square that circle however you want but this is a pretty obvious dismissal of them.

They cannot say they were not warned about how this would pan out.
Unionism was trenchantly against a Border Poll, not because they might lose it the first or second time around, but because they didn't want the conversation about a UI to start.
Their actions over Brexit has inadvertently opened that conversation and worse, opened one in Britain itself, about how they see NI.

As the poster said...it's not good for them.

quokula

With SNP now announcing their support for a Corbyn led unity government, a pretty clear path to ending the Brexit crisis is starting to open up. Surely it's not tenable for the Lib Dems to maintain the position of "we don't want Brexit, but we'd rather have no deal than work with Labour"

prawnsambo

quokula wrote: »

With SNP now announcing their support for a Corbyn led unity government, a pretty clear path to ending the Brexit crisis is starting to open up. Surely it's not tenable for the Lib Dems to maintain the position of "we don't want Brexit, but we'd rather have no deal than work with Labour"

I thought they'd dropped that?

quokula

Strazdas wrote: »

Brendan O'Neill urging people to riot :

https://twitter.com/MonarchyUK/status/1177549862348480512

(That should be the end of his TV career, but extremists on TV are the norm these days)

I don't understand how he's so often on TV in the first place. If you look at who pays him to have these opinions (Koch Foundation, i.e. the US based orgnaisation responsible for pushing climate denial, the rise of the far right, known in the past for spreading pro-smoking disinformation for big tobacco amongst many other questionable activities), he's no right to be spreading that propaganda on a supposed public service channel in the UK.

Strazdas

quokula wrote: »

I don't understand how he's so often on TV in the first place. If you look at who pays him to have these opinions (Koch Foundation, i.e. the US based orgnaisation responsible for pushing climate denial, the rise of the far right, known in the past for spreading pro-smoking disinformation for big tobacco amongst many other questionable activities), he's no right to be spreading that propaganda on a supposed public service channel in the UK.

In Ireland, it would be like some dissident Republican type (Saoradh or whatever they're called) being invited on as a media commentator. The guy is an out and out extremist.

Infini

quokula wrote: »

With SNP now announcing their support for a Corbyn led unity government, a pretty clear path to ending the Brexit crisis is starting to open up. Surely it's not tenable for the Lib Dems to maintain the position of "we don't want Brexit, but we'd rather have no deal than work with Labour"

Any source on that, I would not assume Jeremy being able to get over the mark right now unless the rest of the opposition were to agree as wel.

Water John

I presume some UK citizen will Brendan O'Neill to the attention of the police, via a complaint.

Mancomb Seepgood

Strazdas wrote: »

In Ireland, it would be like some dissident Republican type (Saoradh or whatever they're called) being invited on as a media commentator. The guy is an out and out extremist.

Incidentally he has supported dissident republicans in the past.Toxic character.

A Dub in Glasgo

Strazdas wrote: »

Brendan O'Neill urging people to riot :

https://twitter.com/MonarchyUK/status/1177549862348480512

(That should be the end of his TV career, but extremists on TV are the norm these days)

I have put a complaint in to the BBC, the first one I have done since I came here :pac:

I hear the BBC normally try to weasel out of these things

GM228

The new "Civility in Politics" awards:-

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1177578227348508672?s=19

One of the more unusual results of sorts steming from the whole Brexit mess.

A Dub in Glasgo

Infini wrote: »

Any source on that, I would not assume Jeremy being able to get over the mark right now unless the rest of the opposition were to agree as wel.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1177562148937064449

fash

For Forks Sake wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Michael42683163/status/1177121447317254144?s=19

Oof, these are bad days to be an Ulster Unionist, wanted by no-one at this stage

Brexit means brexit - nobody said nothing about UKexit...

GM228

Panrich wrote: »

Another avenue that is under consideration

https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-government-plan-to-invoke-eu-laws-supremacy-to-ensure-brexit-on-halloween/

I have a fear that there is a smugness behind the certainty about leaving on the 31st October that means they have something from left field up their skeeve.

They are getting desperate, whilst the doctrine of the Supremecy of EU law is a very real thing it should be noted it only applies to matters concerning community law (as already previously confirmed by the European Court of Justice matters relating to Article 50 are sovereign matters for the UK), as such issues relating to Article 50 are purely domestic and so the doctrine does not apply.

beggars_bush

Strazdas wrote: »

In Ireland, it would be like some dissident Republican type (Saoradh or whatever they're called) being invited on as a media commentator. The guy is an out and out extremist.

Or a lad from the Iona institute constantly cropping up spouting nonsense

Sam Russell

fash wrote: »

Brexit means brexit - nobody said nothing about UKexit...

I understand the term including NI would be UKoff rather than UKexit.

Joe_ Public

quokula wrote: »

With SNP now announcing their support for a Corbyn led unity government, a pretty clear path to ending the Brexit crisis is starting to open up. Surely it's not tenable for the Lib Dems to maintain the position of "we don't want Brexit, but we'd rather have no deal than work with Labour"

Well, that's one interpretation of the Liberal Democrat position. I would agree their position does come across a bit disingenuous. They say they wont support Jeremy Corbyn because he can't command the support of the rebel tory mps, but when you've had their party leader declaring Corbyn "unfit for office", lumping him in with the pm, it does rather come across as a personal thing being put ahead of the politics. There's absolutely nothing to stop them backing him and, if that fails, then get behind someone else. They can pull the plug on it anytime they like after the necessary business is done.

An Ciarraioch

German poll on Brexit:

Q1. Who will be most to blame for a no deal Brexit?

GB 81%, EU 10%, Don't Know 9%

Q2. Should the EU make concessions to avoid a no deal Brexit?

Yes 15%, No 77%, Don't Know 8%

https://m.imgur.com/a/ZrslQj2

BorneTobyWilde

Who is Cummings, he looks like some homeless guy who drifted in off the street. Where does his power over everyone come from? What has he over everyone to be so influential

boggerman1

Strazdas wrote: »

Brendan O'Neill urging people to riot :

https://twitter.com/MonarchyUK/status/1177549862348480512

(That should be the end of his TV career, but extremists on TV are the norm these days)

Wow,Brendan really jumped the shark today with that one.hope dunphy takes him up on that on his next appearance on his podcasts

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Who is Cummings, he looks like some homeless guy who drifted in off the street. Where does his power over everyone come from? What has he over everyone to be so influential

Ran the Leave campaign. Has nothing to lose politically so can do what he wants.

Joe_ Public

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Who is Cummings, he looks like some homeless guy who drifted in off the street. Where does his power over everyone come from? What has he over everyone to be so influential

Good questions, he's the "evil genius" who masterminded the leave vote, apparently, and is going to finish the job whatever it takes. Comes across a Steve Bannon type to me, but with the critical difference that he has absolutely no conscience and will go right to the brink and cause total chaos to try and get what he wants. Which makes him a very dangerous individual and not to be underestimated under any circumstances.

Jizique

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Who is Cummings, he looks like some homeless guy who drifted in off the street. Where does his power over everyone come from? What has he over everyone to be so influential

He is fairly well connected - didn't he go to Eton and then Oxford?
His uncle is a very leading law lord. Spent alot of time in Russia, which is interesting for someone who now has his views..
Married into big money as well, some castle in Northumberland.

A Dub in Glasgo

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Who is Cummings, he looks like some homeless guy who drifted in off the street. Where does his power over everyone come from? What has he over everyone to be so influential

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Cummings

He has worked with Gove for a long time

GM228

For Forks Sake wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Michael42683163/status/1177121447317254144?s=19

Oof, these are bad days to be an Ulster Unionist, wanted by no-one at this stage

I would love to start a semantic argument with him pointing out that his statement "the Brexit Party only stands in Britain as it is a British party" translates as "the Brexit Party only stands in England and Wales as it is a United Kingdom party" based on the proper meaning of Britain (as opposed to Great Britain) and British.

Britain was the official name given to the kingdom of England and the principality of Wales (derived from Britannia), one could say it became great with Scotland, British in modern usage covers the people of the UK.

joe40

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Cummings

He has worked with Gove for a long time

Apparently David Cameron called him a career psychopath. Not that I have any great store in Cameroon's judgement, but in this case he might be right.

joe40

GM228 wrote: »

I would love to start a semantic argument with him pointing out that his statement "the Brexit Party only stands in Britain as it is a British party" translates as "the Brexit Party only stands in England and Wales as it is a United Kingdom party" based on the proper meaning of Britain (as opposed to Great Britain) and British.

Britain is the official name given to the kingdom of England and the principality of Wales with it becoming great to cover Scotland, British in modern usage covers the people of the UK.

I always assumed Britain referred to the "Island" comprising England Scotland and Wales. learn something new everyday.

Zubeneschamali

GM228 wrote: »

I would love to start a semantic argument with him pointing out that his statement "the Brexit Party only stands in Britain as it is a British party" translates as "the Brexit Party only stands in England and Wales as it is a United Kingdom party" based on the proper meaning of Britain

But in fact that is true, the Brexit party are nowhere in Scotland or Northern Ireland.

They are really the English Nationalist Party.

joe_99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Britain' is England Scotland and Wales (and the smaller islands off it Isle of Wight etc), the United Kingdom is Britain and NI.

Political Britain is different than geographical Britain.