Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

boggerman1

Ray bassat on Sean O'Rourke show spouting nonsense about how we should leave the EU to help Britain.and he's still drawing a state pension.a joke

murphaph

What is in Bassett's background that he believes so firmly that we should be the UK's lap dog?

newport2

joe40 wrote: »

Why would Britain put in a proposal, and now Boris Johnson say, this morning, it is not our real proposal, we have something else but we're not saying what it is.
It is beyond a joke.

Because the proposal doesn't matter, they are banking on it being rejected.

There's no way Boris brings any sort of a deal back from Brussels before a general election. If he does - no matter how good the deal is - the Brexit Party will eat him alive, along with Labour sticking the boot in too. No way either will support him or any deal he presents. He'd be accused of "surrendering" to the EU and it would ruin his chances of a majority in an election, which is his top priority.

There will be either an attempt to get out on the 31st with no deal (looks pretty much impossible), or most likely an extension will be sought and he can blame the opposition for blocking him and say to the electorate he needs a majority to deliver Brexit.

Water John

See what you did there, Murph.

Once an Ext is sought the the Tories are competing with the Brexit party for votes, exactly like the last byelection.

Sam Russell

boggerman1 wrote: »

Ray bassat on Sean O'Rourke show spouting nonsense about how we should leave the EU to help Britain.and he's still drawing a state pension.a joke

An honest politician is one who,once bought, stays bought.

CelticRambler

A vox-pop of sorts from Boris' constituency on Bloomberg: (my bold)

Like nine of the 11 constituents interviewed for this article, Wright said he still thinks Johnson is doing his best in an intractable situation. Most offered sympathy to the prime minister in the same way as they did to his predecessor, Theresa May. She failed to get her Brexit deal through Parliament and was forced to resign, ushering in Johnson’s “do or die” approach to leaving the EU on Oct. 31.

“He has been voted by his party to do what people voted,” said Caroline Valentina, 32, manager at a restaurant in central Uxbridge. She’s not sure how she will vote yet. “He seems to be stopped every time he tries to do something and he gets his character assassinated. I don’t know who he is, but if we had to judge him by his job, he’s trying to do something.”

“He’s got a very tough job to do, I do sympathize in a way,” said Michelle Butler, 50, the manager of a hairdressing salon. What about his language and the way he angers Parliament? “I probably wouldn’t agree with that, it’s harsh,” she said. “But that’s Boris, that’s what he does.”

“People have high expectations and want him to deliver on things very quickly without giving him any kind of fair opportunity to do so,” said Rob Try, 39, an accountant at a travel company. “You need to give him a chance and see what he can deliver really. He’s doing the best he can – but it’s a mammoth task.”

“His hands are tied. The MPs are taking away his power,” said Lynam, 70, a semi-retired dressmaker who was just finishing off her grocery shopping. “He’s got personality, he charms people when he wants to. I think he’s very intelligent. He just comes at a very difficult time for the country.”

See - poor Boris is the victim. If only those pesky blighters in the HoC and the EU would give him more time to sort this out ... :rolleyes:

farmchoice

boggerman1 wrote: »

Ray bassat on Sean O'Rourke show spouting nonsense about how we should leave the EU to help Britain.and he's still drawing a state pension.a joke

i think he was an ambassador that felt he got shafted for a promotion or move or something like that.

CrabRevolution

Quite a flip from when Theresa May was in charge. At that time we were told the PM's own approval of the withdrawal agreement was irrelevant, and that it was up to parliament as a whole to decide.

Now that parliament is in the way of a no-deal brexit, it's "bullying" and parliament should be sidelined and the PM be allowed to rule as they see fit.

Igotadose

Water John wrote: »

That's some burn from Gillard.

Indeed. "We'll talk about it" is her summary, along with the fact that the UK isn't at the top table as far as trade with Oz is concerned. And this is someone invited to the Conservative Party Conference, so she's a friendly, one assumes.

El Weirdo

Igotadose wrote: »

Indeed. "We'll talk about it" is her summary, along with the fact that the UK isn't at the top table as far as trade with Oz is concerned. And this is someone invited to the Conservative Party Conference, so she's a friendly, one assumes.

Wasn't she leader of the Australian Labor Party?

Water John

Born in Wales, left for Australia when she was five.
Her message was you're behind China, US and the EU.

Kalyke

As a"Former" PM , what say does she have?

Water John

Former Heads of State or PMs usually can give a straighter answer than would be diplomatic for a current Govn't leader.

Igotadose

Kalyke wrote: »

As a"Former" PM , what say does she have?

She might be a member of their Parliament. She has no say unless she's involved in negotiations. She's just conveying the state of things in Oz, and they're not particularly favorable to the UK. Remember, again, this was the Tory conference and here's a (presumably) invited attendee saying "Sorry, but Oz will get to you in turn eventually."

AlmightyCushion

Kalyke wrote: »

As a"Former" PM , what say does she have?

She covers this. She said it's for others to decide but in her experience the UK is behind other trading partners when it comes to trade negotiations.

Kalyke

Kalyke wrote: »

As a"Former" PM , what say does she have?

She has insight to know what Australian priorities are and what they will do.

Tacitus Kilgore

Kalyke wrote: »

As a"Former" PM , what say does she have?

Deleted User wrote: »

She has insight to know what Australian priorities are and what they will do.

I would say she is stating the rather obvious to anyone outside of the Brexiteer bubble in the UK.

Those inside won't listen anyway

maebee

Water John wrote: »

That's some burn from Gillard.

It sure was. You could nearly hear her telling Burley "You're leaving a market of 500 million+, on your doorstep and now you're looking to deal with a country 12,000 miles away and we're not interested".

Itssoeasy

So that proposal by the British government which when put onto a map of the island of Ireland looked like the DMZ on the Korean Peninsula wasn’t a serious one then ?

Water John

It was one of three non papers put forward.

VinLieger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So that proposal by the British government which when put onto a map of the island of Ireland looked like the DMZ on the Korean Peninsula wasn’t a serious one then ?

Like the majority of guff we've heard from tory governments in the last 3 years the intended audience was their brexiteer fanbase and they don't really care what anyone else thinks of it.

Seth Brundle

Another scandal for the PM?
PM donates £100,000 to help Bristol Port get Brexit ready (despite having claimed to be ready).
Coincidentally (and obvously in an unrelated move) the port's owners donated £25k to Johnson's leadership campaign.
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1179006287155257345

prunudo

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Another scandal for the PM?
PM donates £100,000 to help Bristol Port get Brexit ready (despite having claimed to be ready).
Coincidentally (and obvously in an unrelated move) the port's owners donated £25k to Johnson's leadership campaign.
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1179006287155257345

Similar to Trump, it appears no matter how much mud is thrown at him, none of it sticks.

BBC lunchtime news having a pop at Coveney, implying that no matter what ideas the amazing Johnson government bring to the table, they are always shot down.

CelticRambler

prunudo wrote: »

BBC lunchtime news having a pop at Coveney, implying that no matter what ideas the amazing Johnson government bring to the table, they are always shot down.

Kate McCann on Sky (about 13:10) was making a simiilar point in a different way: that last night's leak is exactly why the Johnson-Cummings administration is desperate not to put anything in writing - because as soon as something is written down, the EU rubbishes it.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that (a) most of what they've so far proposed in written form is, in fact, rubbish; and (b) the EU don't seem to suffer the same fate, when they publish their proposals, plans, guidelines and contingency measures.

Gael23

What protections exist for the Good Friday agreement in all of this?

Strazdas

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So that proposal by the British government which when put onto a map of the island of Ireland looked like the DMZ on the Korean Peninsula wasn’t a serious one then ?

Tony Connelly says this was their main proposal to the EU ten days ago and they asked the Commission many questions about it. It's not as if he was leaked the wrong document or something.

Seth Brundle

Gael23 wrote: »

What protections exist for the Good Friday agreement in all of this?

None. The UK government appear not to care about it as getting Brexit done appears to be a much bigger priority than some fighting Irish.

prunudo

I would hate for Tony Connolly's good work and access to reliable sources to be used as some sort of propaganda by the British government.

CelticRambler

Andrew Rosindell being given a hard time by Kay Burley on Sky (14:15) - says of the border paradox that "all these obstacles will evaporate" when Britain leaves the EU on the 31st October.

:eek: He's been reading one of those "power of positive thinking" books, hasn't he?

KildareP

Water John wrote: »

Former Heads of State or PMs usually can give a straighter answer than would be diplomatic for a current Govn't leader.

Indeed and I suspect much of their planning today stems from Australia's early-on analysis they undertook of Brexit:
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Foreign_Affairs_Defence_and_Trade/tradewithUK/Interim_Report/section?id=committees%2freportjnt%2f024101%2f25068


Section 4.60 on is where the uncomfortable reading really starts.


The Australian's value a FTA with the EU far more than a FTA with the UK, to the point they're not prepared to sign anything with the UK that might in any way possibly jeopardise an EU FTA, now or at any point in the future.