Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

54and56

Guy being Guy (sorry, don't know how to embed Tweets :-( )

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179454449443581953

gooch2k9

J Mysterio wrote: »

Its no wonder Arlene and the DuP are happy now.



Foster thinks that being in a UK Customs Union maintains their Britishness, especially so with a great big stonking border put in to separate Northern Ireland out from Ireland. This makes up for the Sea Border ("EU Single Market") aspect, while also allowing *some* trade continue. And, at any rate, they intend to quit the arrangement after 4 years anyway, and 'rejoin' UK proper with a nice premade border ready to go.

Seems genius from their perspective. This is real cake and eat it stuff. UK is basically saying, we are going to have Brexit and that means putting up a hard border on Ireland again. They are dressing this up as democratic by vesting the 'veto' in DUP hands. The short time frame is a risk for them, but a calculated one.

The arrangement would also allow UK gov to stop having to think about NI, which it doesn't give a toss about. Consider the half arsed, half baked plans for generators on the sea.

I thought Johnson's speech at DUP HQ was hilarious. At one point he literally said 'looking at your seething f'... He was going to say 'seething faces' but corrected himself to 'seething sea of faces'.

I saw somewhere there was a vote at end of transition and then every four years. If that is the case it meets Arlene's objectives of the entire UK leaving as one.

It basically means they only have to wait until they gain enough seats to PoC the vote and they're out. Assuming the SoS for NI calls an election in NI during the transition period that could happen before end 2021.

Hurrache

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Its a veto for any group of MLAs who can get 30 to sign a petition of concern, which has been abused frequently by the DUP over the last decade.

gooch2k9 wrote: »

I saw somewhere there was a vote at end of transition and then every four years.

Yeah, I posted a link to the clause in the UK paper a few posts back.

54and56

Great summary (and workaround for posting the actual tweet!)

liamtech

Loved the last part of Guy Verhofstadt's statement - wish i could find an unedited version

'Do you think this is a serious effort... or is this just trying to put the blame on you?'

Guy.. Cutesy and inner calm and Personified for that moment -

'I think that last part is very interesting'

Searching for unedited version - cant seem to rewind
‏

A Shropshire Lad

So..... we have gone from 'no border under any circumstances' to two borders. Thats the UK proposal ?

cml387

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

So..... we have gone from 'no border under any circumstances' to two borders. Thats the UK proposal ?

HMG are desperate to avoid that conclusion, so that's how it should be spun.

boggerman1

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

So..... we have gone from 'no border under any circumstances' to two borders. Thats the UK proposal ?

Yes.with full of unicorns and sunny uplands threw in

Akrasia

Jeremy Corbyn up to his usual shenanigans. He opposes this deal because it ties the UK to the EU's 'deregulation' and 'race to the bottom'

So at a time when he's pretending to be neutral on the question of the EU, his statement about why Johnson's pretend deal is unacceptale, is that it keeps the UK tied to the EU.

Corbyn wrote:

"But also much worse, is the specific intention to deregulate alongside Europe.

"Whereas, in fact, when we were negotiating with Theresa May's government they did agree to some degree of regulation and our talks broke down because they were not strong enough on environmental regulation.

"But this prime minister seems to want to have a deregulated Britain with a race to the bottom."
https://news.sky.com/story/live-boris-johnson-to-address-tory-conference-and-reveal-brexit-offer-11825127

This is the same message he spread while pretending to campaign against leaving the EU.

maebee

Someone should compile a list of BoJo's blatant lies. It would be a very very long list. Here's one for starters:


“I didn’t say anything about Turkey in the referendum.”

Boris Johnson denies making claims about Turkey entering the EU during the Vote Leave campaign - even though Channel 4 News’
@FactCheck
has found evidence to the contrary.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1086278152534413312

A Dub in Glasgo

Johnson is just like Trump, his supporters will not give two fecks for facts, integrity or professionalism

First Up

FrancieBrady wrote:

I suspect they are playing the game. If the EU out and out reject this with unseemly haste, Boris gets to point the blame finger and buy himself some more of those all important Brexit votes.

Pointing fingers of blame might be part of the UK's internal debate but nobody on the EU side is interested.

This might be about politics to the UK but to the EU it is only about legality and operability.

Two different languages; thw EU is well used to both; the UK seems to only grasp one.

Water John

So now it is presumed by asking the DUP its opinion, you're then consulting the people of NI.
This is a joke of a proposal, not one but two fecking borders and giving the DUP a veto. Goodbye GFA.

Robert McGrath

First Up wrote: »

Pointing fingers of blame might be part of the UK's internal debate but nobody on the EU side is interested.

This might be about politics to the UK but to the EU it is only about legality and operability.

Two different languages; thw EU is well used to both; the UK seems to only grasp one.

This is a very important point. I was just listening to Brexitcast and it struck me that Katya is different to the other hosts. It’s clear she’s not afraid to actually get into the detail of what’s going on while the other three (esp Laura K) are more interested in “mood music” and relationships. You’ve explained the difference between them beautifully above - any of the journalists worth listening to on Brexit talk about the actual rules and their operation. Any of the journalists that can easily be dismissed refer to generalities like “the EU always cave at the last minute”.

J Mysterio

Just after spotting this article.

It's really bizarre to be honest. Seems Johnson and Truss were interested in joining the CTA between NZ and AUS. So... Freedom of movement between UK and those countries?...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/uk-looking-at-freedom-of-movement-as-part-of-future-trade-talks-with-australia-951517.html

First Up

Robert McGrath wrote:

This is a very important point. I was just listening to Brexitcast and it struck me that Katya is different to the other hosts. It’s clear she’s not afraid to actually get into the detail of what’s going on while the other three (esp Laura K) are more interested in “mood music†and relationships. You’ve explained the difference between them beautifully above - any of the journalists worth listening to on Brexit talk about the actual rules and their operation. Any of the journalists that can easily be dismissed refer to generalities like “the EU always cave at the last minuteâ€.

Yes, most in the UK (and many posters here) see everything Brexit through the prism of UK politics. Its a fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on.

road_high

J Mysterio wrote: »

Just after spotting this article.

It's really bizarre to be honest. Seems Johnson and Truss were interested in joining the CTA between NZ and AUS. So... Freedom of movement between UK and those countries?...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/uk-looking-at-freedom-of-movement-as-part-of-future-trade-talks-with-australia-951517.html

Yea I can see it now- the aussies with their deep love of Asians will welcome potentially millions that live in the UK as British citizens to their shores ! A likely story...

Hurrache

An interesting development, apparently UK officials have briefed that under their proposed plans that if Stormont isn't sitting by the end of the transition period a referendum would be required for the buy in. Foster insists No, it has to be from Stormont.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1179483414153576453

Tony with the scoop. Surprisingly positive.

lawred2

road_high wrote: »

Yea I can see it now- the aussies with their deep love of Asians will welcome potentially millions that live in the UK as British citizens to their shores ! A likely story...

Is there anything in that for Aus or NZ?

lawred2

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1179483414153576453

Tony with the scoop. Surprisingly positive.

It's not that positive. It's polite but highlights how this plan fails on most key objectives.

road_high

lawred2 wrote: »

Is there anything in that for Aus or NZ?

Downton Abbey on loop as well as more frequent Royal visits- it’s what the Commonwealth wants apparently!

lawred2

road_high wrote: »

Downton Abbey on loop as well as more frequent Royal visits- it’s what the Commonwealth wants apparently!

Sweet deal

Spanish Eyes

I'm fecking off to Spain for a few weeks over the proposed Brexit deadline. Be interesting to see what the Brits Abroad think about all this. Last time we were there most had voted FOR Brexit. We go to Estepona by the way, small UK contingent there because there are not too many fk of English breakfasts etc. OK I am a snob. But still, of those from UK that are there, many do not want to be in the EU either.

Honestly it is just bizarre.

You really could not make it up.

Kermit.de.frog

And while there are yet to be discussions on putting a time limit on such an arrangement, EU sources have suggested Dublin could be put under pressure to accept such a deal if it was clear that the Commons would accept it.

If this was in the Telegraph I would pay no heed.

It's in the Guardian tomorrow (again).

Water John

Did I hear the theme music of CSI by The Who, as the intro music for Johnson?
Seems very appropriate.

road_high

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm fecking off to Spain for a few weeks over the proposed Brexit deadline. Be interesting to see what the Brits Abroad think about all this. Last time we were there most had voted FOR Brexit. We go to Estepona by the way, small UK contingent there because there are not too many fk of English breakfasts etc. OK I am a snob. But still, of those from UK that are there, many do not want to be in the EU either.

Honestly it is just bizarre.

You really could not make it up.

Is there anything more tacky and uncouth than English in Spain? They’re like a cringe inducing cliche. I’d love to see them loose their healthcare and rights there. And I highly question their supposed benefit to Spain. These are mostly lower middle class English on fixed pension incomes.

Spanish Eyes

road_high wrote: »

Is there anything more tacky and uncouth than English in Spain? They’re like a cringe inducing cliche. I’d love to see them loose their healthcare and rights there. And I highly question their supposed benefit to Spain. These are mostly lower middle class English on fixed pension incomes.

Ah I suppose we can't generalise, but in some cases we can!

I think you are correct, forget about the labelling re class and such, but most of them are retired bowls playing, animal lovers with low incomes from their receding pensions alright. It is obvious.

That area around Estepona has a small enough contingent. So I'm happy enough, been going there for years so know the score.

Safe enough to go anywhere there are no English breakfasts!

Frank Bullitt

Water John wrote: »

Did I hear the theme music of CSI by The Who, as the intro music for Johnson?
Seems very appropriate.

The singer from The Who loves his Brexit as well.

Leroy42

The EU are just playing the game. Remember the Chequers plan and that was received? Almost instantly torn apart by Barnier and what did it achieve?

Did the UK go back and work on getting something closer to reality? No, people like Johnson simply dug their heels in.

There is no benefit, and only blame cost, to the EU shooting this down. No cost to simply say some polite words, and then get Johnson and his team into a room to go through in detail all the issues. What happens after 4 years? If NI vote to leave can they rejoin? Etc etc.

No problem with talking. The last time they talked in the tunnel the WA was the result.

And the elephant in the room, as highlighted by Liz Truss today, is that the UK are no where close to being ready for no deal.

The UK are not the only ones comfortable with the ticking clock.