Buy or Build

MaLiYa

Looking at getting a PC which I will use for work. Will be opening SolidWorks models and this is processor intensive. Also, I need a good graphics card but will probably go for a gaming card as the workstation cards are crzy expensive. Need a good card for a different program SolidWorks Composer which is more graphocs intensive. So basically, need the best of borh and probably 32GB of RAM. Looking at this on Amazon.

Wondering could I build an equivalent cheaper. Have never gone down the build route myself but I imagine it can’t be that difficult, just need to ensure parts are compatible. Or am I being naive?

Does anyone know can you you get away without paying VAT on Amazon if you give company number which I could do.

MaLiYa

Looks like the I9 K is the way to go for speed although it runs hot. What would be an equivalent AMD.

irbx

MaLiYa wrote: »

Looks like the I9 K is the way to go for speed although it runs hot. What would be an equivalent AMD.

I used to have a business and these used to zero rate the vat and let it to you to self declare to revenue.

https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/

K.O.Kiki

MaLiYa wrote: »

Looking at getting a PC which I will use for work. Will be opening SolidWorks models and this is processor intensive. Also, I need a good graphics card but will probably go for a gaming card as the workstation cards are crzy expensive. Need a good card for a different program SolidWorks Composer which is more graphocs intensive. So basically, need the best of borh and probably 32GB of RAM. Looking at this on Amazon.

Wondering could I build an equivalent cheaper. Have never gone down the build route myself but I imagine it can’t be that difficult, just need to ensure parts are compatible. Or am I being naive?

Does anyone know can you you get away without paying VAT on Amazon if you give company number which I could do.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/SOLIDWORKS-2019-Quadro-GPU-Performance-1342/
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/SOLIDWORKS-2018-GPU-Comparison-Monster-Sized-Model-1120/
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/SOLIDWORKS-2018-GPU-Comparison-What-Is-the-Meaning-of-This-1112/

Since this is a work machine, I would talk to Dell about a Precision 360 Tower with Quadro P2000 / Xeon E-2174G or Quadro P2000 / i7-8700K.
Haggle. Get Pro Support.
Buy extra RAM from Crucial or whoever once you need it.

MaLiYa

irbx wrote: »

I used to have a business and these used to zero rate the vat and let it to you cto self declare to revenue.

https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/

Great prices on this site. Bad reviews on Trust Pilot however.

MaLiYa

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/SOLIDWORKS-2019-Quadro-GPU-Performance-1342/
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/SOLIDWORKS-2018-GPU-Comparison-Monster-Sized-Model-1120/
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/SOLIDWORKS-2018-GPU-Comparison-What-Is-the-Meaning-of-This-1112/

Since this is a work machine, I would talk to Dell about a Precision 360 Tower with Quadro P2000 / Xeon E-2174G or Quadro P2000 / i7-8700K.
Haggle. Get Pro Support.
Buy extra RAM from Crucial or whoever once you need it.

Unfortunately, we havent uograded to SW 2019 yet. Very interesting articles. 2nd article recommends a P2000. Interesting. So better off to spend on as fast a CPU as you can afford?

K.O.Kiki

MaLiYa wrote: »

Unfortunately, we havent uograded to SW 2019 yet. Very interesting articles. 2nd article recommends a P2000. Interesting. So better off to spend on as fast a CPU as you can afford?

Yeah looking at it again, CPU speed is king, and Quadro P2000 is the sweet spot.

Since the Xeon & i7 are both Coffee Lake & have same max turbo (4.7GHz) you might as well go for the cheaper Xeon - you should not OC a work machine.

That extra €171 can then be spent on an extra 2x8Gb + 1Tb SSD.

pprendeville

Why should a work machine not be over clocked?

Xenoronin

pprendeville wrote: »

Why should a work machine not be over clocked?

Stability > Raw performance. Overclocking, well, it's in the name, you go over the spec and have no guarantees that the CPU won't randomly cause a blue screen. You can say "but I stability tested it!" but the reality is that it doesn't go over every instruction and permutation of instruction the CPU is capable of. It just blasts it with difficult math until it gets hot, which might make the CPU do something wrong and fall over.

Now when you are working and are in the middle of 3D modelling a large project, you don't want the PC to randomly crash. Time = money, so the time spent starting the PC, recovering the model (or failing to if it got corrupted) can add up to a lot more than the money saved by having the project render a few seconds quicker.

This is also why we generally recommend businesses to NEVER BUILD THEIR OWN PCs. It might seem like a financially sensible idea, until something goes wrong, and "Bill the guy who knows PCs" is doing google searches to diagnose the issue and buy a new part which may or may not work, and takes time to deliver. Being able to get business support and a warranty are essential for businesses when it comes to IT.

smacl

I went for self build recently for a workstation for 3d modelling as well as development work, details here. Most of the parts were bought on Amazon Prime and VAT was not charged as I supplied my VAT number.

K.O.Kiki

smacl wrote: »

I went for self build recently for a workstation for 3d modelling as well as development work, details here. Most of the parts were bought on Amazon Prime and VAT was not charged as I supplied my VAT number.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/XsrZx6

You're not making a big saving & you lose pro support.
Better off with Dell Business IMHO

smacl

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/XsrZx6

You're not making a big saving & you lose pro support.
Better off with Dell Business IMHO

Yep, though Dells prices on a 32gb workstation aren't particularly great for what you get and I don't much fancy their standard offerings. For modelling, file sizes get big quite quickly so I'd look at minimum 1TB NVMe or SSD plus at least 4TB of hdd. I'm also not a big fan of small form factor Optiplex (have a bunch of these) from a thermal or upgrade perspective. Nice to be able throw in extra drives and RAM as needed, but often not an option with these configurations.

The pre-built amazon linked by the OP seemed decent enough value, though obviously lacking the Dell support.

K.O.Kiki

smacl wrote: »

Yep, though Dells prices on a 32gb workstation aren't particularly great for what you get and I don't much fancy their standard offerings. For modelling, file sizes get big quite quickly so I'd look at minimum 1TB NVMe or SSD plus at least 4TB of hdd. I'm also not a big fan of small form factor Optiplex (have a bunch of these) from a thermal or upgrade perspective. Nice to be able throw in extra drives and RAM as needed, but often not an option with these configurations.

The pre-built amazon linked by the OP seemed decent enough value, though obviously lacking the Dell support.

Manual for the Dell.

The Precision 360 Tower is a 20.41L micro-ATX case.
4x RAM slots.
2x 2.5" + 1-2x 3.5" SATA in addition to 1x NVMe drives possible.

Can't comment on airflow but it's probably fine, especially with the 4c/8t Xeon.

smacl

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Manual for the Dell.

The Precision 360 Tower is a 20.41L micro-ATX case.
4x RAM slots.
2x 2.5" + 1-2x 3.5" SATA in addition to 1x NVMe drives possible.

Can't comment on airflow but it's probably fine, especially with the 4c/8t Xeon.

Not seeing any Precision 360s on Dell Ireland website, cheapest 32gb on the site is the Opiplex 7070 small form factor. I don't have this model but have a few earlier small form factor Optiplex PCs and they're all 1hdd + 1ssd. The Precisions were always good for upgrade and configurable at purchase, the Optiplex not so much.

Could be having a senior moment here but can you link a Dell Precision with 32gb RAM, because I'm not seeing one which seems a bit bizarre for a workstation.

K.O.Kiki

smacl wrote: »

Not seeing any Precision 360s on Dell Ireland website, cheapest 32gb on the site is the Opiplex 7070 small form factor. I don't have this model but have a few earlier small form factor Optiplex PCs and they're all 1hdd + 1ssd. The Precisions were always good for upgrade and configurable at purchase, the Optiplex not so much.

Precision 360 Tower

From my first reply in this thread. :rolleyes:
Stock config is 2x8Gb RAM.
RAM is user-servicable.
Buy it for cheap on the open market.

smacl

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Precision 360 Tower

From my first reply in this thread. :rolleyes:
Stock config is 2x8Gb RAM.
RAM is user-servicable.
Buy it for cheap on the open market.

That's a 3630 not a 360 and comes with 16gb RAM which is not customisable by Dell. Adding your own RAM ought to be covered by warranty but I've found the older Precisions (670 full tower) ran hot with extra RAM and needed a specific extra fan. Your linked version also comes with only a single 256gb NVMe as storage so the OP would also need to upgrade that. All very doable and not a bad option but still a bit of messing.

K.O.Kiki

I am ashamed hah

Yes Precision 3630 not 360.
Manual & all other information is correct though.

Cuddlesworth

smacl wrote: »

That's a 3630 not a 360 and comes with 16gb RAM which is not customisable by Dell. Adding your own RAM ought to be covered by warranty but I've found the older Precisions (670 full tower) ran hot with extra RAM and needed a specific extra fan. Your linked version also comes with only a single 256gb NVMe as storage so the OP would also need to upgrade that. All very doable and not a bad option but still a bit of messing.

Things have gotten a bit better over the last 15 years.

Your not buying the parts, your buying the support. And avoiding those rare occasions where your new build sit's through 2 months of RMA's while you try to figure out whats broken.

MaLiYa

Looking at this on mifcom.de

https://www.mifcom.de/workstation-core-i9-9900k-quadro-rtx-4000-ssd-id9615?configurator&code=bxu1iom3

Any thought.

smacl

MaLiYa wrote: »

Looking at this on mifcom.de

https://www.mifcom.de/workstation-core-i9-9900k-quadro-rtx-4000-ssd-id9615?configurator&code=bxu1iom3

Any thought.

Don't know anything about the supplier but if you're spending close on three grand, I'd get more storage that 512gb NVMe + 2TB hdd. As per other comments here, is your priority best performance for your budget or solid onsite customer backup?