Replacing motorcycle frame

on2wheels · 23-09-2019 2:33am #1

Hi all!

I've purchased a motorcycle some time ago, and stupidly did not check it fully (private sale).

There was a hairline crack in the frame that I should have noticed. After some riding, the frame, almost snapped (20% of the frame bar still holding) on either side.

The seller long left the country. Shame, but not much I could do but suck it up.

It costed an absolute mint for a new frame + fitting (over 3k), and only 2nd hand frame I found was from UK. All in all turned out to be 1.1k fitted by the garage.

I do need to re-register or change the frame/chassis number on the log book, as I plan on driving the motorcycle, and possibly selling it in the future.

The frame came from UK, with the Reg plate of the previous motorcycle, and the V5 book signed over to my name.

What is the process of proceeding with changing the chassis number? What do I need to do in this case?
I found the forms for the cars, however I cannot get a grip of how to go about this with the bike.
Do I pay VRT on the frame? Do I just register it as a "replacement part"? Do I need to do anything at all if I plan to sell, if I just hand the next owner the V5 and old reg?

Thanks in advance!

CJhaughey · 23-09-2019 8:44am

You can't VRT just a frame, however the frame is the bike, so once the engine, suspension etc is installed in the new frame you will have to VRT the new frame as an import.
You will be issued a new reg and logbook.
Trying to sell a bike with V5 etc will be a non runner as by then brexit may have taken full effect and the new buyer will have to pay VAT as well as VRT on an extra-EU vehicle. This can complicate the deal massively.

Max Headroom · 23-09-2019 8:49am

As CJ says..If the bike is now complete you just need to bring it to the NCT as if you just imported the whole bike with the paperwork from the new frame, not the original frame log book...

Del2005 · 23-09-2019 9:17am

Max Headroom wrote: »

As CJ says..If the bike is now complete you just need to bring it to the NCT as if you just imported the whole bike with the paperwork from the new frame, not the original frame log book...

The V5 for the new frame won't match the engine number so they can't import it as is. The OP will need to get the engine swap verified first, IIRC a franchised dealer for the brand can do it don't know who else for bikes.

D3V!L · 23-09-2019 9:26am

Whats the bike ?

galwaytt · 23-09-2019 10:24am

I think you can do a frame change on your Registration Cert, as a frame is available as a spare part, to buy.

Many, many years ago I bought a span new Honda frame and swapped everything over in a weekend.

I'd call & ask DoT in Shannon about how to advise of a new frame number.

CJhaughey · 23-09-2019 11:50am

galwaytt wrote: »

I think you can do a frame change on your Registration Cert, as a frame is available as a spare part, to buy.

Many, many years ago I bought a span new Honda frame and swapped everything over in a weekend.

I'd call & ask DoT in Shannon about how to advise of a new frame number.

I can understand that for a new never-before-registered frame from Honda with associated paperwork but as a previously registered VIN it may be more difficult.

Max Headroom · 23-09-2019 11:58am

Del2005 wrote: »

The V5 for the new frame won't match the engine number so they can't import it as is. The OP will need to get the engine swap verified first, IIRC a franchised dealer for the brand can do it don't know who else for bikes.

Do they check the engine number...??.....mine isnt visible without removing half the fairings...

Del2005 · 23-09-2019 12:13pm

Max Headroom wrote: »

Do they check the engine number...??.....mine isnt visible without removing half the fairings...

They are supposed to. It might not be an issue now when VRTing but if going to sell it will be an issue.

on2wheels · 24-09-2019 6:08am

From what I understand,

Plan of action should be VRT-ing the motorcycle as a UK import, then submitting an engine replacement?

Damn this is going to be a headache.

Plus the motorcycle will lose 2 years since the new frame is 2 years older.

Nightmare, but completely my fault I guess.

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

BTW, DoT, revenue, and local Motor tax offices, each said "it has nothing to do with us" and just redirected me to eachother.

Guess I'm stuck in a loop ðŸ˜…

D3V!L · 24-09-2019 6:31am

Again....... What bike is it ?

Is it even economical to replace the frame and import it ?

24-09-2019 6:34am

I'd just. Keep. The original frame and drive on.
Nor a hope in hell I'd be paying the man again.

on2wheels · 24-09-2019 7:06am

D3V!L wrote: »

Again....... What bike is it ?

Is it even economical to replace the frame and import it ?

It's a 2013 XJ6. Hasn't been broken in properly yet even. So the bike has value.

The previous owner must've had crash frame on it, that they removed, but forgot to put the engine bolts back in, which cause stress on the frame.

Sounds like a joke, but glad to be alive after driving it like that for a month up and down the motorway.

Won't ever be buying private without a garage inspection or only out of a garage anymore!!

galwaytt · 24-09-2019 8:56am

on2wheels wrote: »

BTW, DoT, revenue, and local Motor tax offices, each said "it has nothing to do with us" and just redirected me to eachother.

Guess I'm stuck in a loop ��

I'd write to Shannon, forget phone calls, and send in an RF111 form 'Change of Particulars' https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf

Where it says 'engine' cross it out and put in 'frame' (2 places) ....and see what happens.

[edit] out of sheer curiousity, did you price a new frame from Yamaha ? - that would certainly solve the problem with no changes needed [/edit]

galwaytt · 24-09-2019 8:59am

Max Headroom wrote: »

Do they check the engine number...??.....mine isn't visible without removing half the fairings...

Del2005 wrote: »

They are supposed to. It might not be an issue now when VRTing but if going to sell it will be an issue.

They haven't checked an engine on anything I've brought in in the last 10 years. For a start, most engine numbers are obscured/hidden. VIN is all they need.

BrownFinger wrote: »

I'd just. Keep. The original frame and drive on.
Nor a hope in hell I'd be paying the man again.

He can't - the frame has a crack in it, so he has to change it anyway.

D3V!L · 24-09-2019 9:08am

on2wheels wrote: »

It's a 2013 XJ6. Hasn't been broken in properly yet even. So the bike has value.

The previous owner must've had crash frame on it, that they removed, but forgot to put the engine bolts back in, which cause stress on the frame.

Sounds like a joke, but glad to be alive after driving it like that for a month up and down the motorway.

Won't ever be buying private without a garage inspection or only out of a garage anymore!!

How much did you pay for it ?

I calculated the VRT as €285 if you're to import it again. So you're talking about under €1500 to get it done and dusted.

galwaytt · 24-09-2019 11:37am

D3V!L wrote: »

How much did you pay for it ?

I calculated the VRT as €285 if you're to import it again. So you're talking about under €1500 to get it done and dusted.

Moneywise, €285 isn't a lot, but I'd be trying to avoid the older plate if nothing else.

If that fails, then yes, pay the €285.

on2wheels · 24-09-2019 12:57pm

Sorry, to clarify.

The old frame has been imported, and fitted already. Just need the paperwork sorted.

Called MotorTax, no clue. Sent me onto Revenue. Revenue had no clue either, sent me onto NCT. NCT got no clue, and told me to go to VRT. VRT has no clue, and said I should go to MotorTax.

This is a joke.

It made a lot more sense financially, as 2nd hand frame cost 500 euro, while brand new one, cost 2k. All that plus fitting.

Guess ill just need to get the bike up to the VRT somehow, and see what they say.

Cheers again lads.

D3V!L · 24-09-2019 1:03pm

on2wheels wrote: »

Sorry, to clarify.

The old frame has been imported, and fitted already. Just need the paperwork sorted.

Called MotorTax, no clue. Sent me onto Revenue. Revenue had no clue either, sent me onto NCT. NCT got no clue, and told me to go to VRT. VRT has no clue, and said I should go to MotorTax.

This is a joke.

It made a lot more sense financially, as 2nd hand frame cost 500 euro, while brand new one, cost 2k. All that plus fitting.

Guess ill just need to get the bike up to the VRT somehow, and see what they say.

Cheers again lads.

So your bike has an engine and and Irish reg plate ?

Do you plan on keeping the bike and getting your moneys worth ? If so I know what I'd do.

Also on a side note. I've seen VIN's being punched on new frames before. Is this still legal ?

on2wheels · 24-09-2019 1:11pm

As of right now, yeah its on Irish Reg, with an Irish Engine, in an English frame hah.

Ill be abroad now for a very long time, so firstly was thinking of bringing it with me. After checking the laws of the country I'm going to, the import of it doesn't make financial sense.

So thought id keep it in Ireland to either drive if I ever come back, or to sell. I'm leaning to selling her though.

I know what I would do too - but I don't want any trouble is all.

D3V!L · 24-09-2019 1:25pm

Ooh just thought of something. Do you have the old frame ? Could you not cut the VIN section off the old one and transplant it to the new one ? Someone may come along and clarify this but as far as I know you only need the VIN stamp and a certain amount of the original frame to class it as the same bike.

H_Lime · 24-09-2019 1:35pm

D3V!L wrote: »

Ooh just thought of something. Do you have the old frame ? Could you not cut the VIN section off the old one and transplant it to the new one ? Someone may come along and clarify this but as far as I know you only need the VIN stamp and a certain amount of the original frame to class it as the same bike.

If you mean the seperate vin plate usually riveted on.....when i was registering an import on Saturday yer man in the vrt office was only interested in the other side of the headstock where it was physically stamped into it. Maybe he was in a hurry i dont know...?
Id imagine doing this would be effectively be ringing a bike no?
Tbh i haven't a bog on this but would have thought a change of particulars from (rf100???) would have been the way?

on2wheels · 24-09-2019 2:07pm

D3V!L wrote: »

Ooh just thought of something. Do you have the old frame ? Could you not cut the VIN section off the old one and transplant it to the new one ? Someone may come along and clarify this but as far as I know you only need the VIN stamp and a certain amount of the original frame to class it as the same bike.

Transplanting it, would mean cutting into the new frame, which is aluminium, right at headstock. Id rather not. Better not ride at all than have it crack on me hitting a bump on the m50

Re-stamping wouldn't be an option either. Not sure if thats even legal to be honest.

Just a shame of how much was/needs to be put into a bike, due to overlooking a tiny error in detail during purchase.

D3V!L · 24-09-2019 2:08pm

on2wheels wrote: »

Transplanting it, would mean cutting into the new frame, which is aluminium, right at headstock. Id rather not. Better not ride at all than have it crack on me hitting a bump on the m50

Re-stamping wouldn't be an option either. Not sure if thats even legal to be honest.

Just a shame of how much was/needs to be put into a bike, due to overlooking a tiny error in detail during purchase.

Sorry didn't realize it had an aluminium frame. Guess thats a no go then.

gctest50 · 24-09-2019 2:18pm

Steel frame surely

Anyway, what you have is worthless at the moment unless you break it up for spares

Get stopped at a checkpoint and it may be taken

And you have the whole false tax disc thing too

D3V!L · 24-09-2019 2:20pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Steel frame surely

Anyway, what you have is worthless at the moment unless you break it up for spares

Get stopped at a checkpoint and it may be taken

And you have the whole false tax disc thing too

Yeah, just checked and it does look like its steel.

on2wheels · 24-09-2019 2:49pm

Essentially, yes. Looks like it.

Unless I A)replace it with a new frame from a manufacturer, or B)break it for parts as you''ve said.

Which will wont be easy being out of the country, or cost me around 2.7k

Anyone know of any breakers who might be interested in a bike like this?

TheBoyConor · 24-09-2019 2:55pm

Could you just get someone to take the plate off of the old frame and attach it onto the new one? Or could you get the number changed on the new frame to match the old one?

TheBoyConor · 24-09-2019 2:57pm

Could you just have the crack welded up nice and neat and pare down the weld bead and dolly it all up nicely and then stick it up on donedeal and let some other n00b worry about it all?

CJhaughey · 24-09-2019 4:01pm

Take the Irish plate off the bike, and get a UK plate made with the correct reg# 63 XXXXXX whatever it is on the V5 from the UK.
Make appointment with the VRT crowd, and pay the VRT whatever it is. Then tax it and the logbook will be issued to you.
Don't forget to have a receipt - Handwritten will do for the date of import.

H_Lime · 24-09-2019 4:47pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Take the Irish plate off the bike, and get a UK plate made with the correct reg# 63 XXXXXX whatever it is on the V5 from the UK.
Make appointment with the VRT crowd, and pay the VRT whatever it is. Then tax it and the logbook will be issued to you.
Don't forget to have a receipt - Handwritten will do for the date of import.

Again, I'm way out of debth here but if that bike was on an Irish reg there should be a record of the chassis number against it. If you try to register it as an import with the same chassis number theres a chance this could come to light and some iffy questions to answer then.

Replacing motorcycle frame

Comments