Is the whole environment scare like a modern Armageddon

antiskeptic

vriesmays wrote: »

Do you know how much man-made carbon is in the atmosphere, less than 0.01%. How does this change our climate if it's so tiny.

It appears the total CO2 in the atmosphere is 0.04%. If so theb 0.01% is a huge addition .. 33% addition.

Like, imagine yourself 33% heavier. Or getting a 33% pay rise.

antiskeptic

wakka12 wrote: »

Why do you want to take the chance, though? to 'stick it' to the annoying lefties? Why not make some small sacrifices to make the world a cleaner, safer, happier place, and even if climate change turns out to not be the apocalypse its made out to be, well at least you still did something that helped to make a nicer world for us all to live in. And if it does turn out to be true, at least you can know you didnt contribute to the destruction.
So things that are indisputable and right in our faces:
At the very least, our oceans are soon to have more plastic in them than fish.
At the very least smog and emissions from fossil fuels choke our cities and contribute to 1.8 million early deaths from cancer and lung disease around the world
At the very least our cities are ever sprawling into the countryside and destroying habitats and eco systems
At the very least up to 200-2,000 species of animals are going extinct annually due to human impact
At the very least 27 soccer fields sized areas of forest are unsustainably flattened to make way for livestock farms every minute of every day
Then things that are just statistical predictions that we cannot visualise or perceive the implications on our personal lives in future..ocean rises etc. Given the above is it such a leap of faith to think these effects before our very eyes might also be permanently changing the climate of the planet?

At the very least our disgusting and unsustainable habits need to radically change . If it also stops climate change then all the better. If it doesnt, well it will still bring other benefits, short term and long term. And if climate change didnt live up to the fear-mongering , again we still will have made the world a cleaner and safer place for our future generations. Would that be such a bad thing?? I dont understand the animosity towards those concerned about climate change from so many posters.

The animosity possibly stems from the horror that our glugging on the worlds resources would have to end. It's like the music stopping in the middle of a great party. Who'd welcome that..

dvdman1

dont bother wrote: »

you are wrong about believing that. the world will do as it wants, as it has always done. the sun is hotter now. the world is NATURALLY heating

source: History of the planet

The world heating and cooling from shifts in orbit and natural trends is a totally seperate issue, thats not what this is about, and scientists arent denying this.
This is about the man made element.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate change have said the evidence "is clear and irrefutable — human activity is causing our planet to warm at an alarming rate"
Do you realise this is 100s of scientists from around the world some who have dedicated their entire lives to Climatology? Yet you know better. Go educate yourself instead of pursuing a hunch

lola85

dvdman1 wrote: »

The world heating and cooling from shifts in orbit and natural trends is a totally seperate issue, thats not what this is about, and scientists arent denying this.
This is about the man made element.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate change have said the evidence "is clear and irrefutable — human activity is causing our planet to warm at an alarming rate"
Do you realise this is 100s of scientists from around the world some who have dedicated their entire lives to Climatology? Yet you know better. Go educate yourself instead of pursuing a hunch

100s of scientists have also disagreed with it too.

Most don’t get airtime.

dvdman1

bladespin wrote: »

I’m not, while we have made our own contribution to climate change it’s ridiculous to say the climate never changed before mankind, history disagrees.

Lol, I’ve heard it all now, climate change denial is one thing but to deny the ice age???

Another confused person
Natural changes are not denied by myself or the scientists ..of course the earth was warmer and colder in the past..the earth is 4.5 BILLION yrs old..
This is not what the current climate change issue is even about, ignorance on this tread is unbelievable
Its about the current man made contribution

dvdman1

lola85 wrote: »

100s of scientists have also disagreed with it too.

Most don’t get airtime.

Yes approximately 3%,

lola85

dvdman1 wrote: »

Yes approximately 3%,

Are you gonna keep pushing this lie?

97% out of a sample of 1,000 scientists said climate change is happening.

That’s the fact end of.

Whether it’s man made wasn’t even brought into it.

Quantum Erasure

The number of papers rejecting AGW [Anthropogenic, or human-caused, Global Warming] is a miniscule proportion of the published research, with the percentage slightly decreasing over time. Among papers expressing a position on AGW, an overwhelming percentage (97.2% based on self-ratings, 97.1% based on abstract ratings) endorses the scientific consensus on AGW.

...

SafeSurfer

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

The number of papers rejecting AGW [Anthropogenic, or human-caused, Global Warming] is a miniscule proportion of the published research, with the percentage slightly decreasing over time. Among papers expressing a position on AGW, an overwhelming percentage (97.2% based on self-ratings, 97.1% based on abstract ratings) endorses the scientific consensus on AGW.

...

Oh, the old explicit endorsement without quantification trick.

9 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas too.

JohnMc1

statesaver wrote: »

Kinda looks like it is turning into a doomsday cult.

Turning into a doomsday cult? Its been a cult since the beginning. I'm 43 and I've been hearing about how we're going to die anyday now since I was child when they were going on and on about the holes in the ozone layer. Hell we're supposed to be 5 years underwater since climate change God himself said that Ireland would be completely under water by 2014.Now we're supposed to believe that we're all going to die in 12 years. When do people wake up and realize that this nothing more than worthless scaremongering? Why should we continue to believe their insane predictions when none of their predictions have actually come true.

I don't mind doing my part for the environment [my Sister and I used to save soda bottles and cans to recycle them for extra pocket money. 5 cents per can and 25 cents for the bottles iirc]Its the worthless fear mongering and the need to take very last penny out of my pocket to do it that turns me [and no doubt others ] off this.

Goldengirl

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Turning into a doomsday cult? Its been a cult since the beginning. I'm 43 and I've been hearing about how we're going to die anyday now since I was child when they were going on and on about the holes in the ozone layer. Hell we're supposed to be 5 years underwater since climate change God himself said that Ireland would be completely under water by 2014.Now we're supposed to believe that we're all going to die in 12 years. When do people wake up and realize that this nothing more than worthless scaremongering? Why should we continue to believe their insane predictions when none of their predictions have actually come true.

I don't mind doing my part for the environment [my Sister and I used to save soda bottles and cans to recycle them for extra pocket money. 5 cents per can and 25 cents for the bottles iirc]Its the worthless fear mongering and the need to take very last penny out of my pocket to do it that turns me [and no doubt others ] off this.

Think it was Nostradamus predicted that Ireland would be under water by 2014. Seeing as he made this prediction in the early middle ages I think he can be forgiven for being a few decades out, like a few minutes in the greater scheme of things!
Aerial pictures of Ireland flooded over the last 10 years all down the middle of the country would certainly make you a believer...unless you happen to be one of these King Canute, head in the sand , climate change denying types🙄

Tony EH

quokula wrote: »

The Ozone layer was a real issue and we took action and solved it.

It's hilarious that some people seem to think that that issue just sorta "went away".

Veritas Libertas

vriesmays wrote: »

None of the climate change freaks can explain how this tiny, tiny amount of gas affects our climate.

Not a freak/alarmist but... this is just wrong!

Of all the greenhouse gases they comprise only 2% of the total atmosphere, and of that 3.4% is because of human activity.
What really matters is that it was at 280ppm in pre industrial times, and now is shooting past 500ppm and increasing. The ocean captures 30% of the carbon we release, but there's also a limit to hold much it can hold.

Not only does carbon absorb IR radiation; water does too, and the amount of co2 in the air sets the amount of water in the air. The more carbon the more water(which is a much more influential greenhouse gas).

So while carbon dioxide contributes less to the overall greenhouse effect than water vapor, scientists have found that carbon dioxide is the gas that sets the temperature. Carbon dioxide controls the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere and thus the size of the greenhouse effect.

Source


It's no armageddon as like before cars people were complaining their roads would be full of $hit in no time at all(which would have been true), little did they know cars were around the corner to alleviate this ecological disaster. But people arguing that sure horses $hit all the time what's the big deal, were also mistaken.

Mehapoy

antiskeptic wrote: »

wakka12 wrote: »

Why do you want to take the chance, though? to 'stick it' to the annoying lefties? Why not make some small sacrifices to make the world a cleaner, safer, happier place, and even if climate change turns out to not be the apocalypse its made out to be, well at least you still did something that helped to make a nicer world for us all to live in. And if it does turn out to be true, at least you can know you didnt contribute to the destruction.
So things that are indisputable and right in our faces:
At the very least, our oceans are soon to have more plastic in them than fish.
At the very least smog and emissions from fossil fuels choke our cities and contribute to 1.8 million early deaths from cancer and lung disease around the world
At the very least our cities are ever sprawling into the countryside and destroying habitats and eco systems
At the very least up to 200-2,000 species of animals are going extinct annually due to human impact
At the very least 27 soccer fields sized areas of forest are unsustainably flattened to make way for livestock farms every minute of every day
Then things that are just statistical predictions that we cannot visualise or perceive the implications on our personal lives in future..ocean rises etc. Given the above is it such a leap of faith to think these effects before our very eyes might also be permanently changing the climate of the planet?

At the very least our disgusting and unsustainable habits need to radically change . If it also stops climate change then all the better. If it doesnt, well it will still bring other benefits, short term and long term. And if climate change didnt live up to the fear-mongering , again we still will have made the world a cleaner and safer place for our future generations. Would that be such a bad thing?? I dont understand the animosity towards those concerned about climate change from so many posters.

The animosity possibly stems from the horror that our glugging on the worlds resources would have to end. It's like the music stopping in the middle of a great party. Who'd welcome that..

I think the 'anti environmentalists' or the 'carry on as we are' crowd fall into 3 bands, those that have alot of money to lose from things changing, the more easily led no 'science geek is telling me what to do' and those that dont like to face up to problems and prefer to leave it to 'they' fix it for them.

Quantum Erasure

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Oh, the old explicit endorsement without quantification trick.

9 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas too.

the IPCC’s implied best guess was that humans were responsible for around 110% of observed warming (ranging from 72% to 146%), with natural factors in isolation leading to a slight cooling over the past 50 years.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-why-scientists-think-100-of-global-warming-is-due-to-humans


that was the first result when i googled it, might give you a few leads for your own research

dvdman1

lola85 wrote: »

Are you gonna keep pushing this lie?

97% out of a sample of 1,000 scientists said climate change is happening.

That’s the fact end of.

Whether it’s man made wasn’t even brought into it.

Wrong again...the consensus didnt just agree that a change was happening but specifically said the current changes are MAN MADE.

lola85

dvdman1 wrote: »

Wrong again...the consensus didnt just agree that a change was happening but specifically said the current changes are MAN MADE.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/joseph-bast-and-roy-spencer-the-myth-of-the-climate-change-97-1401145980

“The myth of the 97% climate change”

“What is the origin of the false belief—constantly repeated—that almost all scientists agree about global warming?”

Please read.

bladespin

dvdman1 wrote: »

Another confused person
Natural changes are not denied by myself or the scientists ..of course the earth was warmer and colder in the past..the earth is 4.5 BILLION yrs old..

Well you did, several times.

dvdman1 wrote: »

This is not what the current climate change issue is even about, ignorance on this tread is unbelievable
Its about the current man made contribution

Thanks for the apology, kinda, as stated I'm well aware of our contribution and that we have altered the natural heating of the planet, I only state that global warming/climate change is not a man made phenomena as you stated again and again.
The only ignorance on show was yours, this attitude that man created all the world's woes is the very reason why we're seeing the likes of Thrump rise in popularity, instead of wagging a finger and scolding from on high maybe make some contribution to a solution.

Boggles

lola85 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/joseph-bast-and-roy-spencer-the-myth-of-the-climate-change-97-1401145980

“The myth of the 97% climate change”

“What is the origin of the false belief—constantly repeated—that almost all scientists agree about global warming?”

Please read.

How can he, it's paywalled?

antiskeptic

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Oh, the old explicit endorsement without quantification trick.

9 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas too.

The quantification is 'the published research' a.k.a. 'all the cats we can find'

antiskeptic

bladespin wrote: »

Well you did, several times.




Thanks for the apology, kinda, as stated I'm well aware of our contribution and that we have altered the natural heating of the planet, I only state that global warming/climate change is not a man made phenomena as you stated again and again.
The only ignorance on show was yours, this attitude that man created all the world's woes is the very reason why we're seeing the likes of Thrump rise in popularity, instead of wagging a finger and scolding from on high maybe make some contribution to a solution.

So. Agreement on the fact that the planet cools and warms all on its own. And agreement that man's activity is warming the planet in addition to whatever might be happening outside of man's activity.

The question is whether you hold that man's activity has raised / is raising temps significantly (compared to what would have happened anyway). This appears to be the scientific consensus.

bladespin

antiskeptic wrote: »

The question is whether you hold that man's activity has raised / is raising temps significantly (compared to what would have happened anyway).

You haven't read my posts so :rolleyes:, I've already stated we've accelerated the effect, more than once actually.

dvdman1

lola85 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/joseph-bast-and-roy-spencer-the-myth-of-the-climate-change-97-1401145980

“The myth of the 97% climate change”

“What is the origin of the false belief—constantly repeated—that almost all scientists agree about global warming?”

Please read.

First off do you even understand what consensus even means?
The“consensus” is a general agreement of opinion, a statement of a possible explanation which can then be tested and retested until it is refuted (or disproved).
As scientists gather more observations, they will build off one explanation and add details to complete the picture. But the consensus is agreed based on current information.

The consensus 97%
J. Cook, et al, "Consensus on consensus: a synthesis of consensus estimates on human-caused global warming," Environmental Research Letters Vol. 11 No. 4, (13 April 2016); DOI:10.1088/1748-9326/11/4/048002

The wall street journal articles is based on political spin and false information
Bast and Spencer reference one totally debunked “Petition Project” with supposed signatures. It contains numerous false signatories and its organisers have admitted this.
The Wall Street journal is not a Scientific Journal these people are bought, cant believe your forming your opinion on such matherial, go read some science reports and scientific journals with real information.

realitykeeper

Snow Garden wrote: »

I don't think anyone believes Revelations anymore and if they do, they probably need therapy.

That is where you are wrong. I am the living proof.

Thelonious Monk

Today legislators in the Dail will debate a bill which will remove protections for precious boglands. I would have thought this was determent to our current state of climate emergency?

Actually it's the Seanad.

Snow Garden

realitykeeper wrote: »

That is where you are wrong. I am the living proof.

Ok living proof...you said:

I think one of the tribulations foretold in Revelations is flooding. So, rising seas could coincide with the apocalypse if these biblical events unfold over the next hundred years or so.

Now Revelations says a lot of nutty stuff but in relation to the sea/water...

Second Trumpet: Something that resembles a great mountain, burning with fire, falls from the sky and lands in the ocean. It kills a third of the sea creatures and destroys a third of the ships at sea. (8:8–9)

The Beast of the Sea blasphemes God's name (along with God's tabernacle and His kingdom and all who dwell in Heaven), wages war against the Saints, and overcomes them. (13:6–10)

Second Bowl: The Sea turns to blood and everything within it dies. (16:3)

Third Bowl: All fresh water turns to blood. (16:4–7)

So firstly do you believe this stuff? If you do, then I would advise therapy.

Secondly, where is the flooding you mentioned?

_Kaiser_

ANYWAY..

Yes, the recent obsession with Climate Change is something that is a direct result of an economy doing better IMO. Now that we all have money and stuff again, a section of the populace feel guilty about this and feel the need to "atone" for their "privilege" of not living in some backwards, poverty stricken hellhole.

Social media, as with so much else these days, amplifies this stuff until it's latched onto by formerly respectable news and media outlets (themselves staffed with many of these people) and suddenly it's a "crisis" we should all be kept awake at night thinking about and throwing references of our new-found awareness into every conversation (it's all over this forum for example!)

I was born in the 70s and so grew up in the Cold War, the "threat" of nuclear Armageddon, the ozone hole, the Gulf wars and so on and y'know what? It never affected my childhood and activities at all, and nor should it have. One way or another, these were issues that would be decided by Superpowers - not by a teenager in Ireland - and what was the point in upsetting and worrying myself about it at a time when school exams, or girls, were my priorities.

Trying to dump all this crap onto kids now (as increasingly happens in other areas of life too), with adults projecting their views on things onto children with no notion of the concept or agenda behind it is frankly, wrong!
Could we all do more to reduce our "Consumerist Lifestyle" and waste that it generates.. absolutely! Is it worth getting worried and upset over to the point of cult-ish behaviours... Not a chance!

Thankfully these fads die out once things like economic slowdowns hit the headlines (there wasn't much talk of this "crisis" during 2008-2015 was there?). If the worst aspects of social media went with it, it'd be win-win!

dvdman1

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

ANYWAY..

Yes, the recent obsession with Climate Change is something that is a direct result of an economy doing better IMO. Now that we all have money and stuff again, a section of the populace feel guilty about this and feel the need to "atone" for their "privilege" of not living in some backwards, poverty stricken hellhole.

Social media, as with so much else these days, amplifies this stuff until it's latched onto by formerly respectable news and media outlets (themselves staffed with many of these people) and suddenly it's a "crisis" we should all be kept awake at night thinking about and throwing references of our new-found awareness into every conversation (it's all over this forum for example!)

I was born in the 70s and so grew up in the Cold War, the "threat" of nuclear Armageddon, the ozone hole, the Gulf wars and so on and y'know what? It never affected my childhood and activities at all, and nor should it have. One way or another, these were issues that would be decided by Superpowers - not by a teenager in Ireland - and what was the point in upsetting and worrying myself about it at a time when school exams, or girls, were my priorities.

Trying to dump all this crap onto kids now (as increasingly happens in other areas of life too), with adults projecting their views on things onto children with no notion of the concept or agenda behind it is frankly, wrong!
Could we all do more to reduce our "Consumerist Lifestyle" and waste that it generates.. absolutely! Is it worth getting worried and upset over to the point of cult-ish behaviours... Not a chance!

Thankfully these fads die out once things like economic slowdowns hit the headlines (there wasn't much talk of this "crisis" during 2008-2015 was there?). If the worst aspects of social media went with it, it'd be win-win!

Its not an obsession or a fad as you describe it. i was born in the 70s too ..so what! are you another narrow minded ageist? Who cares when u were born many of the scientists who study this were born in 50s and 60s.....you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about social media ......
now seriously what exactly do you disagree with in the latest in IPCC report?

_Kaiser_

dvdman1 wrote: »

Its not an obsession or a fad as you describe it. i was born in the 70s too ..so what! are you another narrow minded ageist? Who cares when u were born many of the scientists who study this were born in 50s and 60s.....you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about social media ......
now seriously what exactly do you disagree with in the latest in IPCC report?

What I disagree with most to be honest is attitudes like yours.

This aggressive, adversarial "you're with us or against us" mentality that doesn't actually WANT to discuss... it just wants validation.

Seek it elsewhere. I've already given my opinion which, unlike your attitude, I'm not forcing you to agree with.

notobtuse

Armageddon – 0
Hysteria – 1
?
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2019/09/a-climate-modeller-spills-the-beans/