Garda V Pavee Point

lawrencesummers

Omackeral wrote: »

Martin Collins should've been clever and seen this as an opportunity. Why not counter-call out the Gardai and challenge one of theirs to a boxing match for charity? Maybe nominate and split monies between a "settled" charity and a traveller cause. That'd look great optics wise and could be seen as bridging communities.

Easier to moan and play the victim though.

The Gardaí and Travellers regularly have boxing matches, and money plays a role in it.

SEPT 23 1989

Drew was doing very well until this

Pandering to one of the biggest causes of crime against ordinary citizens in this state

Bad move

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Martin Collins should've been clever and seen this as an opportunity. Why not counter-call out the Gardai and challenge one of theirs to a boxing match for charity? Maybe nominate and split monies between a "settled" charity and a traveller cause. That'd look great optics wise and could be seen as bridging communities.

Easier to moan and play the victim though.

Yeah- and we could bring Jaffa Cakes and Bacon Fries along and have party

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't even think its a case of letting them have it, its just the whole negative narrative the whole time they play into. Rather than spotlight the good the community do or the rich culture they say they have you only really see them or the organization that represents them make the news when its either negative or crying foul for being called out on their bad behaviour.

I have yet to see any evidence of their rich culture.

The Furey Brothers? Yes, if they truly were travellers, but they were of the folk tradition, and nothing particularly ethnic traveller about their contribution to culture.

Not to delve too deeply in on the other side, but the folk tradition and traveller culture are very deeply intertwined.

For all the other guff, the travelling community have certainly had a huge impact historically on Irish folk music. To say that the Furey brothers were of the Folk tradition, as separate to their traveller heritage is simplifying how the two are connected. I suspect you'd have trouble finding many people deeply involved in folk music over the years who wouldn't credit a significant traveller influence with shaping it. If the encounters I've had with the travelling community through music were the only experiences I'd had, you'd find no bigger defender than me.

The main thrust of the thread though? Load of b*llocks. If you don't want your stupid callout videos getting parodied, don't make stupid callout videos. Naive of AGS and fire service members to not realise they'd be jumped on for it, but necks need wound in.

It's amazing how many people are on the side of the Garda in this thread! I must remember this for the future.... Any thread bashing Gardai I'll have to derail with tales of travellers.

If the guard made this video in a private capacity this would be different.
He is however, representing AGS in a charity boxing match. Which is where his problem arises.
He should have known better. He is held to higher standards when representing the force. Also, wearing part of the uniform? Stupid.
And he should have known better.
He won't lose his job, he may be disciplined. Every guard in the country would know what would happen in this case.

nkl12xtw5goz70

"Martin Collins, Co-Director of Traveller support group Pavee Point, told the Irish Mirror he is “appalled” at the videos.

He said: “I have to say that I’m absolutely appalled at the behaviour of these people, who I understand some to be staff of the fire brigade and others to be members of An Garda Siochana."

Has Collins ever pronounced himself "absolutely appalled at the behaviour" of the numerous Travellers who post the call-out videos being satirized here?

"Their behaviour only serves to reinforce the stereotype that Travellers are inherently violent."

I'm sure regular headlines such as "Feuding traveller gang plots acid attacks on enemies at court sitting" are doing far more to reinforce that impression.

Omackeral

Something I've noticed in those call out videos put out by Travellers is a mockery and downright disdain towards people with disabilities. Would love to hear Martin's take on that.

The Satanist

Omackeral wrote: »

Martin Collins should've been clever and seen this as an opportunity. Why not counter-call out the Gardai and challenge one of theirs to a boxing match for charity? Maybe nominate and split monies between a "settled" charity and a traveller cause. That'd look great optics wise and could be seen as bridging communities.

Easier to moan and play the victim though.

I think I may have spotted a problem with your suggestion.

Strumms

Omackeral wrote: »

Something I've noticed in those call out videos put out by Travellers is a mockery and downright disdain towards people with disabilities. Would love to hear Martin's take on that.

I’d would be put down to poor access to education and ‘opportunity’. Which is what all the individuals who want to stick up for and make excuses for their poor behavior.

mynamejeff

In traveller news today
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/commissioner-visted-pavee-point-to-apologise-for-hurt-and-insult-after-incident-on-social-media-953267.html

also in traveller news today

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/garda-hospitalised-with-facial-injuries-after-being-attacked-with-trowel-in-dundalk-38538806.html

Drew will hardly be visiting the injured man in hospital will he ?

lawrencesummers

mynamejeff wrote: »

In traveller news today
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/commissioner-visted-pavee-point-to-apologise-for-hurt-and-insult-after-incident-on-social-media-953267.html

also in traveller news today

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/garda-hospitalised-with-facial-injuries-after-being-attacked-with-trowel-in-dundalk-38538806.html


Drew will hardly be visiting the injured man in hospital will he ?

It’s pretty clear that Drew Harris is a publicist as opposed to a realist, his job isn’t to clean up the force and have it policing more efficiently as much as to clean up the image of the force and satisfy the task given to him so as not to cause embarrassment to the governemnt. It’s an extension of the problem in Ireland where policing is a political activity not a community satisfying activity.

donkeykong5

D

mynamejeff wrote: »

In traveller news today
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/commissioner-visted-pavee-point-to-apologise-for-hurt-and-insult-after-incident-on-social-media-953267.html

also in traveller news today

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/garda-hospitalised-with-facial-injuries-after-being-attacked-with-trowel-in-dundalk-38538806.html

Drew will hardly be visiting the injured man in hospital will he ?

Drew's priority should be the injured man in hospital. Not saying sorry to Pcbrigade snowflakes.

Sam Quentin

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/imitation-is-the-sincerest-form-of-flattery

end of the road

kildare lad wrote: »

I wonder is Martin Collins appalled with the videos I seen on WhatsApp of travellers filming themselves with guns , threatening each other in a graveyard of all places. Or the one I seen last week of a gang of travellers smashing up a camp site in front of children , or the video I seen just before that of another gang of travellers driving a van through the front of someone's houses then setting it on fire. Travellers only have themselves to blame for way society views them.

incorrect.
if innocent people within a group are viewed a certain way, because of the actions of some members of that group, that is not the fault of those people, but those who view them that way, rather then simply sticking to viewing the criminal element as they are.
so travelers as a whole, don't have themselves to blame for how some members of society view them. the criminal element on an individual basis have themselves to blame for how they are viewed on an individual basis, but for those who are not involved in illegal activity, it is those who view them as the same as the criminal element, who are to blame for viewing them that way.

screamer wrote: »

Give them a show of their own. It was one of the funniest videos I’ve seen. If pavee point are so concerned, they should be encouraging their own not to post videos like that online. They’re there for everyone to see, and I think the satirical one only shows them up for how stupid they are.
If either the Garda or the fireman lose their jobs for that, then this country is ****ed. Gardai do a lot worse in uniform and have for years and they just get retired on fat salaries. This was for charity and totally different.

whatever his reason for doing it, what other gardai have done and got away with, matter not here. he was representing the force, not in a private group on his own time.
if he does lose his job, he has only himself to blame, as the gardai are there to enforce the law, and not mock parts of the population.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Drew was doing very well until this

Pandering to one of the biggest causes of crime against ordinary citizens in this state

Bad move

most certainly not a bad move, but a good move that should be a warning to other members of the gardai to behave themselves and uphold he standards expected of them.

lawrencesummers

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect.
if innocent people within a group are viewed a certain way, because of the actions of some members of that group, that is not the fault of those people, but those who view them that way, rather then simply sticking to viewing the criminal element as they are.
so travelers as a whole, don't have themselves to blame for how some members of society view them. the criminal element on an individual basis have themselves to blame for how they are viewed on an individual basis, but for those who are not involved in illegal activity, it is those who view them as the same as the criminal element, who are to blame for viewing them that way.



whatever his reason for doing it, what other gardai have done and got away with, matter not here. he was representing the force, not in a private group on his own time.
if he does lose his job, he has only himself to blame, as the gardai are there to enforce the law, and not mock parts of the population.


most certainly not a bad move, but a good move that should be a warning to other members of the gardai to behave themselves and uphold he standards expected of them.

It’s easy to say that groups are not the definition of the individuals that make up that group. Sure there are good and bad Travellers, and there are good an bad ‘settled’ people (a term I don’t agree with as calling someone settled implies they were once travellers) but there are a number of big differences.

Many members of the travelling community views crime as a part of life, be it tax evasion, theft, drugs, extortion, illegal cigarettes etc etc, the majority of people who are travellers and not involved in crime don’t condone it, dont report it or try and do anything to stop it. Travelling families have wealth that are the proceeds of crime even though they are not the ones committing the actual crime they are happy to benefit from it.

The ‘settled’ community has it’s fair share of criminals, although nowhere near the ratio at which the traveling community has, and the wider community condones, confronts, reports and tackles it.

In a nutshell crime is far more accepted in the travelling community than in the ‘settled’ community.

Sure there are exceptions, and you will probably list some, but the attitude is what’s important, and the traveller attitude to crime is completely at odds with modern civilised society, as is the traveller attitude to education and health, the level of education is low and the attitude to health both mental and physical is appalling.

These are put down to culture, which to me is complete nonsense because the truth of it is that a lot of travellers are very wealthy people and have no interest in changing that.

end of the road

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s easy to say that groups are not the definition of the individuals that make up that group. Sure there are good and bad Travellers, and there are good an bad ‘settled’ people (a term I don’t agree with as calling someone settled implies they were once travellers) but there are a number of big differences.

Many members of the travelling community views crime as a part of life, be it tax evasion, theft, drugs, extortion, illegal cigarettes etc etc, the majority of people who are travellers and not involved in crime don’t condone it, dont report it or try and do anything to stop it. Travelling families have wealth that are the proceeds of crime even though they are not the ones committing the actual crime they are happy to benefit from it.

The ‘settled’ community has it’s fair share of criminals, although nowhere near the ratio at which the traveling community has, and the wider community condones, confronts, reports and tackles it.

In a nutshell crime is far more accepted in the travelling community than in the ‘settled’ community.

Sure there are exceptions, and you will probably list some, but the attitude is what’s important, and the traveller attitude to crime is completely at odds with modern civilised society, as is the traveller attitude to education and health, the level of education is low and the attitude to health both mental and physical is appalling.

These are put down to culture, which to me is complete nonsense because the truth of it is that a lot of travellers are very wealthy people and have no interest in changing that.

those are all separate issues to the issue of assuming things about people on the basis of them being part of a community which have problem elements. those issues do not justify anything other then simply dealing with those issues, issues which already have remedies available to deal with them but a refusal to actually pay for the resources needed on behalf of the politicians.
there is no excuse for viewing everyone of a group the same as those who actually do things which in turn do deserve condemnation. if someone wishes to view all of a group in such a manner however, that is ultimately their own fault.

Ruraldweller56

end of the road wrote: »

those are all separate issues to the issue of assuming things about people on the basis of them being part of a community which have problem elements. those issues do not justify anything other then simply dealing with those issues, issues which already have remedies available to deal with them but a refusal to actually pay for the resources needed on behalf of the politicians.
there is no excuse for viewing everyone of a group the same as those who actually do things which in turn do deserve condemnation. if someone wishes to view all of a group in such a manner however, that is ultimately their own fault.

@ end of the road

Graces7

end of the road wrote: »

those are all separate issues to the issue of assuming things about people on the basis of them being part of a community which have problem elements. those issues do not justify anything other then simply dealing with those issues, issues which already have remedies available to deal with them but a refusal to actually pay for the resources needed on behalf of the politicians.
there is no excuse for viewing everyone of a group the same as those who actually do things which in turn do deserve condemnation. if someone wishes to view all of a group in such a manner however, that is ultimately their own fault.

Thank you. As I have posted before I have had kindness and courtesy from many travellers in my years here. Taking each person as they are and act is always needful.

Ruraldweller56

Travellers make call out video and post it on YouTube. Libs be like
> Culture
> Heritage
> Part of the fabric of society
> Diversity
> Enrichment

Garda makes call out video and it goes around on WhatsApp. Libs be like
> OMG bigotry
> Literally Hitler
> Sack him at once
> Not nearly enough travellers in AGS
> Traveller awareness program as part of AGS training

splinter65

Omackeral wrote: »

Something I've noticed in those call out videos put out by Travellers is a mockery and downright disdain towards people with disabilities. Would love to hear Martin's take on that.

It’s quite complicated.
A child born with a disability is a result of you or your wife or one of your antecedents breaking one of the codes of conduct.
If you marry your cousin then you have to get a dispensation from the Catholic Church. This dispensation magically ensures that you won’t have any disabled children as a result of a genetic catastrophe from inbreeding.
So if you do have a disabled child it’s because either you your wife or someone back down the line did something very wrong at some stage, for instance shamed the family name in some way.
A Traveller woman told me that her sister has a Downs Syndrome little girl because she married a settled man.
Having a disabled child is a bit of a shameful thing.

lawrencesummers

end of the road wrote: »

those are all separate issues to the issue of assuming things about people on the basis of them being part of a community which have problem elements. those issues do not justify anything other then simply dealing with those issues, issues which already have remedies available to deal with them but a refusal to actually pay for the resources needed on behalf of the politicians.
there is no excuse for viewing everyone of a group the same as those who actually do things which in turn do deserve condemnation. if someone wishes to view all of a group in such a manner however, that is ultimately their own fault.

So it’s all the politicians fault? That clears it up so.

When travellers don’t finish school it’s the minister for education for not resourcing it?
When mental health issues has lead to massively increased numbers of suicide among travellers it’s another politicians fault?
When travellers refuse to attend hospital for issues that cause massive consequences it’s the minister for health right?

Of course none of the issue affecting travellers are their own doing. Sure. It’s the resources they don’t have.

davetherave

lawrencesummers wrote: »

A better question to ask is what they spend their money on, because the don’t publish any accounts online.

https://search.benefacts.ie/org/1cdfe364-c6f0-45cf-a3c6-725a83c65bfd/pavee-point-trust-company-limited-by-guarantee

Abridged financial statements here. 2017 is the latest available.

Pavee Point Trust Ltd:

Net Assets of 190K
42.5K in Cash and Bank Balance equivilant.

They also own a building that the DUBLIN TRAVELLERS EDUCATION AND DEVELOPMENT GROUP are the only tenant of, and who in lieu of rent DTEDG carry out maintance and repair of the building.

This outfit had an income of 1.75m in 2017 which they only brokedown as Unspecified Government, Unspecified Funding and Other.

lawrencesummers

davetherave wrote: »

https://search.benefacts.ie/org/1cdfe364-c6f0-45cf-a3c6-725a83c65bfd/pavee-point-trust-company-limited-by-guarantee

Abridged financial statements here. 2017 is the latest available.

Pavee Point Trust Ltd:

Net Assets of 190K
42.5K in Cash and Bank Balance equivilant.

They also own a building that the DUBLIN TRAVELLERS EDUCATION AND DEVELOPMENT GROUP are the only tenant of, and who in lieu of rent DTEDG carry out maintance and repair of the building.

This outfit had an income of 1.75m in 2017 which they only brokedown as Unspecified Government, Unspecified Funding and Other.

I was of the opinion that we live in Society where charities publish directors remuneration.

Pavee point (like others) dont, nor is the source(s) of their income clear.

mynamejeff

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Travellers make call out video and post it on YouTube. Libs be like
> Culture
> Heritage
> Part of the fabric of society
> Diversity
> Enrichment

Garda makes call out video and it goes around on WhatsApp. Libs be like
> OMG bigotry
> Literally Hitler
> Sack him at once
> Not nearly enough travellers in AGS
> Traveller awareness program as part of AGS training

im told that pavee point do give talks to gardai in training , unfortunately it comes after they have been out in the real world dealing with violent traveller criminals for some time so the reception is frosty at best :-)

Ruraldweller56

mynamejeff wrote: »

im told that pavee point do give talks to gardai in training , unfortunately it comes after they have been out in the real world dealing with violent traveller criminals for some time so the reception is frosty at best :-)

I'd well believe it.

Ruraldweller56

mynamejeff wrote: »

im told that pavee point do give talks to gardai in training , unfortunately it comes after they have been out in the real world dealing with violent traveller criminals for some time so the reception is frosty at best :-)

https://youtu.be/PQAFSVu941s

@ 6:35

sligojoek

mynamejeff wrote: »

im told that pavee point do give talks to gardai in training , unfortunately it comes after they have been out in the real world dealing with violent traveller criminals for some time so the reception is frosty at best :-)

That's nice of them.

punisher5112

Pavee point another absolute drain on society.

Orderofchaos

FFS. The lads at pavee point probably don't like "my big fat gypsy kardashians" either, no taste these lads. Check it out on YouTube. Lol.

padd b1975

Omackeral wrote: »

Something I've noticed in those call out videos put out by Travellers is a mockery and downright disdain towards people with disabilities. Would love to hear Martin's take on that.

Calling someone 'innocent' seems to be considered a massive insult as well.