The Strike is over. What happens now?

MIKEKC

ruwithme wrote: »

Off course he hasn't. more figures. god only knows where he gets them.(i doubt god wants to know either) well done blockaders.

Well done for creating a backlog of a reported 100.000 cattle. ABP Cahir not killing any over 30 month this week. Well done blockaders, what a wonderful outcome

memorystick

MIKEKC wrote: »

Well done for creating a backlog of a reported 100.000 cattle. ABP Cahir not killing any over 30 month this week. Well done blockaders, what a wonderful outcome

Are the factories not just acting the fûçk again?

Bass Reeves

MIKEKC wrote: »

Have you evidence of this?

ruwithme wrote: »

Off course he hasn't. more figures. god only knows where he gets them.(i doubt god wants to know either) well done blockaders.

Processors were by all the commentary intent on taking prices down to as near as 3/kg as they could. Even after the first strike ended they again tried to pull cattle to 3.4/kg. This is not me making up figures it what f@@king happened but there are some lads still in denial. They are blaming there own greed for suffering more than ordinary farmers now. Because ordinary farmers that were not getting the bit extra are all better off than if the strike did not happen.

But remember this when you go out looking for stores in 2-3 years time and there in none it because store and calf men cannot be expected to should all the losses. They are exiting the business slowly and are not being replaced. In 5-6 years time if you are getting up at 6-7 in the morning to feed you calves remember that. Present prices are below the cost of production and lads will walk away.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Processors were by all the commentary intent on taking prices down to as near as 3/kg as they could. Even after the first strike ended they again tried to pull cattle to 3.4/kg. This is not me making up figures it what f@@king happened but there are some lads still in denial. They are blaming there own greed for suffering more than ordinary farmers now. Because ordinary farmers that were not getting the bit extra are all better off than if the strike did not happen.

But remember this when you go out looking for stores in 2-3 years time and there in none it because store and calf men cannot be expected to should all the losses. They are exiting the business slowly and are not being replaced. In 5-6 years time if you are getting up at 6-7 in the morning to feed you calves remember that. Present prices are below the cost of production and lads will walk away.

There was never any hope of a price rise that would justify the damage they have done to the beef trade, the whinge now is that IFA didn't follow them.......... into the same black hole

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

There was never any hope of a price rise that would justify the damage they have done to the beef trade, the whinge now is that IFA didn't follow them.......... into the same black hole

Never before seen world protein meat shortage going to envelope the world in 2020 into 2021 and you still reckon the factories are under pressure and out of a compliment taking beef in of lads for slaughter that they will have trouble shifting and basically have to give away, will you ever wake up

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

There was never any hope of a price rise that would justify the damage they have done to the beef trade, the whinge now is that IFA didn't follow them.......... into the same black hole

The IFA did folllow them. You have Angus Woods not wanting to split into two beef committees one for finishers and one for suckler/store men. He sees that the IFA is has lost the support of a huge swathe of drystock farmers.

A few years ago the IFA could have depended on the support of 100K+ farmers.

Now has it the support 10K of the 18K dairy farmers, 2-3K finishers and a handfull of tillage, poultry and pig farmers. Maybe 20K in total. Woods see that if it wants to hold attention as a representive body it needs the mass of numbers behind it.

patsy_mccabe

Would anyone care to show evidence of the 'Damage' done by the protests? Whatever form that takes.

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Would anyone care to show evidence of the 'Damage' done by the protests? Whatever form that takes.

The boys lost there 20c/kg advantage over the rest of us

Siamsa Sessions

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The IFA did folllow them. You have Angus Woods not wanting to split into two beef committees one for finishers and one for suckler/store men. He sees that the IFA is has lost the support of a huge swathe of drystock farmers.

A few years ago the IFA could have depended on the support of 100K+ farmers.

Now has it the support 10K of the 18K dairy farmers, 2-3K finishers and a handfull of tillage, poultry and pig farmers. Maybe 20K in total. Woods see that if it wants to hold attention as a representive body it needs the mass of numbers behind it.

It was Tim Cullinan pushing the two new committees in Waterford on Monday night. One of the current livestock committee members was in the crowd and he was against the idea, citing the great work they were doing, how well they got on, etc.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The IFA did folllow them. You have Angus Woods not wanting to split into two beef committees one for finishers and one for suckler/store men. He sees that the IFA is has lost the support of a huge swathe of drystock farmers.

A few years ago the IFA could have depended on the support of 100K+ farmers.

Now has it the support 10K of the 18K dairy farmers, 2-3K finishers and a handfull of tillage, poultry and pig farmers. Maybe 20K in total. Woods see that if it wants to hold attention as a representive body it needs the mass of numbers behind it.

It's a long time since IFA could depend on help from more than 10 -20 % of farmers ....... you obviously never bothered helping to fill buses for protests in the last twenty years.
Farmers played a big part too in their own demise, Happy to stand back and let a few others do the work, you referred to muppets, incidentally that was a sad comment too referring to IFA as muppets

Muckit

MIKEKC wrote: »

Well done for creating a backlog of a reported 100.000 cattle. ABP Cahir not killing any over 30 month this week. Well done blockaders, what a wonderful outcome

I could be way off, but I'm getting a hint of sarcasm!

duffysfarm

you have to be taking the p**s

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Would anyone care to show evidence of the 'Damage' done by the protests? Whatever form that takes.

Dinzee Conlee

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Would anyone care to show evidence of the 'Damage' done by the protests? Whatever form that takes.

ha ha Patsy, the devil in me made me ask "Can you show us evidence of the good done by the protests?"

Base price

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Would anyone care to show evidence of the 'Damage' done by the protests? Whatever form that takes.

A fair few neighbours/friends have cattle that went overage during the blockades and since. The blockades created a severe backlog and most have cattle on hand today that are or going overage and cannot get them slaughtered. These farmers feed a few bullocks/heifers every year either from their suckler herds or cattle they bought in.

patsy_mccabe

Do people not forget why there was a protest in the first place?

MIKEKC

memorystick wrote: »

Are the factories not just acting the fûçk again?

Probably they have the power, now they are using it

MIKEKC

Base price wrote: »

A fair few neighbours/friends have cattle that went overage during the blockades and since. The blockades created a severe backlog and most have cattle on hand today that are or going overage and cannot get them slaughtered. These farmers feed a few bullocks/heifers every year either from their suckler herds or cattle they bought in.

30 overage left here, Cahir not taking any over 30 months this week. Almost 50 gone overage since strike. Severe loss here

MIKEKC

Muckit wrote: »

I could be way off, but I'm getting a hint of sarcasm!

Not far off I suppose

Anto_Meath

It was the wrong time of year to have a strike and it was gone about in the wrong way plus the weather since august hasn't helped. Factories can now do as they like as they like as they know farmers now need to get cattle killed so wouldn't dream of blocking the gates again for a while. There has to be some other way to put pressure on the Factories while at the same time not stopping the kill.

Base price

Anto_Meath wrote: »

It was the wrong time of year to have a strike and it was gone about in the wrong way plus the weather since august hasn't helped. Factories can now do as they like as they like as they know farmers now need to get cattle killed so wouldn't dream of blocking the gates again for a while. There has to be some other way to put pressure on the Factories while at the same time not stopping the kill.

IMO the only way of putting pressure on the factories is to reduce the kill numbers. Unfortunately that will not be achieved in the near future due to the fact that we are way overstocked.

Base price

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Do people not forget why there was a protest in the first place?

Yeah, from memory it was instigated by the Beef Plan Movement cause they couldn't get a seat at the Round Table talks and they wanted a membership of 40k farmers.

Buford T. Justice XIX

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Do people not forget why there was a protest in the first place?

In all fairness, Patsy, it was asked numerous times while the strike was going on about what would constitute a win for the protest.

There was no answer to that question by anyone.

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest the blockade was a win when no win scenario was offered by supporters.

Just as it's a bit ingenuous to suggest it was a failure as well, in all honesty. We simply don't know if the price would have stayed or dropped without the protest or just how far it would have dropped if no protest was held.

People will have their own opinions on it and I doubt any will change their position on it.

Anto_Meath

Base price wrote: »

IMO the only way of putting pressure on the factories is to reduce the kill numbers. Unfortunately that will not be achieved in the near future due to the fact that we are way overstocked.

You are correct Factories were controlling the kill with their feed lots so Farmers need to do similar, but farmers wouldn't work together to do that.
I firmly believe factories could pay 10% - 15% more for cattle at any time if they need the numbers. If farmers could block factories phone lines or WiFi instead it would probably cause them more disruption than the strikes did. Some outside thinking like that is what is really need but at the same time it has to be within the law. What is really need is concrete evidence to prove they are working in unison when it comes to setting price, there has to be a disgruntled ex employee somewhere to spill the beans.

wrangler

jaymla627 wrote: »

Never before seen world protein meat shortage going to envelope the world in 2020 into 2021 and you still reckon the factories are under pressure and out of a compliment taking beef in of lads for slaughter that they will have trouble shifting and basically have to give away, will you ever wake up

Factories aren't under pressure, They'll take what they want now and leave behid the rest.
But your first sentence supports my claim that there wasn't a hope of getting price rise.
I don't think I inferred that they have to give it a away anywhere, It's really none of our business what they do with it

Panch18

MIKEKC wrote: »

30 overage left here, Cahir not taking any over 30 months this week. Almost 50 gone overage since strike. Severe loss here

Best friend has 70 out of 170 left to kill, same as yourself couldn’t get them in and now all overage, cahir being the local factory as well

And can’t buy the replacement cattle back either

Severe losses there as well

Base price

Anto_Meath wrote: »

You are correct Factories were controlling the kill with their feed lots so Farmers need to do similar, but farmers wouldn't work together to do that.
I firmly believe factories could pay 10% - 15% more for cattle at any time if they need the numbers. If farmers could block factories phone lines or WiFi instead it would probably cause them more disruption than the strikes did. Some outside thinking like that is what is really need but at the same time it has to be within the law. What is really need is concrete evidence to prove they are working in unison when it comes to setting price, there has to be a disgruntled ex employee somewhere to spill the beans.

I saw what you tried to do there - you deliberately misquoted me..
Anyway like it or lump it by fair or foul means we have to reduce our national livestock numbers.

Anto_Meath

Base price wrote: »

I saw what you tried to do there - you deliberately misquoted me..
Anyway like it or lump it by fair or foul means we have to reduce our national livestock numbers.

Hi Base, I didn't deliberately misquote you and I don't know where you are getting that idea from. I said you were correct. Factories have controlled the kill and there is an over supply.
My think is farmers need to be clever and work out some way of getting the pendulum to swing back in their favor.

Base price

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Hi Base, I didn't deliberately misquote you and I don't know where you are getting that idea from. I said you were correct. Factories have controlled the kill and there is an over supply.
My think is farmers need to be clever and work out some way of getting the pendulum to swing back in their favor.

Apologies Anto_Meath.
As I posted, imo the only way to swing the pendulum back to our favour is when our national cattle numbers are reduced. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen in the near future with the influx of dairy/dairyX bulls calves especially if live shipping/slaughter is restricted/curtailed or prevented.

tanko

wrangler wrote: »

Factories aren't under pressure, They'll take what they want now and leave behid the rest.
But your first sentence supports my claim that there wasn't a hope of getting price rise.
I don't think I inferred that they have to give it a away anywhere, It's really none of our business what they do with it

The IFA mantra, "the factory is always right, the farmer is always wrong, blah blah blah".
And farmers giving €13,000,000 every year to the IFA trough dwellers, you couldn't make it up.

MF290

duffysfarm wrote: »

neighbour of my fathers works for goodman on his farm. was telling my father that they have room for 3,000 cattle but have 40 at the minute. why would larry bother feeding the cattle when the farmers will do that for him?
all the workers getting worried that they are for the chop any day now!

Is this not a good thing if it’s true, given that feedlots are used to manipulate prices?
Our beef prices are roughly in line with the rest of Europe. Factories would want to be offering an awful lot more to make beef worthwhile.

wrangler

tanko wrote: »

The IFA mantra, "the factory is always right, the farmer is always wrong, blah blah blah".
And farmers giving €13,000,000 every year to the IFA trough dwellers, you couldn't make it up.

Factory is always the customer, that makes them king.
Farmers are getting an education to that effect at the moment
Farmers are entitled to support any organisation,Though I doubt they're giving €13m to IFA.
If there's 50 0r 60000 farmers that want to support IFA they're entitled to some respect. Begrudgery is a joke

MIKEKC

MF290 wrote: »

Is this not a good thing if it’s true, given that feedlots are used to manipulate prices?
Our beef prices are roughly in line with the rest of Europe. Factories would want to be offering an awful lot more to make beef worthwhile.

Looks like prices will remain poor for the immediate future, so what would be the best feeding regime for the winter.? 480-500 kg FR bullocks to be finished next summer. Early June silage. Normally feed 2kg meal for winter. How about not feeding meal this year. Not too worried about 30 months , plenty grass later in summer.

MF290

Hopefully some good will come out of the protein shortage.
In china the price of beef has risen by 17% and 33% for chicken over the past year.

Base price

MIKEKC wrote: »

Looks like prices will remain poor for the immediate future, so what would be the best feeding regime for the winter.? 480-500 kg FR bullocks to be finished next summer. Early June silage. Normally feed 2kg meal for winter. How about not feeding meal this year. Not too worried about 30 months , plenty grass later in summer.

Have a bunch of Spring born 2018 FR bulls that we brought into the sheds about a month ago before the last storm. I'm going to do what I did last year during the drought and feed them cheap on a mix of oats/barley/a bit of maize meal with hay through the diet feeder. It worked out well enough for us as we sold most of the bulls in December to a lad for feeding. The 16 that didn't sell went to the factory in May and were overage. Got 3.25/kg flat so I was happy enough but I doubt I see a flat price in the near future.

K.G.

Base price wrote: »

Apologies Anto_Meath.
As I posted, imo the only way to swing the pendulum back to our favour is when our national cattle numbers are reduced. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen in the near future with the influx of dairy/dairyX bulls calves especially if live shipping/slaughter is restricted/curtailed or prevented.

In fairness base i generally agree with you but on this i differ.reducing numbers will do nothing while you have the industry eithout competition. Theres only 3 ways to increase prices
A rise in world prices
A new playerin the irish industry
Strong live export demand.
If beef plan was serious about increasing prices they would have organised live exports .instead they engaged in a pr stunt to benefit themselves politically which is a real pity

Mooooo

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Hi Base, I didn't deliberately misquote you and I don't know where you are getting that idea from. I said you were correct. Factories have controlled the kill and there is an over supply.
My think is farmers need to be clever and work out some way of getting the pendulum to swing back in their favor.

The way prices rise or fall is with and increase or decrease in supply or demand. There are too many supplying beef at loss or only getting the bps whatever scheme is going out of it. As long as that beef is supplied below the cost of production there is no reason for factories to increase price as it is always undermining the market

Base price

K.G. wrote: »

In fairness base i generally agree with you but on this i differ.reducing numbers will do nothing while you have the industry eithout competition. Theres only 3 ways to increase prices
A rise in world prices
A new playerin the irish industry
Strong live export demand.
If beef plan was serious about increasing prices they would have organised live exports .instead they engaged in a pr stunt to benefit themselves politically which is a real pity

1) There is a current rise in pig and poultry/duck prices due to African Swine fever in Asian countries. Unfortunately it hasn't transitioned to beef prices probably due to the type of small holdings where poultry/pigs are traditionally kept.
2) Unless a beef eating gobbling alien space ship lands somewhere in Ireland than it ain't going to happen.
3) Same as point 2

Base price

As an aside, someone commented earlier on this thread about flying calves out of Ireland and the comment was ridiculed

I remember when dairy bull calves were flown from Dublin and it wasn't that long ago.

Ard_MC

Base price wrote: »

As an aside, someone commented earlier on this thread about flying calves out of Ireland and the comment was ridiculed

I remember when dairy bull calves were flown from Dublin and it wasn't that long ago.

Think we were flyin lambs to singapore not so long ago till a bit of a disaster on a load. Haven't heard of it happenin since.

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

As an aside, someone commented earlier on this thread about flying calves out of Ireland and the comment was ridiculed

I remember when dairy bull calves were flown from Dublin and it wasn't that long ago.

And it was a ridiculous suggestion. it just shows the cocoon that some of these lads live in. Any calves flown out of the country were breeding stock. It would be commercially impossible to fly low value stock like Fr bull calves out of the country in any significant numbers. It would not be worth the effort. At a minimum I would expect it would cost well into the three figures.

The stock that were flown out were sent significant distances as well I believe it was done years back to the Middle east with Fr heifers, after that I think it may have been done with AA heifers going to a Russian country. But these would be the type of examples.

Unless the Yanks want them for training in disposal of ISIS leaders I cannot see any way Fr bull calves will be flying unless they develop wings.

amacca

Anto_Meath wrote: »

It was the wrong time of year to have a strike and it was gone about in the wrong way plus the weather since august hasn't helped. Factories can now do as they like as they like as they know farmers now need to get cattle killed so wouldn't dream of blocking the gates again for a while. There has to be some other way to put pressure on the Factories while at the same time not stopping the kill.

Maybe there is............. put pressure on the support network/the little ecosystem they have going for themselves where everything seems to work in their favour

competition authority

politicians etc

air their dirty laundry for them.....use protests to publicise the right message, the kind that would worry them, market the message as merely addressing an injustice, rebalancing an unfair system and keep hammering it home

the offal processing situation

feedlots distorting market etc

Broadcast the message that this is big business strangling country families just trying to get by rear their kids, Maybe challenge the lack of transparency despite processors being private companies, they control an industry and have brought it to its knees, in the national interest there should be transparency so everyone can see they are not taking an unfair cut...the lack of transparency makes it easier for them to take the mick imo

perhaps a sustained campaign of disruption like that might have an effect?


whats good for the goose is good for the gander.....pick away at all the legs on their stool until you can hit them where it hurts when they need the raw material and there isn't an almost guaranteed flow of it coming in to them....

theres always a way to win imo, its just a case of what are you or the group willing to sacrifice to do so and can you get creative.


or do nothing...it might solve itself over the medium term anyway...perhaps I'm naive but I can't seen anyone continuing to take on the kind of losses dry stock tustve sustained in most places this year for the foreseeable, an increasing percentage of people simply won't be willing to carry the same numbers and the slave labour it entails just to lose money..and id imagine a significant amount will exit altogether........there might be a few bob in it yet for anyone that can stick it

jimmy G M

amacca wrote: »

Maybe there is............. put pressure on the support network/the little ecosystem they have going for themselves where everything seems to work in their favour

competition authority

politicians etc

air their dirty laundry for them.....use protests to publicise the right message, the kind that would worry them, market the message as merely addressing an injustice, rebalancing an unfair system and keep hammering it home

the offal processing situation

feedlots distorting market etc

Broadcast the message that this is big business strangling country families just trying to get by rear their kids, Maybe challenge the lack of transparency despite processors being private companies, they control an industry and have brought it to its knees, in the national interest there should be transparency so everyone can see they are not taking an unfair cut...the lack of transparency makes it easier for them to take the mick imo

perhaps a sustained campaign of disruption like that might have an effect?


whats good for the goose is good for the gander.....pick away at all the legs on their stool until you can hit them where it hurts when they need the raw material and there isn't an almost guaranteed flow of it coming in to them....

+1000

Water John

ETTG has a piece on the strike in Cahir, tomorrow night.

wrangler

Ard_MC wrote: »

Think we were flyin lambs to singapore not so long ago till a bit of a disaster on a load. Haven't heard of it happenin since.

They were flying calves to Italy in the seventies

Someones going to have to be innovative if they want to avoid an animal welfare problem. there's not enough lairage accommadation It's only by brainstorming this'll be solved
There seems to be no way to get around the lairage problems in France

Who2

wrangler wrote: »

They were flying calves to Italy in the seventies

Someones going to have to be innovative if they want to avoid an animal welfare problem. there's not enough lairage accommadation It's only by brainstorming this'll be solved
There seems to be no way to get around the lairage problems in France

Innovative would be putting the dairy farmers on the plane.

Cavanjack

wrangler wrote: »

They were flying calves to Italy in the seventies

Someones going to have to be innovative if they want to avoid an animal welfare problem. there's not enough lairage accommadation It's only by brainstorming this'll be solved
There seems to be no way to get around the lairage problems in France

Are there going to be more friesian bulls born this spring or is it just that they predict than nobody here will want the calves?

Muckit

Bit of both.

wrangler

Cavanjack wrote: »

Are there going to be more friesian bulls born this spring or is it just that they predict than nobody here will want the calves?

One of those Teagasc/ifa meetings claimed that there;s going to be 400000 more calves than last year....couldn't see it being that

Cavanjack

wrangler wrote: »

One of those Teagasc/ifa meetings claimed that there;s going to be 400000 more calves than last year....couldn't see it being that

I thought dairy expansion had slowed down. That sounds a bit much ok. You’ll find There’ll still be lads to buy the friesian bulls because they always bought them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Who2 wrote: »

Innovative would be putting the dairy farmers on the plane.

Ryanair, €9.99 seats to anywhere in Europe and the calves already have passports. Sorted.