Dublin City Council disgrace again

heebusjeebus

This is needed as when the recalculation of the property price is done (probably after the next election) households in Dublin will see a huge increase in the LPT charge.
We're still working off 2013 property prices.

Boggles

heebusjeebus wrote: »

This is needed as when the recalculation of the property price is done (probably after the next election) households in Dublin will see a huge increase in the LPT charge.
We're still working off 2013 property prices.

Was just thinking that actually.

rivegauche

This is the Council which decided to retain the toll on the road which allows those who do not need to visit the city centre to bypass the city centre.
So it should comes as no surprise that they would reduce a wealth tax which is working as designed to tax the wealthy fairly.
Wealthy people invest in houses as it is an efficient means of tax avoidance.
It happens the world over. My neighbour lives in his house, his wife lives in her house on the far side of the river. Not actually divorced or separated. This isn't some sort of Sartre/Bauvoir arrangement.

Annasopra

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough. Taxation of companies is not.

Its not really that high. I am very happy that Wicklow County Council put the lpt up 15% and are funding a number of projects with it. I think its great that my tax funds better public public services. This populist drivel that you can have low personal taxation and high quality public services needs to be challenged.

lola85

Great how people paying a few euro a week if they feel up to it in a new 3 bed given to them by the council don’t have to pay property tax but get all the benefits as the people who have to pay full whack and pay a property tax.

A fair society.

Eric Cartman

lola85 wrote: »

Great how people paying 40 a week in a new 3 bed given to them by the council don’t have to pay property tax but get all the benefits as the people who have to pay full whack and pay a property tax.

A fair society.

and you'll likely find that more of that LPT money goes into services that specifically are used by those same people rather than the ones paying.

Hal3000

Only thing DCC are good at is driving up on pathways to change bins. That’s it. Oh sorry no, I forgot. Sitting in vans. They’d win awards for that.

Geuze

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough. Taxation of companies is not.

Only people pay tax.

If you are calling for higher corporation tax, then this will be passed on as follows:

1. higher prices for customers
2.less pay rises for staff
3. less profits/dividends for shareholders.


People calling for higher CT should be specific which of 1, 2 or 3 they want.

Geuze

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough.

Effective income tax rate are about average in Ireland.

Geuze

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A good chunk of Dublin’s LPT is re distributed to low yielding counties. So I’m happy with the reduction.

Thank you.

20% of every counties LPT is put aside into a fund for redistribution to weaker councils,

Roger Hassenforder

All the usual "someone else should be paying more tax than me"...

Geuze

BDI wrote: »

Is anybody who works hard to pay for their house now suddenly wealthy and deserving to be taxed for it?

Fair enough if you have 2 or more houses but come on now, wealth tax?

As the main form of wealth held by Irish people is housing, the LPT can be seen as a wealth tax.

Mongfinder General

Geuze wrote: »

Only people pay tax.

If you are calling for higher corporation tax, then this will be passed on as follows:

1. higher prices for customers
2.less pay rises for staff
3. less profits/dividends for shareholders.


People calling for higher CT should be specific which of 1, 2 or 3 they want.

4. They’ll **** off somewhere else and pay no tax

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I know this one was done to death during the LPT/HHC introduction, but calling the taxation of the home you live in, paid tax on everything within it, the materials and labour used to build it, and the ongoing costs to run and maintain it, a tax on wealth is far fetched - especially as many of these homes are in negative equity.

Fair enough if you have several homes, but the single home owner who is slogging his guts out to get by month to month running a home most certainly doesn't view lpt as a wealth tax.

Apart from anything else, a sizeable amount of LPT from previous years (along with motor tax) was used to bring us the massive white elephant that is Irish Water, another clusterfcuk.

I don't know why I'm even bothering making this post though, this has all been thrashed out before already.

Rubbish.

Those who are homeless and those who rent - who must make up 30% of the population - would be delighted to be wealthy enough to own their own house.

The LPT is a wealth tax, end of story.

padd b1975

Jeff2 wrote: »

They should make it easier to pay online for more people.

Yeah, that's what's causing the arrears.

weldoninhio

blanch152 wrote: »

The money should be use for social housing, a disgrace once again from the council.

Doesn't quite a big % of the LPT get removed from Dublin and spent elsewhere.

Geuze

weldoninhio wrote: »

Doesn't quite a big % of the LPT get removed from Dublin and spent elsewhere.

20% of all LPT from every council is put into a fund, to be distributed to weaker councils.

This is known as fiscal equalisation, and happens in most countries.

Geuze

padd b1975 wrote: »

Yeah, that's what's causing the arrears.

Much of the social housing rent arrears are caused by tenants not telling the council about an improvement in their incomes.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-tax-from-our-cities-still-props-up-rest-of-country-38443184.html

How will they have a road to every one off house in Ireland if the city slickers are paying less property tax?

is_that_so

weldoninhio wrote: »

Doesn't quite a big % of the LPT get removed from Dublin and spent elsewhere.

As others have said they can retain 80% but DCC doesn't depend on it as much as in other LAs as they have huge commercial rates underpinning their budgets so this annual heroic fight for the people is really a bit of a charade.

is_that_so

Geuze wrote: »

Much of the social housing rent arrears are caused by tenants not telling the council about an improvement in their incomes.

It's actually poor arrears recovery. When the LPT started life councils barely got 30% collected.

neris

Next they can reduce business rates to the thousands of businesses in the city they shaft every year

is_that_so

neris wrote: »

Next they can reduce business rates to the thousands of businesses in the city they shaft every year

No, that's where the real cash is and businesses don't vote!

DavyD_83

Good. I do not in any way agree that I should have to pay a tax based on the current sale value of my house, rather than the cost I bought it for.
I bought in 2012, house value has doubled since then.
I could not afford my house in current market (nowhere near it).
It's like a way to price people out of an area even after they have already made the purchase.

rivegauche

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Good. I do not in any way agree that I should have to pay a tax based on the current sale value of my house, rather than the cost I bought it for.
I bought in 2012, house value has doubled since then.
I could not afford my house in current market (nowhere near it).
It's like a way to price people out of an area even after they have already made the purchase.

How about if you never bought it and inherited it.
How about if it is worth less now than when you purchased. Will you still pay the higher tax value or does it only suit you to pay lower tax for appreciating assets.
My neighbour's house would make 800k on the open market and his is more modest than the Wife's.
Owning a home is a tax avoidance measure.
Maybe you should consider that you can't afford to buy because labour is taxed aggresively while holding capital isn't and is further compounded by those who have money investing in housing without any particular attachment to the local economy pricing those who work locally out of the local market.
Punitive taxes are bad be they for labour or capital. Reasonable wealth taxes which are able to target those who would have already planned their away around taxes on Labour are a good thing.

James Brown

Geuze wrote: »

As the main form of wealth held by Irish people is housing, the LPT can be seen as a wealth tax.

Having a roof over your head is a necessity. If you're fortunate enough to own it it's not necessarily a sign of wealth.
Owning a home has become a luxury, but that's another story.

wealth·y
/ˈwelTHē/

adjective
having a great deal of money, resources, or assets; rich.

A house is an asset but you can't sell it unless you buy a replacement.

Also people are reluctant to pay taxes when they see the monies mismanaged and squandered.

Muahahaha

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its not really that high. I am very happy that Wicklow County Council put the lpt up 15% and are funding a number of projects with it. I think its great that my tax funds better public public services. This populist drivel that you can have low personal taxation and high quality public services needs to be challenged.

In Wicklow myself and more than happy it is going up 10% and I give credit to the county councillors for having the balls to vote for it. I hate this rabble rousing by politicians and the media with their scare articles about the LPT going up, its not even that expensive in the first place and its only a 10% rise. For someone who owns a €300,000 house an extra €50 a year is not going to sink them but if you listen to the hysteria you'd swear it is going to make people homeless.

On top of that Wicklow County Council laid out logical and fair reasons for the increase, namely it is going to fund five infrastructure projects in the county. I'll directly benefit from two of them and will be using another now and again and all of them will be an improvement for the entire county.

People need to cop on that if you want good services and a nice area to live in then it needs to be paid for. As well as this when you live in a nice area with good services then that naturally attracts more demand for housing and property prices in your area thus rise in value. Better infrastructure and services=more people want to live there=higher house prices. The LPT is effectively an investment in the value of your own house.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Having a roof over your head is a necessity. If you're fortunate enough to own it it's not necessarily a sign of wealth.
Owning a home has become a luxury, but that's another story.



A house is an asset but you can't sell it unless you buy a replacement.

Also people are reluctant to pay taxes when they see the monies mismanaged and squandered.

The homeless don't pay the LPT, neither do houses adapted for the disabled, or sheltered housing provided by charities, that makes it a fair tax in my opinion.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

The homeless don't pay the LPT, neither do houses adapted for the disabled, or sheltered housing provided by charities, that makes it a fair tax in my opinion.

In order to qualify for the disabled exemption you need to have spent at least 25% of the current valuation of the property. I’d say a majority of disabled owners don’t qualify as they were probably adapting a bathroom and maybe widening doors so wouldn’t spend anywhere near that much.

Idbatterim

these morons are costing this city a fortune and causing havoc! What do they actually do? block as much development as possible, causing housing and hotel shortages. How much money is lost by them hampering development as much as they can? How much is lost in LPT, when they massively restrict size of developments?

What is the environmental and human impact, on massive commutes on the appalling transport here etc? Letting the councils have a say on the rate was comedy, comedy! How will we win as many votes as possible? lower the LPT rate as much as can :rolleyes:

There are litter problems all over dublin, appalling transport "system", appalling water and waste water infrastructure etc, its endless. Then housing, dont jack up LPT, because it might upset mostly the elderly. Even a few cent a day is totally un-affordable :rolleyes: but in the real world, no amount of money is enough for the young and middle ages to pay for property :rolleyes:

https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/rent-increases-are-unsustainable-says-housing-minister-38535994.html

An irish times news article just flashed up on my phone saying rents have surged by 7% in a year! Its a fcuking scandal! Hundreds of thousands getting their housing for nothing and other breaking their balls, actually worse off than the waster with the guaranteed income and "4eva" home?!

FIFTY percent rate of marginal that even hits the working poor! Sure why should anyone other than workers pay any taxes? Absolute joke!