Climate Protests in Ireland

Panch18

20Cent wrote: »

The official policy of the government is to make Ireland carbon-neutral by 2050. They want it sooner, not exactly a mad proposal.
We had a citizens assembly worked pretty well got us same sex marriage and legal abortion. Just means fair.

Not very crazy demands really.

The politicians have a mandate for government as set out by the people, in particular people who voted, that's how a democracy works

A citizens assembly has absolutely no mandate and should have no authority. They should have no decision making authority whatsoever - in fact i'm not sure it should exist at all

20Cent

Panch18 wrote: »

The politicians have a mandate for government as set out by the people, in particular people who voted, that's how a democracy works

A citizens assembly has absolutely no mandate and should have no authority. They should have no decision making authority whatsoever - in fact i'm not sure it should exist at all

They don't, they discuss and make recommendations.
Just like the last citizens assembly we had.

splinter65

20Cent wrote: »

They don't, they discuss and make recommendations.
Just like the last citizens assembly we had.

I think we should do away with the government and all elected officials and just have citizens assemblies on every topic that’s subject to “debate”.
Then when the citizens assembly comes to a consensus the consensus becomes law.
Who do you think should decide who gets to sit on any assembly 20cent? What will the criteria be?

splinter65

blueshade wrote: »

I found the interviews with these narcissists protestors on RTE news last night hilarious, especially the Millennial who says she's ''been in Asia for 2 years but has come home because she feels she can do something useful''. So after 2 years of dossing about in Asia, probably after wasting taxpayer money on some pointless degree in gender studies or some such nonsense, she has now probably come home to doss about on the Dole as a part time slacktivist. The numbers should fall on Friday as the majority of them head off to the Post Office to collect their Dole payments.

Did she walk cycle or swim back from Asia ?

20Cent

splinter65 wrote: »

I think we should do away with the government and all elected officials and just have citizens assemblies on every topic that’s subject to “debate”.
Then when the citizens assembly comes to a consensus the consensus becomes law.
Who do you think should decide who gets to sit on any assembly 20cent? What will the criteria be?

Bit extreme there.

How about similar to the last one where referendums were proposed and we voted on them like same sex marriage and legalization of abortion.

splinter65

20Cent wrote: »

You don't know what she was doing so you made up a backstory that suits your position that they are lazy, feckless people.

Well if she was in a position to drop everything to come back and lie down on the street in Dublin then she can’t have been doing anything very important or helpful then can she?

20Cent

splinter65 wrote: »

Well if she was in a position to drop everything to come back and lie down on the street in Dublin then she can’t have been doing anything very important or helpful then can she?

She could be a brain surgeon for all you know.

splinter65

20Cent wrote: »

Bit extreme there.

How about similar to the last one where referendums were proposed and we voted on them like same sex marriage and legalization of abortion.

But we already voted for very well paid TDs to discuss matters of concern to citizens and make decisions.
Why do we need TDs a Dail a Seanad and Local Authorities AND citizens assemblies.
The citizens assembly worked for free.
So it makes economic sense to do away with the elected reps and keep the assemblies.
All I want to know is who gets to decide who sits on any assembly.
You must have some idea?

splinter65

20Cent wrote: »

She could be a brain surgeon for all you know.

If she is then I’m glad I’m not lying in a hospital in Bangalore waiting for my neurosurgery while my surgeon is lying on the street in Dublin!

20Cent

splinter65 wrote: »

But we already voted for very well paid TDs to discuss matters of concern to citizens and make decisions.
Why do we need TDs a Dail a Seanad and Local Authorities AND citizens assemblies.
The citizens assembly worked for free.
So it makes economic sense to do away with the elected reps and keep the assemblies.
All I want to know is who gets to decide who sits on any assembly.
You must have some idea?

Were you against the last one?

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/About-the-Citizens-Assembly/

The Assembly was a body comprising the Chairperson and 99 citizens, randomly selected to be broadly representative of the Irish electorate, established to consider some of the most important issues facing Ireland’s future. Their conclusions formed the basis of a number of reports and recommendations that were submitted to the Houses of the Oireachtas for further debate by our elected representatives.

NIMAN

20Cent wrote: »

The official policy of the government is to make Ireland carbon-neutral by 2050. They want it sooner, not exactly a mad proposal.
We had a citizens assembly worked pretty well got us same sex marriage and legal abortion. Just means fair.

Not very crazy demands really.

Their co-founder wants the entire UK to be carbon neutral by 2025.

Yes, that's right. 2025. As in 6 years time. He says it can be done if the political will is there.

Madman.

is_that_so

20Cent wrote: »

The official policy of the government is to make Ireland carbon-neutral by 2050. They want it sooner, not exactly a mad proposal.
We had a citizens assembly worked pretty well got us same sex marriage and legal abortion. Just means fair.

Not very crazy demands really.

It's an absurd notion when they can't spell out a proposal on how to get there and just settle for demanding it. The assembly was for the constitutional changes which we vote on. We already have a Climate Change council the government can and does consult so why on earth would we need a bunch of unqualified people talking about it? That's what Dail committees do, with expert guest speakers.

20Cent

is_that_so wrote: »

It's an absurd notion when they can't spell out a proposal on how to get there and just settle for demanding it. The assembly was for the constitutional changes which we vote on. We already have a Climate Change council the government can and does consult so why on earth would we need a bunch of unqualified people talking about it? That's what Dail committees do, with expert guest speakers.

Personally I think governments don't want to touch certain topics because there is nothing in it for them. Like gay marriage and abortion they were controversial and politicians avoided them. A citizens assembly allows for recommendations to be made which the politicians can choose to follow or not. Referendums then can allow everyone to take part. As we found out Ireland is a lot more liberal than previously thought.
Maybe similarly with climate change policies things that the politicians won't bring up can be considered and put to the population.

20Cent

NIMAN wrote: »

Their co-founder wants the entire UK to be carbon neutral by 2025.

Yes, that's right. 2025. As in 6 years time. He says it can be done if the political will is there.

Madman.

Coal went from being 33% of electricity generation to 3% in ten years in the UK.
Considering advances in science and technology it is not impossible.
2025 is very ambitious and probably not possible but being ambitious is a good thing imo.
Most European countries are proposing to be carbon neutral by 2050.

is_that_so

20Cent wrote: »

Personally I think governments don't want to touch certain topics because there is nothing in it for them. Like gay marriage and abortion they were controversial and politicians avoided them. A citizens assembly allows for recommendations to be made which the politicians can choose to follow or not. Referendums then can allow everyone to take part. As we found out Ireland is a lot more liberal than previously thought.
Maybe similarly with climate change policies things that the politicians won't bring up can be considered and put to the population.

They were constitutional issues. We already have a perfectly decent political process which is capable of producing legislation. The current plan came out of an all-party committee recommendation. We've never had an advisory referendum here. If you want to know why look at the disaster of the Brexit vote.

20Cent

is_that_so wrote: »

They were constitutional issues. We already have a perfectly decent political process which is capable of producing legislation. The current plan came out of an all-party committee recommendation. We've never had an advisory referendum here. If you want to know why look at the disaster of the Brexit vote.

Don't see the harm in having a citizens assembly on the issue.
100 people with the right resources dedicated to finding solutions would have a lot more time to work on it than a TD. No harm in trying.
It was called crazy earlier in the thread but I don't think it is a very radical or even controversial proposal.

whisky_galore

20Cent wrote: »

Personally I think governments don't want to touch certain topics because there is nothing in it for them. Like gay marriage and abortion they were controversial and politicians avoided them. A citizens assembly allows for recommendations to be made which the politicians can choose to follow or not. Referendums then can allow everyone to take part. As we found out Ireland is a lot more liberal than previously thought.
Maybe similarly with climate change policies things that the politicians won't bring up can be considered and put to the population.

Politicians avoided them until the time was right, the intransigent old stock had just about died out and organised religion was on the wane. We saw how certain politicians changed their views when they saw which way the wind was blowing on abortion. They lost no time putting on the Repeal jersey.

drunkmonkey

20Cent wrote: »

Don't see the harm in having a citizens assembly on the issue.
100 people with the right resources dedicated to finding solutions would have a lot more time to work on it than a TD. No harm in trying.
It was called crazy earlier in the thread but I don't think it is a very radical or even controversial proposal.

Citizens assembly is an abomination of democracy. It's taking a very small sample group and if red c polls are anything to go by a small sample of people don't reflect the country. You can point to gay marriage and abortion and say it was a success but a lot of people didn't vote and our lefty media did what left media does.
Only 50% of people turned out to vote on abortion, a media leaning to the right and the result could have been a lot different.
I'd say those women with the Harris you legend posters would beat the head off him these days.
It's a complete cop out for politicans.

lleti

People actually think it's ministers who think of these ideas :pac::pac::pac:

There's a load of people in the back called advisors who would do the same thing as such proposed citizens assembly.

NIMAN

20Cent wrote: »

Coal went from being 33% of electricity generation to 3% in ten years in the UK.
Considering advances in science and technology it is not impossible.
2025 is very ambitious and probably not possible but being ambitious is a good thing imo.
Most European countries are proposing to be carbon neutral by 2050.

Big difference in 6 yrs and 31 years though.

As for the coal example, but what is the % that are fossil fuels still? No point saying coal was reduced if they are burning more oil or gas. Fossil fuels are fossil fuels.

A big point for the UK is that they don't seem to have the fear of nuclear, which would satisfy a lot of future energy demand cleanly.

MrAbyss

this is pure gold