Is Climate 'Activism' Becoming a Cult?

riffmongous

Hooter23 wrote: »

We cant even predict the weather 2 weeks in advance...the whole climate change predictions seem to be based just on what the weather has been doing over the passed few years...first the temperatures were rising so they called it "Global Warming"...now that they got it wrong and we have seen much colder winters in recent years it was changed to "Climate Change"...So now that covers all weather if we have hot..cold..dry..wet weather...its all because of climate change they can never be wrong again...:rolleyes:

How do climate models and predictions work and how are they different to weather forecasts? What are the key differences there considering we can't predict the weather 2 weeks in advance, explain how it works to us since you are so sure it's wrong.

Much colder winters.. where exactly? Maybe they had to change the phrasing because some people can't distinguish between 'global' warming and their local winters. Or because these people don't get that you can have colder winters and still have warming over the year on average.

Danno

Carol25 wrote: »

I started off as a climate change sceptic years ago, sure the Earth might warm slightly but no major harm done was my motto. We all needed fossil fuels to live, and economic growth to earn a living and survive.
However since that time I’ve done a lot of travel and research and I’ve come to the conclusion that two major issues are being confused into one:
1. Man made pollution
2. Climate change
1. My personal opinion is that man made pollution is at completely unsustainable levels and have been for years. Saw a recent documentary on vegetables being grown in PLASTIC in Spain, it’s left in the soil once vegetables are taken and eventually ends up in the Mediterranean. Which ends up in fish’s diets, etc. This is just one example of how we’re just not doing enough as a human race against waste, pollution and destroying the Earth’s environment. The amazon, fish stocks, species extinctions, etc. These are all happening and we are destroying our planet.
2. Climate change is a very real issue, and the data and research shows that clearly to me. Ice percentages worldwide are falling, the earth is getting hotter, more extremes of everything.

In conclusion, you can call it a Planetary crisis, climate crisis, pollution crisis, a ‘cult’ or anything you want. It’s happening, it’s real and we are not creating a sustainable future for our children. We owe them better than this.

P.s. I’m also genuinely shocked that an autistic 16 year old girl who has managed to mobilise the youth of today to help their future - a very worthy cause, is the subject of such abuse on other social media sites from adults (a huge amount of them being men) who should hang their heads in shame. The internet has truly created a way to divide and conquer us and people are jumping in head first without a thought for their actions.

Some reasonable arguments made here, and I think you've made an important point in separating two separate issues - 1: The Pollution and 2: The Climate.

1: The Pollution: This I feel is something we all as individual citizens can work on and to be fair to the Irish people we are keen recyclers and our countryside, rivers, lakes and beaches are kept fairly clean and tidy. Yes there are blackspots and there could be more done but we're going in the right direction overall. I did make a point earlier about participation, there is a large part of the population that don't have much civic pride and don't go out into their communities and volunteer time to help and that certainly is true for most of the communities - only a small dedicated cohort doing anything.

2: Climate Change: Yes there are changes in the climate system, but to say that humans are directly responsible for all of it is OTT. Many doom-and-gloom predictions have been made and looking back at those predictions which have expired now puts the credibility of such claims in the comedy section. Talk in the late 80s and early 90s that entire nations would be gone under water by the year 2000, talk in the early 2000s that British children just won't know what snow is come 2010, and so forth... all hyperbole. Then there is a huge void of trust in the IPCC when their impartiality was questioned a decade ago when leaked documents certainly raised eyebrows then.

RE: Greta. Yes there have been nasty things said, but that is par for the course. I see extremists on both sides knock pretty nasty lumps out of the other, remember the smirking US kid and how many people wanted to smack the face off him, etc... horrible stuff too. I'm a firm believer of being critical of the message, not the messenger. I would actually agree with Ryan Tubridy (shock) on what he said on the radio the other day, and I'm not much of a Tubbs fan.

Overall I feel the whole thing has become overly politicised and one doesn't have to scratch much under the surface to realise this. All the pressure to "do something" is on caucasian majority nations. Very little if any finger-wagging is directed at Asian, African or south American nations who are by and far the worst polluters, biggest C02 emitters and so forth... As stated earlier, moving away from fossil fuels should be a long term goal, they are dirty in the main and they'll eventually run out anyway.

Gaoth Laidir

I have a problem with the exaggeration and misrepresentation that occurs now daily - especially in the media, but on here too - regarding attribution of literally every weather event as more "evidence" of the impending doom. They do a piece on clumate change and they include clips of a hurricane, snow, a flood, people on a beach, etc. No questions asked. This seems to be so subliminal at this stage that the message is being believed that if we get a winter storm, if a Cat 3 hurricane comes near the States, that this is all a sign. People now automatically see a hurricane flatten the Bahamas and use this as ammunition that yep, see, there's more evidence for ya. There is zero policing of what the media are portraying as "fact", which of course suits the narrative.

I'm being accused here of beating the same old "denial" climate drum any chance I get, yet the other argument gets away with it. Most recently I posted actual trends in arctic sea ice minima that show a flattened or even slightly increasing trend over the past decade, yet you'll never see this anywhere else. Only yesterday evening RTE radio did a piece on Drivetime with the guy from UCC, and Mary introduced it mentioning record levels of sea-ice loss occuring now. At least the guy from UCC spoke about land ice in relation to sea-level rise, but the headline on sea ice will probably stay out there.

Yes, there is some warming occuring over a long period, but the exact magnitude is not known with high accuracy. I do not trust the anecdotal "evidence" of people's memory of days gone by as this is a totally unreliable metric. Local climate variations can occur over scales of years to decades (e.g. AMO, PDO, etc.), which themselves are totally natural and influencers of the longer-term trend. They have strong influences on hurricane activity, yet this sort of stuff is not known by most of the public who now get their "facts" from the clueless mainstream media and social media.

Birdnuts

vistafinder wrote: »

Ask the people that are still living directly off the land and off the seasons around the world. Its changing and our modern way of living is causing it. The ones that are still connected to the planet that is supporting us.

From experience its the human ego thats causing it and its the people with the big big egos love money the most and its them that are going to keep going.

That young girl has no ego. She is working from a different place the place where the vast majority of children live their lives from. Can ye not remember?

Someone mentioned brainwashed. Sorry to say its most of us that are brainwashed to have no connection or respect for the planet or anyone that is coming after us and its the egos that waste all this time arguing on the internet over and over again.

Its the ego that is stopping us from living a modest life style. From experience.

Bad/unusual weather did not suddenly appear a few years ago - the climate related famines in Ireland in the 18 and 19th centuary are a testiment to that - plus data from Greenland ice - cores dated 15k years ago show massive swings in averge temps of several C in the space of only a few decades. The planet does indeed currently face many enironmental challenges caused by us, but these like plastic pollution, over fishing, industrial farming, deforestation etc. are not getting the neccessary time and resources devoted to solving them due to the current hysteria around the climate cult

Oneiric 3

Danno wrote: »

remember the smirking US kid and how many people wanted to smack the face off him, etc... horrible stuff too.

The most disturbing aspect of that 'incident' was just how easily people gobble up, without question or any semblance of critical thought, everything the media tells them, which tells you as much about them as it does the media itself.

Oneiric 3

Pigs really do walk on two legs...

https://twitter.com/James7Holland/status/1176782949150273536


One of the most notable traits of the most vociferous advocates of climate alarmism is that 'do as I say and not as I do' approach they all seem to have.

compsys

Carol25 wrote: »

I started off as a climate change sceptic years ago, sure the Earth might warm slightly but no major harm done was my motto. We all needed fossil fuels to live, and economic growth to earn a living and survive.
However since that time I’ve done a lot of travel and research and I’ve come to the conclusion that two major issues are being confused into one:
1. Man made pollution
2. Climate change
1. My personal opinion is that man made pollution is at completely unsustainable levels and have been for years. Saw a recent documentary on vegetables being grown in PLASTIC in Spain, it’s left in the soil once vegetables are taken and eventually ends up in the Mediterranean. Which ends up in fish’s diets, etc. This is just one example of how we’re just not doing enough as a human race against waste, pollution and destroying the Earth’s environment. The amazon, fish stocks, species extinctions, etc. These are all happening and we are destroying our planet.
2. Climate change is a very real issue, and the data and research shows that clearly to me. Ice percentages worldwide are falling, the earth is getting hotter, more extremes of everything.

In conclusion, you can call it a Planetary crisis, climate crisis, pollution crisis, a ‘cult’ or anything you want. It’s happening, it’s real and we are not creating a sustainable future for our children. We owe them better than this.

P.s. I’m also genuinely shocked that an autistic 16 year old girl who has managed to mobilise the youth of today to help their future - a very worthy cause, is the subject of such abuse on other social media sites from adults (a huge amount of them being men) who should hang their heads in shame. The internet has truly created a way to divide and conquer us and people are jumping in head first without a thought for their actions.

Hear, hear. Well said

Also, as someone else posted, even if climate change isn't a thing (and the world isn't getting hotter and the ice caps are just pretending to melt :rolleyes:) surely finding ways to live in a more clean and sustainable way, which treats our planet better is in everyone's interests?

Oneiric 3

compsys wrote: »

Hear, hear. Well said

Also, as someone else posted, even if climate change isn't a thing (and the world isn't getting hotter and the ice caps are just pretending to melt :rolleyes:) surely finding ways to live in a more clean and sustainable way, which treats our planet better is in everyone's interests?

Winter will be here soon, so time for you to top up your oil supply, or whatever planet damaging fossil fuel you choose to warm your arse with as the days become colder and colder..

compsys

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Yes, there is some warming occuring over a long period, but the exact magnitude is not known with high accuracy. I do not trust the anecdotal "evidence" of people's memory of days gone by as this is a totally unreliable metric. .

Climate change is based on science and data. Not on people's memories. If you think the data is wrong or being misinterpreted that's fine. But there's nothing anecdotal about it. Unless you can point to a leading report on climate change which had in the Reference section people's memories :rolleyes:

compsys

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Winter will be here soon, so time for you to top up your oil supply, or whatever planet damaging fossil fuel you choose to warm your arse with as the days become colder and colder..

No one here is saying we should ban fossil fuels.

Oneiric 3

compsys wrote: »

No one here is saying we should ban fossil fuels.

Well of course not.. we have arses to keep warm after all. But we can all keep indulging our own self-rightousness that it is only bad when other people use the same methods to thrive 'n' survive.

Gaoth Laidir

compsys wrote: »

Climate change is based on science and data. Not on people's memories. If you think the data is wrong or being misinterpreted that's fine. But there's nothing anecdotal about it. Unless you can point to a leading report on climate change which had in the Reference section people's memories :rolleyes:

I was replying to this. I didn't link the uncertainty in temperature rise to anecdotal evidence in my post, though it looks like you've tried to imply that I did.

vistafinder wrote: »

Ask the people that are still living directly off the land and off the seasons around the world. Its changing and our modern way of living is causing it. The ones that are still connected to the planet that is supporting us.

From experience its the human ego thats causing it and its the people with the big big egos love money the most and its them that are going to keep going.

That young girl has no ego. She is working from a different place the place where the vast majority of children live their lives from. Can ye not remember?

Someone mentioned brainwashed. Sorry to say its most of us that are brainwashed to have no connection or respect for the planet or anyone that is coming after us and its the egos that waste all this time arguing on the internet over and over again.

Its the ego that is stopping us from living a modest life style. From experience.

Gaoth Laidir

Hands up all of those who've made the following sacrifices in support of mitigating future warming:

- Stopped using all diesel/petrol/gas-burning vehicles.
- Stopped using oil or gas to heat their homes.
- Not gone on a plane or ferry for the past 5 years.
- Installed solar panels.

If you have done all of the following then fair play, you have set an example. If not, you're a hypocrit.

ZX7R

The thing that intrigues me most about climate change argument is , people say this or that is a scientific fact.
Thing is there are no scientific fact's never was never will be.
There will be theroys and scientific research and papers but never fact's.
So the theorys put forward now will always be open to doubt and questioning,as was in the past and the future.

ZX7R

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Hands up all of those who've made the following sacrifices in support of mitigating future warming:

- Stopped using all diesel/petrol/gas-burning vehicles.
- Stopped using oil or gas to heat their homes.
- Not gone on a plane or ferry for the past 5 years.
- Installed solar panels.

If you have done all of the following then fair play, you have set an example. If not, you're a hypocrit.

One other to add to your list,
Anyone who has not used a general waist bin in the last 5 years

riffmongous

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Hands up all of those who've made the following sacrifices in support of mitigating future warming:

- Stopped using all diesel/petrol/gas-burning vehicles.
- Stopped using oil or gas to heat their homes.
- Not gone on a plane or ferry for the past 5 years.
- Installed solar panels.

If you have done all of the following then fair play, you have set an example. If not, you're a hypocrit.

Are these scientifically recommended measures or more of your "I think I know what I'm talking about" bull****?

ZX7R

riffmongous wrote: »

Are these scientifically recommended measures or more of your "I think I know what I'm talking about" bull****?

Bull**** my be contributing to it all right, not as much as cow**** though 🙄

Hooter23

All these politicians and celebrities flying to all these climate change events on their own private jets...while telling the rest of us to go off out on our bicycles in the wind and rain like eejits....you couldnt make it up:rolleyes:

Meteorite58

riffmongous wrote: »

Are these scientifically recommended measures or more of your "I think I know what I'm talking about" bull****?

Mod Note: Knock it off riffmongous. Take this as a warning, no more remarks like this.

All posters need to keep it civil.

Danno

Hooter23 wrote: »

All these politicians and celebrities flying to all these climate change events on their own private jets...you couldnt make it up:rolleyes:

Indeed, only last Spring did Emma Thompson jump on a plane, fly 8,750km from LA to London to protest in the Extinction Rebellion!

We don't have to look beyond our own shores either, MiggleDee ordered a flight to Belfast from Dublin and insisted his car be driven there while he flew.

Of course this week though, he flew to NY and attended the UN gathering to sing to the choir: https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0926/1078272-president-higgins/

Oneiric 3

Hooter23 wrote: »

All these politicians and celebrities flying to all these climate change events on their own private jets...while telling the rest of us to go off out on our bicycles in the wind and rain like eejits....you couldnt make it up:rolleyes:

It's all about social capital.

Oneiric 3

ZX7R wrote: »

One other to add to your list,
Anyone who has not used a general waist bin in the last 5 years

Or not charged their snazzy new IPhones, built in no small part by child labour:

“The glamorous shop displays and marketing of state-of-the-art technologies are a stark contrast to the children carrying bags of rocks, and miners in narrow manmade tunnels risking permanent lung damage,”

https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2017/09/14/dark-reality-behind-iphone/

SeaBreezes

Im with Danno and there is a middle ground.
'Global warming' proved incorrect, and then re-branded to Climate Change, when the predicted outcomes were not seen. Last year was #nogrow19 in North America the winter was so harsh, and went on so long.
Glaciers in Greenland are growing, for the first time in decades.
The Netherlands recorded its coldest temp in July ever. Then a week later its hottest.

I agree there are two things, Climate Change, and Pollution.

In regards Climate Change, I think Valentina Zharakovas is spot on, so far shes one of two people worldwide to correctly predict the sun cooling and now NASA are following her predictions. Global temps have been cooling since 2016, and as the Sun drives our Climate will continue to cool, for a while.
Unfortunately, due to the change in weather systems and a shorter growing season she is predicting food shortages by 2028, and asking Governments to prepare now. See her presentation here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yqIj38UmY

And she predicted the solar activity 10 years ago, and has been proved correct.
I find it suspicious the IPCC tried to get her paper not published by Nature magazine. Science should embrace all views. Scientific theories are correct until proven wrong. Its Science!

Then there is the issue of Pollution, no-one is saying that we should poison the planet, of course we shouldn't and Greta Thurnberg is an inspiration sailing to the States and yes, there is a LOT we can do to stop polluting our Earth, (and ourselves)

I would love to see the following implemented:

A law insisting anyone who can work from home, should. In every country, no commute, would save a lot of petrol.
Ban travelling for Business, in this day and age, Skype and Phone, there is NO need to meet in person unless its a loved one.
In fact, Ban all business conferences, do them online.

Limit every person to 2 maybe 3 trips on a plane a year.
Ban all plastics immediately.
Ensure every house has a compost bin.
Ensure every house with a garden over 1/2 acre keep bees (though there a skill to that so maybe provide free apiary courses)
Subsidise Green houses, give tax relief to people who save/recycle water.
Replace tombstones with planted forests.
Give trees away free for anyone who will plant them.

Tax the 100 industries that are the greatest polluters on Earth, and ensure that money goes into subsidies so every house can have its own windmill and solar panel.

While its fantastic to see young people so motivated, any religion is dangerous.
And the word 'denier' is often used in a fanatical setting. Science can be a move-able feast, Einstein said a theory is only right until proven wrong.

Maybe both sides are right, the Climate IS changing, and it IS due to the Sun, history teaches us that (there were warming periods in Roman and Medieavel times and today we have the Science to predict it accurately, Zharkova has given us that.)

But we are posioning the earth definately.
We are choking our planet and there are more and more of us every day, and it is the small things that will make a difference. Living in harmony with our planet has to start at a small level and many small changes will make a huge difference.

But keep an open mind. Greta Thurnbergs mother says Greta can 'see' Carbon Dioxide. That worries me, maybe she can. Who knows.

And its right to be wary, there is a LOT of money involved on both sides, carbon and new technologies, and both are very persuasive. And many people have fortunes to make and lose.

George Carlin (comedian) has a unique take on it, he says the planet will be fine. Its PEOPLE who are fcuked. Maybe hes right.
And Gaoth, I can tick only three of your list..

Gaoth Laidir

riffmongous wrote: »

Are these scientifically recommended measures or more of your "I think I know what I'm talking about" bull****?

Have you not been following Greta's prophecies? Or Akrasia's? Apparently the science is settled with virtual certainty that yes, these are the steps that are recommended.

Can we take it that you haven't made these sacrifices, then? Hard, isn't it?

Meteorite58

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Have you not been following Greta's prophecies? Or Akrasia's? Apparently the science is settled with virtual certainty that yes, these are the steps that are recommended.

Can we take it that you haven't made these sacrifices, then? Hard, isn't it?

Mod Note: This post is not acceptable. Goading and baiting for a negative response and dragging the thread off topic.

Appropriate action will have to be taken if this continues.

Posters need to stop personalizing the debate and stick to the topic.

Gaoth Laidir

Meteorite58 wrote: »

Mod Note: This post is not acceptable. Goading and baiting for a negative response and dragging the thread off topic.

Appropriate action will have to be taken if this continues.

Posters need to stop personalizing the debate and stick to the topic.

Sorry but I think it's absolutely the topic. The thread's about the wild claims from the likes of Greta, but she's not the only one. If it's not a cult but a real and credible thing then those making the claims should be the ones making those biggest sacrifices and leading by example. I'd bet anything that almost nobody has done so.

Dubh Geannain

I'm kind of open minded about the whole thing and have a lot of admiration for people mobilising to save the planet. We are manipulated by vested interests on both sides of this particular debate. But we do need to move to more sustainable living regardless.

I'll just drop this here if anyone fancies another angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6hFPhMCFmQ

Meteorite58

Mod Note :Oneric 3 your last post was removed as it was unacceptable .


This thread is closed for now and under review.

Meteorite58

Mod Note:


Having reviewed this thread it has been established that in its run of 119 posts, many of the posts have fallen below the standards of the Weather charter, as well as those standards held in the Science, Health & Environment category. In one day it has generated 10 reports that exhibited inappropriate posting behaviour and conflict between members, resulting in post deletions and carding. Consequently, this thread will remain closed.