Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Landlord wants to give us a new lease after 9 years

Options
  • 24-09-2019 5:51pm
    #1
    PawneeRanger
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭


    We've been renting an apartment for almost 9 years. We signed one lease back in 2011 and things have just rolled over.
    We have always had extremely minimal contact with the owners - if anything broke we fixed it ourselves, etc.

    In March of this year the owner called to say they were planning to sell. Ok, we knew we had a substantial notice period he needed to follow. He then changed his mind and said he was happy to give us another year at an increased rent. We're within a rent pressure zone and what he proposed was far above what was allowed, but we had been paying far, far below market rate for a long time and we agreed with the increase. It was still very much below what he could get.

    In June he asked if we could allow a valuer into the property. He told us it was because they were planning to switch mortgages.

    Fast forward to now, we get a call to ask for our email address and PPS numbers.
    He wanted out PPS numbers as he never registered the tenancy (I know, I know), and he wanted our email to send us a new lease.

    So, my query is - can he make us sign a new lease and treat this as a new tenancy, meaning we would lose the notice period we're currently entitled to under Part IV?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    PawneeRanger wrote: »
    So, my query is - can he make us sign a new lease and treat this as a new tenancy, meaning we would lose the notice period we're currently entitled to under Part IV?

    No


  • Options
    #3
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    PawneeRanger wrote: »
    So, my query is - can he make us sign a new lease and treat this as a new tenancy, meaning we would lose the notice period we're currently entitled to under Part IV?

    Any new lease can only grant you additional rights to those you are entitled to under a Part IV tenancy, it cannot detract from them in any manner. Also- it cannot reset the tenancy.

    With respect of the rent increase- presuming the landlord had not increased the rent since the commencement of the tenancy he/she was entitled to increase it 18%- and 4% per annum thereafter.


  • Options
    #4
    PawneeRanger
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭PawneeRanger


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Any new lease can only grant you additional rights to those you are entitled to under a Part IV tenancy, it cannot detract from them in any manner. Also- it cannot reset the tenancy.

    That's good to know. Our concern is that he's going to try to treat this as a brand new tenancy affecting the notice period that we're currently entitled to. We have no issue with an updated lease reflecting the new rental cost, but we want the start date of the lease to remain at 2011.

    The_Conductor wrote: »
    With respect of the rent increase- presuming the landlord had not increased the rent since the commencement of the tenancy he/she was entitled to increase it 18%- and 4% per annum thereafter.

    We are aware of that, and our rent was increased by 41%


  • Options
    #5
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Less of the speculation about matters that are not relevant to the OP or their query please. If you wish to discuss other matters- please take it elsewhere.


  • Options
    #6
    gibgodsman
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭gibgodsman


    PawneeRanger wrote: »


    We are aware of that, and our rent was increased by 41%

    41%??? What on earth was your rent before hand?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    PawneeRanger
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭PawneeRanger


    gibgodsman wrote: »
    41%??? What on earth was your rent before hand?

    It was very low. Prior to this year, our rent has never increased and we're still paying below what we'd have to pay elsewhere in the current market. So while 41% may sound like a lot, we were happy to do it.

    It's because of this reasonable rent amount that we feel the landlord is making moves to get us out. He could be getting far, far more than what we're paying right now.


  • Options
    #8
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    gibgodsman wrote: »
    41%??? What on earth was your rent before hand?

    It doesn't really matter what it was. The fact of the matter is the rent could only be increased 18% (+4% per annum thereafter). Even if it is at an artificially low level- there is no mechanism to allow the landlord bring the rent up closer to market rates. If the OP were to choose to do so- they could bring a case to the RTB reclaiming the illegal increase- and based on the facts of the matter- it would be a slam dunk case.


  • Options
    #9
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    PawneeRanger wrote: »
    It's because of this reasonable rent amount that we feel the landlord is making moves to get us out. He could be getting far, far more than what we're paying right now.

    Even if he gets you to move on elsewhere- he cannot bring the rent up to market rates- he is stuck at the abnormally low level that you're at. He could sell the property- which is what he'd do if he were sane- but he cannot increase the rent in the manner in which you're suggesting.


  • Options
    #10
    gibgodsman
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭gibgodsman


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    It doesn't really matter what it was. The fact of the matter is the rent could only be increased 18% (+4% per annum thereafter). Even if it is at an artificially low level- there is no mechanism to allow the landlord bring the rent up closer to market rates. If the OP were to choose to do so- they could bring a case to the RTB reclaiming the illegal increase- and based on the facts of the matter- it would be a slam dunk case.

    I think your missing my point, the tenant accepted a 41% increase, that is insane. Regardless of what it was previously. If my landlord turned around and try to increase my rent by 41% regardless of what it was, id laugh at him


  • Options
    #11
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭C3PO


    In my opinion the OP took a sensible and pragmatic approach to the rent increase proposed by their landlord. My guess is that if he had not achieved the increase he might well have put the house on the market. According to the OP the rent is still substantially below market rate so why make the landlord feel even more hard done by?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    PawneeRanger
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭PawneeRanger


    C3PO wrote: »
    In my opinion the OP took a sensible and pragmatic approach to the rent increase proposed by their landlord. My guess is that if he had not achieved the increase he might well have put the house on the market. According to the OP the rent is still substantially below market rate so why make the landlord feel even more hard done by?


    Exactly.
    We're hoping to buy early next year, we're just not quite ready yet. We agreed to the increase because it is still substantially lower than what we would have to pay elsewhere. If we had refused back in March he could have issued us with the 32 weeks notice and we'd be out of the apartment before the end of this year.

    All of that being said, I'm not willing to sign a new lease that has a start date of 2019.


  • Options
    #13
    PawneeRanger
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭PawneeRanger


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Even if he gets you to move on elsewhere- he cannot bring the rent up to market rates- he is stuck at the abnormally low level that you're at. He could sell the property- which is what he'd do if he were sane- but he cannot increase the rent in the manner in which you're suggesting.

    He will certainly try.


  • Options
    #14
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    He can't make you sign a new lease which changes how long you lived there.

    Since you're paying above the legal rent, he can't force you to do anything. If he tries to evict before you are ready you then you can hold this fact over him.
    You could bring a case to get all this extra money back.


  • Options
    #15
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    JMMCapital wrote: »
    Can he raise the price if similar properties around that area are trading at a higher price?

    Not in a RPZ.


  • Options
    #16
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    gibgodsman wrote: »
    I think your missing my point, the tenant accepted a 41% increase, that is insane. Regardless of what it was previously. If my landlord turned around and try to increase my rent by 41% regardless of what it was, id laugh at him

    Not sure why you would do that as the ll will find some reason to get rid of you and there is still ways to get around the rpz. It’s costly but when it adds value to the place combined with a much better rent. It might be worth doing.


  • Options
    #17
    PawneeRanger
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭PawneeRanger


    When we discussed the upping of the rent we had agreed to "one more year". This was all via text. The end of this one more year would be March. If he served us notice today we'd need to be out by May 6th.

    He has sent us on an updated lease with a start date of March 2019.
    I'd rather he serve us our notice now but he may want us gone in March rather than May.

    Even though we agreed to another year via text, does he still need to serve the proper notice period?


  • Options
    #18
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    PawneeRanger wrote: »
    When we discussed the upping of the rent we had agreed to "one more year". This was all via text. The end of this one more year would be March. If he served us notice today we'd need to be out by May 6th.

    He has sent us on an updated lease with a start date of March 2019.
    I'd rather he serve us our notice now but he may want us gone in March rather than May.

    Even though we agreed to another year via text, does he still need to serve the proper notice period?

    He can't remove you from the property without proper notice under any circumstances.


  • Options
    #19
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    OP - the obvious thing for you to do is take everything you've put on this thread and put it in front of a solicitor for advice.

    It looks like your landlord has broken multiple laws. It may be that the tax man has caught up (9 years of undeclared rental income!) and he's trying to recoup as fast as possible. That speculation aside, go talk to a solicitor before it gets any weirder!


  • Options
    #20
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    chillyspoon wrote: »
    OP - the obvious thing for you to do is take everything you've put on this thread and put it in front of a solicitor for advice.

    It looks like your landlord has broken multiple laws. It may be that the tax man has caught up (9 years of undeclared rental income!) and he's trying to recoup as fast as possible. That speculation aside, go talk to a solicitor before it gets any weirder!

    That's a bit over the top, no?
    Its not our job to speculate on the LL's tax affairs, and its unfair to make incorrect assumptions.

    OP, the LL can offer the new lease. It will not be a new tenancy, but a new lease and will offer security to you for the time period of the lease. You have your Part 4 rights without the lease, but technically the LL can give you legal notice to evict if your not on a lease.


Advertisement