MOST HATED PERSON IN IRISH HISTORY?

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nobody can match Cromwell imo.

In terms of actual Irish people, Haughey left a pretty awful legacy in fairness. Also possibly worth a mention - William Joyce aka Lord Haw-Haw, though he probably considered himself more British than Irish anyway (until he became German).

You wont be saying that about Charlie Haughey when you are using your free travel pass on the bus to the clinic when you need to get more incontinence nappies

LordBasil

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Take Michael Lowry off that list immediately, without him there would never have been a Féile or the Trip to Tipp. It is not all about lambasting **** who you don't agree with. If your going to hate someone you should at least learn to spell their name properly.

Biffo got unlucky, who is David Quinn?

It is Denis, not Dennis. As I said, know your enemies.

I respect from your hatred of anti treaty assassins your probably a blueshirt, but what exactly did Liam Lawlor ever do to you? Really?

It is too easy to hate Haughey, but at least he had the cahones to take the proper piss out of this kipp and basically get away with it. He did build the IFSC and reinvigorate our horse racing industry, he was probably a greedy chunt but I can't help liking him sometimes either, I doubt I am the only one.

Michael Lowry is a corrupt, self-serving parasite who undermined his office.

Sorry, I meant David Drumm, not Quinn. Bankrupted the country.

Biffo was not unlucky. He was Minister for Finance for the 4 years immediately before becoming Taoiseach and made many dreadful decisions in both offices.

Liam Lawlor was corrupt and brazen with it and generated a lot of hatred for it.

Denis/Dennis whatever.

I believe the country would have been much better if Collins had lived and no I am not a Blueshirt.

Haughey had good and bad qualities but his corruption, hypocrisy and arrogance can not be over looked despite his achievements regarding the economy.

gibgodsman

Churchill should be removed from the list based on the fact we would all be speaking German and wearing Nazi symbols right now if it were not for him.

Cromwell is the winner

whisky_galore

Edgware wrote: »

You wont be saying that about Charlie Haughey when you are using your free travel pass on the bus to the clinic when you need to get more incontinence nappies

A reminder, when we hadn't an arse to our trousers and mass emigration...this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-bSKsVDr_M

The Tetrarch

Fargo Boyle for trying to rig the sheep contest by scaring Chris the sheep, his own sheep.

Feisar

Cromwell's methods of waging war were in keeping with the time, he didn't go anything out of the ordinary in terms of killing. It's not like he was a Vlad the Impaler type.

And I read that a lot of what is attributed to him was done by others while he was back in England.

How about John Russell Prime Minister of England in 1847?

weemcd

Cromwell seems to be the most voted for answer on this poll, and rightly so.

A name I haven't seen yet, who should be up there in recent history should be Ian Paisley. I and many others believe he is the main instigator of The Troubles, for all the Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries I think he has as much blood on his hands as any of them.

dxhound2005

Feisar wrote: »

Cromwell's methods of waging war were in keeping with the time, he didn't go anything out of the ordinary in terms of killing. It's not like he was a Vlad the Impaler type.

And I read that a lot of what is attributed to him was done by others while he was back in England.

How about John Russell Prime Minister of England in 1847?

Or Sean Russel.

Greyfox

Feisar wrote: »

Cromwell's methods of waging war were in keeping with the time, he didn't go anything out of the ordinary in terms of killing. It's not like he was a Vlad the Impaler type.

Yeah he was no Vlad but he's still responsible for killing way more Irish then anybody else

RobbingBandit

Mary Robinson, ridiculous decisions while president are still damaging the country today.

Special mention to little miss Saoirse Ronan

IAMAMORON

LordBasil wrote: »

Michael Lowry is a corrupt, self-serving parasite who undermined his office.

Agreed, but he gets a pass for convincing the GAA to open up Semple Stadium for a festival, at least he showed a range of skullduggery, not to be scoffed at when you consider the gang of mincers today.

LordBasil wrote: »

Sorry, I meant David Drumm, not Quinn. Bankrupted the country.

An unfortunate scapegoat if you look close enough, it was either him or Seanie Fitz at Anglo, with a dash of Sean Quinn. Drumm was easier to bend over and torture, Seanie had too much dirt on everyone else, that matters.

LordBasil wrote: »

Biffo was not unlucky. He was Minister for Finance for the 4 years immediately before becoming Taoiseach and made many dreadful decisions in both offices.

Harsh enough, but noted on the 4 years in the department of finance.

LordBasil wrote: »

Liam Lawlor was corrupt and brazen with it and generated a lot of hatred for it.

I don't hate the guy, but his actions should not be forgotten, he just got caught, unlike the rest of the FF cabal at the time, ie Ray Burke etc. He was definitely a greedy suited wanker, I will give you that.

LordBasil wrote: »

Denis/Dennis whatever.

His name is Denis O'Brien and in fairness he is not asking for your vote or your soul but if you want to buy one of his products he will deliver it. **** in government and overpaid pen pushing civies spend their entire lives blaming their own corruption on the private sector, lazy chunts the lot of them. I know people who have worked for O'Brien and they all say he is sound out, a very clever man who works hard. Good luck to him.

LordBasil wrote: »

I believe the country would have been much better if Collins had lived and no I am not a Blueshirt.

Most likely ambushed by an organised sniper patrol under the orders of Liam Lynch. You can visit Lynch's memorial in the Knockmealdown mountains in Tipperary. He was shot and mortally wounded by the Pro Treaty army in April 1923, arguably one of the last actions of the Civil war. Never a country did one man make, the argument that Ireland would have been better off with Collins alive is highly subjective. He could easily have lived to be some sort of right wing Nazi, don't laugh or scoff at the thought of it, some of his associates did exactly that.

LordBasil wrote: »

Haughey had good and bad qualities but his corruption, hypocrisy and arrogance can not be over looked despite his achievements regarding the economy.

A man of substance, probably suffered from a narcissistic personality disorder and definitely believed in his own shight. But you gotta love him.

flazio

I'm amazed some of the Unionist leaders of the troubles aren't here. If we aren't giving Churchill a pass for winning World War II then maybe we shouldn't be giving Reverend Ian Paisley a pass for befriending Martin McGuinness.

sbsquarepants

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's the ones you never heard of were the real villains.

Not really, it was Cromwell!

smelly sock wrote: »

John Connors should be a contender.

Actually, Cromwell wasn't all bad i suppose:D

antodeco

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Fargo Boyle for trying to rig the sheep contest by scaring Chris the sheep, his own sheep.

But he did lose the trust of his sheep, which is quite important, for someone who primarily deals with sheep

partyguinness

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Mary Robinson, ridiculous decisions while president are still damaging the country today.

Would you mind fleshing that out for us a little...

Feisar

Greyfox wrote: »

Yeah he was no Vlad but he's still responsible for killing way more Irish then anybody else

I'd contend the genocide incorrectly called the famine would have been the biggest killer.

The English of the day were our version of the Nazi's, the whole country was a concentration camp!

Galwayguy35

I totally get that people don't like dishonest bankers and TDs but I'm gonna go with Cromwell on this one.

Slaughtering innocent women and children that he viewed as sub human is a bit worse in my book.

No one alive today should be blamed for the sins of their ancestors but the Brits do seem to want to airbrush the genocide committed when talking up the glory days of their so called empire.

partyguinness

flazio wrote: »

I'm amazed some of the Unionist leaders of the troubles aren't here.

Sorry wrong quote above...should have been the one about Churchill.......

Churchill was a mediocre politician with far more failures than victories.

He did not win WWII. He never fired a shot in his life and it was the Russians and US that did most of the hard graft during WWII.

But listening to the Brits and the constant hard on they have for Churchill you would be forgiven for thinking the Brits fought WWII on their own and won it on their own.

Hitler was not bothered about Britain- he stopped at Dunkirk and never launched any serious attempt against Britain. As for the 'Battle of Britain' they bang on about (with a significant number of barely mentioned Polish pilots, it was a half hearted attempt by Hitler after pressure from Goering who wanted an ego boasting air victory for himself.

If Hitler really wanted to attack and invade Britain, he would have thrown the full weight of the German armed forces behind it. After all, they had already occupied France so a quick hop across the Channel was not such a problem.

Britain was not invaded during WWII and suffered very little compared to mainland Europe. All well and good sitting in a bunker blasting out flowery speeches when the enemy is nowhere near you. This is not mentioned in Britain too much as they would hate to burst their own bubble.

Hitler wanted Russia which of course was a huge gamble which failed miserably thankfully.

The Brits actually only won one WWII battle on their own- the name has escaped me but it was during the North African campaign.

Don't forget the first general election after WWII, Churchill was booted out PDQ.

IAMAMORON

partyguinness wrote: »

Churchill was a mediocre politician with far more failures than victories.

He did not win WWII. He never fired a shot in his life and it was the Russians and US that did most of the hard graft during WWII.

But listening to the Brits and the constant hard on they have for Churchill you would be forgiven for thinking the Brits fought WWII on their won and won it on their own.

Hitler was not bothered about Britain- he stopped at Dunkirk and never launched any serious attempt against Britain. As for the 'Battle of Britain' they bang on about (with a significant number of barely mentioned Polish pilots, it was a half hearted attempt by Hitler after pressure from Goering who wanted an ego boasting air victory for himself.

If Hitler really wanted to attack and invade Britain, he would have thrown the full weight of the German armed forces behind it. After all, they had already occupied France so a quick hop across the Channel was not such a problem.

This is not mentioned in Britain too much as they would hate to burst their own bubble.

Hitler wanted Russia which of course was a huge gamble which failed miserably thankfully.

The Brits actually only won one WWII battle on their own- the name has escaped me but it was during the North African campaign.

Don't forget the first general election after WWII, Churchill was booted out PDQ.

El Alamein, and your quite right about everyrhing you wrote.

All his speeches were written by Brendan Bracken who was from Tipperary btw.

IAMAMORON

And still no mention of Colin jaysussin Farrell.

Wtf is wrong with you people ?

partyguinness

IAMAMORON wrote: »

El Alamein, and your quite right about everyrhing you wrote.

All his speeches were written by Brendan Bracken who was from Tipperary btw.

I should also add that when the US finally got a foothold in Europe, they did not think too much of the British military leaders and they were pushed aside.

The US told them to get back in their box and let the big boys take over. They were not impressed at all.

The Supreme Allied Commander of the Allied Forces was of course Dwight Eisenhower and the vast majority of top Generals were American.

Montgomery was kept in place and even then he still managed to fck up the one time they listened to him when he insisted on Operation Market Garden.

Hindsight is great.

Ruraldweller56

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Al Porter. Hozier. Conor mcgregor. Jennifer from Jennifer and Eamonn. Alison Spittle.

Why Hozier?

JohnnyFlash

This has just turned into another list of people that cranks on the internet don’t like. Boring.

_Brian

Cromwell

sbsquarepants

partyguinness wrote: »

Sorry wrong quote above...should have been the one about Churchill.......

Churchill was a mediocre politician with far more failures than victories.

He did not win WWII. He never fired a shot in his life and it was the Russians and US that did most of the hard graft during WWII.

But listening to the Brits and the constant hard on they have for Churchill you would be forgiven for thinking the Brits fought WWII on their own and won it on their own.

Hitler was not bothered about Britain- he stopped at Dunkirk and never launched any serious attempt against Britain. As for the 'Battle of Britain' they bang on about (with a significant number of barely mentioned Polish pilots, it was a half hearted attempt by Hitler after pressure from Goering who wanted an ego boasting air victory for himself.

If Hitler really wanted to attack and invade Britain, he would have thrown the full weight of the German armed forces behind it. After all, they had already occupied France so a quick hop across the Channel was not such a problem.

Britain was not invaded during WWII and suffered very little compared to mainland Europe. All well and good sitting in a bunker blasting out flowery speeches when the enemy is nowhere near you. This is not mentioned in Britain too much as they would hate to burst their own bubble.

Hitler wanted Russia which of course was a huge gamble which failed miserably thankfully.

The Brits actually only won one WWII battle on their own- the name has escaped me but it was during the North African campaign.

Don't forget the first general election after WWII, Churchill was booted out PDQ.

They also don't like it mentioned that he willfully allowed 3 million bengals to starve as his fleet sailed by stuffed to the gills with food.

Pikey

William Laurence Bingham (AKA Billy)

Ulysses Gaze

The corrupt Charles Haughey should be on the list.

Tell me how

This thread presents a strong argument as to why History should be mandatory for the Junior cert.

People talking about Haughey, Bertie, Denis O'Brien etc shows a complete ignorance of what the country has experienced. Thankfully the poll indicates some degree of awareness.

LordBasil

Tell me how wrote: »

This thread presents a strong argument as to why History should be mandatory for the Junior cert.

People talking about Haughey, Bertie, Denis O'Brien etc shows a complete ignorance of what the country has experienced. Thankfully the poll indicates some degree of awareness.

That's a sweeping statement.

People will naturally dislike figures who are from living memory and who through their corruption and/or incompetence had a negattive affect on people's lives, rather than say some tyrant who terrorized the country 400 years ago. Irish History includes the very recent past as well as what happened centuries ago, so saying someone like Biffo or Seanie Fitz is, in my opinion, as valid as saying someone like Cromwell.

iamwhoiam

Tell me how wrote: »

This thread presents a strong argument as to why History should be mandatory for the Junior cert.

People talking about Haughey, Bertie, Denis O'Brien etc shows a complete ignorance of what the country has experienced. Thankfully the poll indicates some degree of awareness.

I did history for my leaving cert and well aware of the country’s past . I still put down Brian Cowen . We had just left the memory of a deep recession in the 1980’s and along he comes and repeated history and we all went backwards once again

On my list would be Cromwell , Haughey, Bertie Ahern , Brian Cowen and a few others who let their country down
And last but not least is Mr Boris Johnson who is again happy to sell Ireland down the swanee

Tell me how

LordBasil wrote: »

That's a sweeping statement.

People will naturally dislike figures who are from living memory and who through their corruption and/or incompetence had a negattive affect on people's lives, rather than say some tyrant who terrorized the country 400 years ago. Irish History includes the very recent past as well as what happened centuries ago, so saying someone like Biffo or Seanie Fitz is, in my opinion, as valid as saying someone like Cromwell.

It is an accurate statement if people think that Brian Cowen is worthy of being treated with the same derision as those listed in the OP.

I understand lived history is obviously very influential, but it validates my statement if people are somewhat ignorant of what happened before and are focused on their individual pain.

Particularly given the thread title and intent.

partyguinness

Tell me how wrote: »

It is an accurate statement if people think that Brian Cowen is worthy of being treated with the same derision as those listed in the OP.

I understand lived history is obviously very influential, but it validates my statement if people ignore what happened before because of their individual pain.

Particularly given the thread title and intent.

Brian Cowen was one of us whether we like it or not.

We were all delighted to jump on the Celtic Tiger bandwagon and rejoiced every year with budget cuts and back slapping. Hell, we kept voting them in to Gov.

And anyway, this is the weekly Brit bashing thread so leave it out.

dxhound2005

LordBasil wrote: »

That's a sweeping statement.

People will naturally dislike figures who are from living memory and who through their corruption and/or incompetence had a negattive affect on people's lives, rather than say some tyrant who terrorized the country 400 years ago. Irish History includes the very recent past as well as what happened centuries ago, so saying someone like Biffo or Seanie Fitz is, in my opinion, as valid as saying someone like Cromwell.

After 1916, the only names that crop up regularly are De Valera, Collins and O'Duffy. It needs time to elapse to see if any from the recent past will even be remembered, never mind cast as villains in the mode of Cromwell. They may well be just footnotes in history, like former Taoisigh Costello and Reynolds.

Gregor Samsa

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Louis van Gaal?

uch

I went for Cromwell too, but only because Pat Kenny or Gaybo weren't an option

Fattybojangles

Cormac Reilly Meath referee has to him

pflanagan132

Arlene Foster, Marty Morrissey, Brendan Ogle, Mary O'Rourke, all the Healy Raes

LordBasil

dxhound2005 wrote: »

After 1916, the only names that crop up regularly are De Valera, Collins and O'Duffy. It needs time to elapse to see if any from the recent past will even be remembered, never mind cast as villains in the mode of Cromwell. They may well be just footnotes in history, like former Taoisigh Costello and Reynolds.

I think History will take a very dim view of them.

Anglo Irish Bank might go down as one of, if not the worst, bank in world history. It is certainly the worst bank in Irish History. It basically brought down the country.

Cowen and Bertie's decisions, while supported during the 'Celtic Tiger' years, were ruinous for the country and ultimately cost us our sovereignity and international respect which we have had to work very hard to claw back in recent years. Governments are meant to lead, not follow and certainly not be cheerleaders for a property bubble. It was their job to ensure the banks were strictly regulated and the economy was sound. They failed miserably.

I think the period of the Celtic Tiger followed by the Bank Guarantee and then by the Troika Bailout will be remembered for a long time to come. Irish people now are quite skeptical of any Government Claims of 'Economic Miracles' and don't buy into macro economic statistics and are more concerned with services like childcare, hospitals and housing.

dxhound2005

LordBasil wrote: »

I think History will take a very dim view of them.

Anglo Irish Bank might go down as one of, if not the worst, bank in world history. It is certainly the worst bank in Irish History. It basically brought down the country.

Cowen and Bertie's decisions, while supported during the 'Celtic Tiger' years, were ruinous for the country and ultimately cost us our sovereignity and international respect which we have had to work very hard to claw back in recent years. Governments are meant to lead, not follow and certainly not be cheerleaders for a property bubble. It was their job to ensure the banks were strictly regulated and the economy was sound. They failed miserably.

I think the period of the Celtic Tiger followed by the Bank Guarantee and then by the Troika Bailout will be remembered for a long time to come. Irish people now are quite skeptical of any Government Claims of 'Economic Miracles' and don't buy into macro economic statistics and are more concerned with services like childcare, hospitals and housing.

Governments are meant to lead not follow, but the opposition politicians were slaughtered by the voters when they returned Bertie three times in a row. They have to get into power in the first place. Michael Noonan could only achieve 31 seats for FG in one of the elections. So who is to blame?

LordBasil

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Governments are meant to lead not follow, but the opposition politicians were slaughtered by the voters when they returned Bertie three times in a row. They have to get into power in the first place. Michael Noonan could only achieve 31 seats for FG in one of the elections. So who is to blame?

The public were taken in by Bertie's spin but also the Media who wanted the good times to keep rolling as they profited quite heavily from property adverts. Remember the big property pullout in the Indo every Thursday? People had never experienced prosperity so did not know how to respond and question things fully. FG were hammered in 2002 as Michael Noonan was not forgiven for his shameful treatment of those women who contracted Hepatitis when he was Minister for Health. Also FG couldn't get their message across (WTF was the 'Celtic Snail' about?). The opposition was fragmented and weak during the 2002 GE campaign, Labour leader Ruairi Quinn was also disliked by many.

While the electorate were to blame for a lot, we never voted to give the Banks a blank cheque or to bailout bondholders.

topper75

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Only if you can tell me who Richard De Clare was without googling it?

He was Catholic btw , non British and his burial ground is open to spurious debate.

I knew who he he was but was surprised by the non-British claim so had to google:
Born in Kent though, according to Wikipedia - is that wrong?
Had he been left to his own devices, not much might have changed politically in Ireland. Enter Henry II...

dxhound2005

LordBasil wrote: »

The public were taken in by Bertie's spin but also the Media who wanted the good times to keep rolling as they profited quite heavily from property adverts. Remember the big property pullout in the Indo every Thursday? People had never experienced prosperity so did not know how to respond and question things fully. FG were hammered in 2002 as Michael Noonan was not forgiven for his shameful treatment of those women who contracted Hepatitis when he was Minister for Health. Also FG couldn't get their message across (WTF was the 'Celtic Snail' about?). The opposition was fragmented and weak during the 2002 GE campaign, Labour leader Ruairi Quinn was also disliked by many.

While the electorate were to blame for a lot, we never voted to give the Banks a blank cheque or to bailout bondholders.

Does that make any of them a worse figure in history than Cromwell? And the bailout was also of the depositors of the banks, and those who had mortgages. They would have been left penniless and homeless if the advice of the Left had been followed.

LordBasil

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Does that make any of them a worse figure in history than Cromwell? And the bailout was also of the depositors of the banks, and those who had mortgages. They would have been left penniless and homeless if the advice of the Left had been followed.

Depends on which way you look at things.

I mean obviously they did not murder people or beseige Drogheda but their actions did cause economic devastation across the country and drove some people to commit suicide but they were not war mongerers or tyrants so maybe not.

It's all relative to the times they lived in I suppose....

dxhound2005

LordBasil wrote: »

Depends on which way you look at things.

I mean obviously they did not murder people or beseige Drogheda but their actions did cause economic devastation across the country and drove some people to commit suicide but they were not war mongerers or tyrants so maybe not.

It's all relative to the times they lived in I suppose....

Worse economic devastation happened in the 1980's, with a couple of obvious differences. No immigration then, so the unemployment and emigration were even more striking. No negative equity either, and the biggest source of anger in the recent one was from people who went into negative equity.

There will be future recessions, and those in power will suffer the same reaction as Haughey and Ahern got. But it looks like negative equity won't be a feature of the next one. It never featured before, because of strict lending rules in the past.

Ulysses Gaze

Tell me how wrote: »

This thread presents a strong argument as to why History should be mandatory for the Junior cert.

People talking about Haughey, Bertie, Denis O'Brien etc shows a complete ignorance of what the country has experienced. Thankfully the poll indicates some degree of awareness.

I studied history and the corrupt Haughey should be an option on the list given his extremely malign influence on politics in the country that still reverberates today.

The Late Late Show

Mike Pence should be on this list. He is of Irish descent and is the de facto leader of the worst American government in living memory. Blessed be the spuds, may the lord open be gorrah!

The Late Late Show

uch wrote: »

I went for Cromwell too, but only because Pat Kenny or Gaybo weren't an option

All the people on the list or dead. Plenty alive that now pose a real threat. Mike Pence? Steve Bannon? Dermot Bannon?!?!

daheff

wheres the option for Bono? That gobdaw has been embarassing us around the world for years

Tell me how

The Late Late Show wrote: »

All the people on the list or dead. Plenty alive that now pose a real threat. Mike Pence? Steve Bannon? Dermot Bannon?!?!

Thread title.

MOST HATED PERSON IN IRISH HISTORY?

Not, who is Irish society or ireland most at risk from?

cj maxx

The Late Late Show wrote: »

All the people on the list or dead. Plenty alive that now pose a real threat. Mike Pence? Steve Bannon? Dermot Bannon?!?!

Mike Pence ? Why ?