Windsor Park to host 2021 European Super Cup?

TheCitizen

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0924/1077986-windsor-park-to-host-2021-european-super-cup/

How did this happen? 18,614 seater stadium owned by Linfield. Something seriously up with that.

gwalk

It was in Estonia in a 14 thousand seater stadium 2 years ago...

And Prague in 2013 which only holds a thousand more...

TheCitizen

gwalk wrote: »

It was in Estonia in a 14 thousand seater stadium 2 years ago...

And Prague in 2013 which only holds a thousand more...

Yeah. I guess it's not a fixture that needs a big capacity. It used to be in the Monaco stadium for years which is around 18,000. Thomond Park should try to get it.

Agent Coulson

Fingers crossed Celtic win the Europa League that year.

TheCitizen

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Fingers crossed Celtic win the Europa League that year.

We want to win the EL this year and then get straight into the CL and win that next year. All roads lead to Belfast 2021:)

citytillidie

It is bigger than where it hosted for years Stade Louis II 18,523.

UEFA are moving it around to places that are not big enough to host Europa or Champions League finals

Arghus

Just in time to celebrate Irish reunification.

LiamoSail

Have the DUP objected to a European event being held only in NI and not “the mainland” yet?

Zebra3

TheCitizen wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0924/1077986-windsor-park-to-host-2021-european-super-cup/

How did this happen? 18,614 seater stadium owned by Linfield. Something seriously up with that.

What has who the owners are got to do with anything?

TheCitizen

Zebra3 wrote: »

What has who the owners are got to do with anything?

They own that stadium and get a lot of money out of Norn Iron games being hosted there and now this game as well. I think it puts them at a very unfair advantage over other clubs in their league given how small the league is and how generally little resources there is in it.

Fr Tod Umptious

TheCitizen wrote: »

They own that stadium and get a lot of money out of Norn Iron games being hosted there and now this game as well. I think it puts them at a very unfair advantage over other clubs in their league given how small the league is and how generally little resources there is in it.

Since when did anyone around here start giving a fcuk about parity in The Irish League ?

TheCitizen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Since when did anyone around here start giving a fcuk about parity in The Irish League ?

Calm down there Tod, making a point is all, if that's ok with you. I think it is an interesting point that most people would be surprised at perhaps, I know I was when I heard it first. It would be like Shamrock Rovers owning Lansdowne Road.

NIMAN

Great to see.
I'll be on the bandwagon and try to get a ticket for it!

The Super Cup is never really held in massive stadia from what I can see.
Its more or less a Charity Shield event.

Cookiemunster

TheCitizen wrote: »

Calm down there Tod, making a point is all, if that's ok with you. I think it is an interesting point that most people would be surprised at perhaps, I know I was when I heard it first. It would be like Shamrock Rovers owning Lansdowne Road.

Why would Shamrock Rovers own a rugby stadium?

TheCitizen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Why would Shamrock Rovers own a rugby stadium?

Lansdowne road is now owned 50/50 by the IRFU and the FAI


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviva_Stadium

Cookiemunster

TheCitizen wrote: »

Lansdowne road is now owned 50/50 by the IRFU and the FAI


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviva_Stadium

OK, that went right over your head. Lansdowne Road was owned by the IRFU for 134 years and was rented by the FAI for only it's final 35 years. Therefore it could never have been owned by the likes of Shamrock Rovers, so isn't in anyway comparable to the situation at Windsor Park.

Yes, since 2010 the new stadium is 50/50 owned, but the land it's built on is still 100% IRFU owned. And the way the FAI are going the stadium will probably soon be back in 100% IRFU ownership.

TheCitizen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

OK, that went right over your head. Lansdowne Road was owned by the IRFU for 134 years and was rented by the FAI for only it's final 35 years. Therefore it could never have been owned by the likes of Shamrock Rovers, so isn't in anyway comparable to the situation at Windsor Park.

Yes, since 2010 the new stadium is 50/50 owned, but the land it's built on is still 100% IRFU owned. And the way the FAI are going the stadium will probably soon be back in 100% IRFU ownership.

The original comparison was based on a hypothetical premise that appears to have gone way over your head. A hypothetical premise where one club owned the stadium where the national team plays and enjoys revenue from that source in a league (both of the leagues in question) where revenue is hard to come by. A little bit of imagination is all that's required to figure out what I'm getting at.

ArmaniJeanss

TheCitizen wrote: »

They own that stadium and get a lot of money out of Norn Iron games being hosted there and now this game as well. I think it puts them at a very unfair advantage over other clubs in their league given how small the league is and how generally little resources there is in it.

If it makes you feel better these games aren't that easy for the ground owner to make money from.
UEFA don't pay a hiring fee and they keep the ticket money/tv money.
The money that comes in is a 'wider economy' thing from travelling fans booking hotels/food etc.

TheCitizen

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If it makes you feel better these games aren't that easy for the ground owner to make money from.
UEFA don't pay a hiring fee and they keep the ticket money/tv money.
The money that comes in is a 'wider economy' thing from travelling fans booking hotels/food etc.

If it makes me feel better? Funny attitude to this thread from some on here. A kind of "nothing to see here.... move on move on" approach. Wonder what that's about?

I never thought about it much before tbh but with Windsor Park being awarded this game when you look into the background there; actually it stinks like hell.

When Windsor Park was falling apart there were plans to build a multi purpose soccer, rugby and GAA stadium on the grounds of the Maze prison but of course that proposal was met with resistance from the usual predictable sources. Instead the government money went into refurbishing Windsor Park.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Park

From the linked article;

"In February 2013, planning permission for the redevelopment was granted, with the estimated cost of the project around £29.2 million, of which £25.2 million would come from government funding. It was planned for the work to begin in September 2013.[12] Two months later however, an application for leave for judicial review of the government funding was lodged by Crusaders, who claimed that it was against European Union competition laws and also a form of state aid to Linfield. In a hearing that took place on 22 May 2013, Crusaders' request was granted, after the judge ruled that they had presented an arguable case that the redevelopment could be classified as state aid towards Linfield. The aspect of the challenge concerning competition law however, was thrown out."

Good to know a little bit about the background to these things instead of sweeping it neath the carpet. And yes, it's stinks something rotten.

No harm to know who and what we're dealing with if we ever have an All Ireland soccer team.

Cookiemunster

Actually UK government money went to redevelop Windsor Park for football AND Ravenhill for rugby.

UK government money is still available for the redevelopment of Casement Park for the GAA. Maybe you should do a bit more reading.

TheCitizen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Actually UK government money went to redevelop Windsor Park for football AND Ravenhill for rugby.

And is still available for the redevelopment of Casement Park for the GAA. Maybe you should do a bit more reading.

So you're going to ignore the objection lodged by Crusaders and the finding by the judge that; "they had presented an arguable case that the redevelopment could be classified as state aid towards Linfield."

Why would you seek to ignore that now one wonders?

Cookiemunster

TheCitizen wrote: »

So you're going to ignore the objection lodged by Crusaders and the finding by the judge that; "they had presented an arguable case that the redevelopment could be classified as state aid towards Linfield."

Why would you seek to ignore that now one wonders?

I'm going to ignore it because I don't actually care that Windsor Park will host the super cup. I'm not in anyway bothered by what happens in the Irish League.

You yourself should probably read the rest of the article where it says that Crusaders agreed to a settlement as it was for the good of NI football and that the SF Sports Minister was committed to the redevelopment. As I said, it went ahead, Ravenhill went ahead and the money is there for Casement Park to be redeveloped.

TheCitizen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I'm going to ignore it because I don't actually care that Windsor Park will host the super cup. I'm not in anyway bothered by what happens in the Irish League.

Well that's convenient, but you seem to have a lot to say about something you say you're not bothered about.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You yourself should probably read the rest of the article where it says that Crusaders agreed to a settlement as it was for the good of NI football and that the SF Sports Minister was committed to the redevelopment. As I said, it went ahead, Ravenhill went ahead and the money is there for Casement Park to be redeveloped.

I read the article in full, I was the one that posted it remember. It didn't seemed to be resolved satisfactorily at all and they all just got on with the work because they needed the stadium built is the way it looks to me reading between the lines.

ArmaniJeanss

TheCitizen wrote: »

If it makes me feel better? Funny attitude to this thread from some on here. A kind of "nothing to see here.... move on move on" approach. Wonder what that's about?

Eh, you seemed annoyed that Linfield 'would make a lot of money from this'. I would be too if was true, I've a hearty dislike for them as well.
I pointed out that the direct income is very little as UEFA don't pay ground hiring fees and keep the ticket money. Thought I was being genuinely helpful but there you go.

Cookiemunster

Did you have any objections to Besiktas, Dynamo Tbilisi, Cardiff City or Slavia Prague hosting previous finals? Or Porto hosting it next season? Or AS Monaco hosting it for over 20 years?

You're seem to be trying to cast aspersions against me, but it would be easier to just admit that you don't want it played there because you're a Celtic fan who hates Linfield. I'm a Man Utd fan who couldn't care less about Scottish or NI football or their rivalries.

Berserker

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If it makes you feel better these games aren't that easy for the ground owner to make money from. UEFA don't pay a hiring fee and they keep the ticket money/tv money. The money that comes in is a 'wider economy' thing from travelling fans booking hotels/food etc.

I doubt that it does. The bitterness over the decision to award the game to Belfast, from certain quarters, is there for all to see.

TheCitizen wrote: »

I never thought about it much before tbh but with Windsor Park being awarded this game when you look into the background there; actually it stinks like hell.

Selecting WP for a game of this magnitude after its re-development was highly predictable. Lansdowne was chosen to host a European final after it was re-developed.

TheCitizen wrote: »

When Windsor Park was falling apart there were plans to build a multi purpose soccer, rugby and GAA stadium on the grounds of the Maze prison but of course that proposal was met with resistance from the usual predictable sources. Instead the government money went into refurbishing Windsor Park.

A sensible decision. The facility they have now is perfect for them. Rugby have their own stadium and the GAA has no interest in sharing with anyone, see Pairc Ui Chaoimh, so I'm not sure why they would even be included.

TheCitizen wrote: »

No harm to know who and what we're dealing with if we ever have an All Ireland soccer team.

You might be able to fill the Aviva once or twice a year with the increase in support, which would be nice. You got 40K at the Switzerland game and 20K of those tickets were FAI comps. Joking aside, the IFA would probably be the epitome of professionalism in comparison to the FAI.

TheCitizen

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Eh, you seemed annoyed that Linfield 'would make a lot of money from this'. I would be too if was true, I've a hearty dislike for them as well.
I pointed out that the direct income is very little as UEFA don't pay ground hiring fees and keep the ticket money. Thought I was being genuinely helpful but there you go.

It's not just about this money for this one occasion that Crusaders launched an objection against.

TheCitizen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Did you have any objections to Besiktas, Dynamo Tbilisi, Cardiff City or Slavia Prague hosting previous finals? Or Porto hosting it next season? Or AS Monaco hosting it for over 20 years?

You're seem to be trying to cast aspersions against me, but it would be easier to just admit that you don't want it played there because you're a Celtic fan who hates Linfield. I'm a Man Utd fan who couldn't care less about Scottish or NI football or their rivalries.

I had no opinion on the matter until I looked up a bit about it on the net and discovered that they were judged to have been in receipt of "state aid".

Cookiemunster

TheCitizen wrote: »

I had no opinion on the matter until I looked up a bit about it on the net and discovered that they were judged to have been in receipt of "state aid".

Your OP says different.

TheCitizen wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0924/1077986-windsor-park-to-host-2021-european-super-cup/

How did this happen? 18,614 seater stadium owned by Linfield. Something seriously up with that.

You brought state aid into the discussion much later.

TheCitizen

Berserker wrote: »

I doubt that it does. The bitterness over the decision to award the game to Belfast, from certain quarters, is there for all to see.

Ah yes. Legitimate criticism and linking to articles questioning the process of the refurbishment of Windsor Park is written off as bitterness, how convenient.

Berserker wrote: »

Selecting WP for a game of this magnitude after its re-development was highly predictable. Lansdowne was chosen to host a European final after it was re-developed.

Yeah so what that doesn't mean we can't raise the legitimate questions arising from the refurbishment of Windsor Park a few years back.

Berserker wrote: »

A sensible decision. The facility they have now is perfect for them. Rugby have their own stadium and the GAA has no interest in sharing with anyone, see Pairc Ui Chaoimh, so I'm not sure why they would even be included.

Yeah you would say that wouldn't you. The proposal to use the Maze site as a pan sport facility wouldn't have went down well with the likes of you.

Berserker wrote: »

You might be able to fill the Aviva once or twice a year with the increase in support, which would be nice. You got 40K at the Switzerland game and 20K of those tickets were FAI comps. Joking aside, the IFA would probably be the epitome of professionalism in comparison to the FAI.

Not in this instance they weren't. This instance stinks something rotten, but no surprise to see you out with the whitewash. We know how things work in "OWC" when it's time to circle the wagons.

The judiciary review and the comments from the judge in relation to this case points to a highly unsatisfactory outcome, but if the job was going to get done on fixing up Windsor Park they had to just get on with it or nothing would've been done it appears - Typical. The judges comments though are telling. It stinks.

TheCitizen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Your OP says different.



You brought state aid into the discussion much later.

My op was questioning the decision on the size of the stadium initially but that was cleared up with a little research when I saw that this game was often held in small seater stadia. While doing a little research I then discovered the state aid for Linfield scandal that you seem hell bent on refuting for whatever reason.

Cookiemunster

TheCitizen wrote: »

My op was questioning the decision on the size of the stadium initially but that was cleared up with a little research when I saw that this game was often held in small seater stadia. While doing a little research I then discovered the state aid for Linfield scandal that you seem hell bent on refuting for whatever reason.

You're not fooling anyone. Anyways I have better things to be doing. Good luck.

TheCitizen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You're not fooling anyone. Anyways I have better things to be doing. Good luck.

No I'm not fooling anyone and I'm not trying to fool anyone either, and I don't take kindly to your tone.

I recall the Maze site being discussed at the time and thought it would be an interesting and refreshing way to turn what had been a landmark scene of the conflict in Northern Ireland into something all together more positive. However I didn't recall the Crusdaders objection and the acceptance of their state aid allegation against Linfield FC when it was decided to refurbish Windsor Park instead. I didn't hear about it at the time but looking at it now it has that whiff of scandal off it.

You seem to have a problem with me raising the issue and referring to the judges comments on his review of the matter for some reason. If you have better things for doing I suggest you get on with it, because you're not getting very far or making much sense on this discussion.

Zebra3

TheCitizen wrote: »

So you're going to ignore the objection lodged by Crusaders and the finding by the judge that; "they had presented an arguable case that the redevelopment could be classified as state aid towards Linfield."

Why would you seek to ignore that now one wonders?

And what happened subsequently?

TheCitizen

Zebra3 wrote: »

And what happened subsequently?

The wiki article refers to it there.

It looks like some kind of undisclosed deal was done with Crusaders and for the good of Northern Ireland football they all moved on. Sweep Sweep.

They needed to build a stadium for the Northern Ireland team so they just got on with it it appears.

Those comments by the judge accepting the initial argument from Crusaders that Linfield as a stand alone football club were in receipt of "state aid" (and significant state aid at that) still hang over the whole affair like a bad smell though.

Zebra3

The situation was resolved.

Nobody else bothered to complain.

I'm no fan of Linfield but nobody was sticking up for them when they had to pay to upkeep WP when the cut they were getting from the IFA was abysmal.

TheCitizen

Zebra3 wrote: »

The situation was resolved.

The situation wasn't resolved is the point. It appears that Northern Ireland would have no proper home venue unless it was just accepted as it was, so they just got on with it unresolved so to speak.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Nobody else bothered to complain.

There was little point in complaining but the judges verdict stands and is very clear in its indictment.

Zebra3 wrote: »

I'm no fan of Linfield but nobody was sticking up for them when they had to pay to upkeep WP when the cut they were getting from the IFA was abysmal.

That's a different argument and you're going to need to back that up if you're going down that route.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Those comments by the judge accepting the initial argument from Crusaders that Linfield as a stand alone football club were in receipt of "state aid" (and significant state aid at that) still hang over the whole affair like a bad smell though.

You found it about it a few hours ago...

TheCitizen wrote: »

I had no opinion on the matter until I looked up a bit about it on the net and discovered that they were judged to have been in receipt of "state aid".

...and now you are saying that the whole affair has been tarnished for years.

:D:D

Guy:Incognito

TheCitizen wrote: »

If it makes me feel better? Funny attitude to this thread from some on here. A kind of "nothing to see here.... move on move on" approach. Wonder what that's about?

I never thought about it much before tbh but with Windsor Park being awarded this game when you look into the background there; actually it stinks like hell.

When Windsor Park was falling apart there were plans to build a multi purpose soccer, rugby and GAA stadium on the grounds of the Maze prison but of course that proposal was met with resistance from the usual predictable sources. Instead the government money went into refurbishing Windsor Park.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Park

From the linked article;

"In February 2013, planning permission for the redevelopment was granted, with the estimated cost of the project around £29.2 million, of which £25.2 million would come from government funding. It was planned for the work to begin in September 2013.[12] Two months later however, an application for leave for judicial review of the government funding was lodged by Crusaders, who claimed that it was against European Union competition laws and also a form of state aid to Linfield. In a hearing that took place on 22 May 2013, Crusaders' request was granted, after the judge ruled that they had presented an arguable case that the redevelopment could be classified as state aid towards Linfield. The aspect of the challenge concerning competition law however, was thrown out."

Good to know a little bit about the background to these things instead of sweeping it neath the carpet. And yes, it's stinks something rotten.

No harm to know who and what we're dealing with if we ever have an All Ireland soccer team.

I'm happy for any joint Football, Rugby , GAA stadium proposal to be reject from the Football/Rubgy side tbh.

GAA pitches are much bigger and Rugby / Football end up being played in a ground that may as well have a running track, poxy.

citytillidie

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'm happy for any joint Football, Rugby , GAA stadium proposal to be reject from the Football/Rubgy side tbh.

GAA pitches are much bigger and Rugby / Football end up being played in a ground that may as well have a running track, poxy.

Sure would the GAA allow it.

Only thing that annoys me is the money spent on Stadiums in Belfast compared to everywhere else in Northern Ireland.

The Golden Miller

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You're seem to be trying to cast aspersions against me, but it would be easier to just admit that you don't want it played there because you're a Celtic fan who hates Linfield. I'm a Man Utd fan who couldn't care less about Scottish or NI football or their rivalries.

You're really progressive mate. Pat yourself on the back

LoughNeagh2017

I honestly would go to the gallows before I would set foot in Windsor Park, the modern equivalent of a Norman castle or something

LoughNeagh2017

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I honestly would go to the gallows before I would set foot in Windsor Park, the modern equivalent of a Norman castle or something

Ah you should try it. Sure your favourite stadium is Stamford Bridge, home ground for Combat 18 and the National Front, friends of the UVF and UDA.

Big Ears

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I honestly would go to the gallows before I would set foot in Windsor Park, the modern equivalent of a Norman castle or something

I was in it for the Frampton card that was held there. It's actually a fantastic little stadium, I can only imagine it'd be great to watch football in.

Well that's if the whole sectarianism/Loyalist thing doesn't bother you. If it does, probably best to stay well away !!

Guy:Incognito

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I honestly would go to the gallows before I would set foot in Windsor Park, the modern equivalent of a Norman castle or something

You been building up to that for the past 2 weeks?

Berserker

Big Ears wrote: »

I was in it for the Frampton card that was held there. It's actually a fantastic little stadium, I can only imagine it'd be great to watch football in.

Have been in it myself and it is perfect for a game like the Super cup. Excellent view of the pitch from every seat in the stadium.

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I honestly would go to the gallows before I would set foot in Windsor Park, the modern equivalent of a Norman castle or something