Why are most families houses and lives in a mess???

Greentopia

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If both parents are working full-time, the bolded bits are difficult to reconcile. Maybe not impossible but life is truly too short for martyrdom and drudgery in order to satisfy curtain-twitchers who don’t care about you. And some people are far too afraid of germs.

Not such a contradiction really. I said both parents are working there but I didn't state that all women work full time.

Half of women in employment work part time in Germany, by choice or circumstances. A lot more work full-time in the east because that became the norm during the GDR, but on average now it's half part time.

There's also the fact that childcare is affordable and accessible for the majority of mothers, and there is a much greater work-life balance there that enables parents to stay home longer with their children with parental leave, sharply regulates the maximum number of employment hours allowed in various sectors-overtime is not popular there, and there is a strict delineation and compartmentalisation between work and free time. In fact there are laws which forbid employers from contacting their employees on work related matters outside of working hours.

Furthermore while commuting distance has slightly increased in recent years commute times there are on average only 10miles each way, and a high percentage of that would be by public transport because they have actually invested in that area for decades, unlike us. Contrast that with the situation for thousands of commuters here stuck in traffic for 2,3 or more hours per day.
More time commuting=less time for your children in the evening and for catching up on housework.

All that makes it easier for parents to spend more time with their children and also have time for housework...but if I was in the position of many parents who've posted here I'd rather get a cleaner in for a few hours a week than live in mess and end up having less time for my kids because I'm spending time struggling to keep on top of the housework too.

I agree life is too short for drudgery and martyrdom, that's why personally I like to keep on top of it and do a bit every day and have one day a week where I have a big clean. I don't think 3 hours every day are necessary either but keeping my place clean and tidy is a matter of self pride and satisfaction for me, it's not to show off to my neighbours.

I'm simply unhappy living in chaos and dirt, it affects my mood and distracts me from my work. I would also be ashamed to invite friends over if my place was not how I like it, but it's done primarily for me. If my house was not what I consider clean and proper then my friends would be well within their rights in my mind to judge me harshly on it. Regardless of how they keep their own homes.

The germophobe thing I agree on too. I honestly think there must be some connection between the obsessive clinical degree of cleanliness I witnessed in German peoples homes and the huge amount of allergies I noticed people have there...but that's just speculation.

HappyAsLarE

anewme wrote: »

I must have missed the memo where women are responsible for house cleaning.

They are if the husband works and they are a house wife no?

Greentopia

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Excuse me but I’ve been to a number of European including German households, in Ireland, and they’re guilty of the same thing only in their cases the experience was worse because they ask you to remove your shoes before entering their scruffy houses.

These were German nationals? well I'm not saying what you're saying is impossible but I've been in dozens of homes there in various places-Stuttgart, Berlin, Brandenburg and Thuringia and never once have I seen anywhere that could be considered unclean or even untidy. You must just have filthy friends... :pac: JOKE

The outdoor shoes off is because they don't want people trampling dirt in their homes from the street so you're not exactly supporting your argument by pointing that out.

anewme

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

I must have missed the memo where women are responsible for house cleaning.

They are if the husband works and they are a house wife no?

I suppose that really depends on what each couple agrees between themselves? Taking into account that in most cases, both parties work.

In this case for instance, poster refers to sister being lazy , as if females are responsible for house cleaning. They are not.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Greentopia wrote: »

These were German nationals? well I'm not saying what you're saying is impossible but I've been in dozens of homes there in various places-Stuttgart, Berlin, Brandenburg and Thuringia and never once have I seen anywhere that could be considered unclean or even untidy. You must just have filthy friends... :pac: JOKE

The outdoor shoes off is because they don't want people trampling dirt in their homes from the street so you're not exactly supporting your argument by pointing that out.

I’m talking about European families living in Ireland. There was a thread on the whole shoes off thing a few months back, didn’t work out well for you.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Graces7 wrote: »

:eek: You see simple housework as that? Unbelievable....Never heard the like.. Most of us keep clean and tidy to please ourselves

Up to three hours of housework a day (as suggested in the post I quoted) on top of a day’s work? Abso-bally-lutely.

jester77

It doesn't take a lot to keep a house organised, but it's like the broken window effect. If you don't keep on top of it, you will suddenly have a mountain of things to do and you will just give in which makes it worse.

I don't know how it is in Ireland, but here in Germany the kids clean up after themselves. Even my 3 year old knows to clean up, she brings her plate to the dishwasher after dinner and helps bring things to the fridge and cupboards.

The kids have to bring all their toys back to their rooms and clean up their rooms every evening before bed. It's not even questioned, they just do it. When they change into their pyjamas they put dirty clothes into the laundry basket.

It definitely doesn't take 3 hours a day to keep the house clean. When I cook, I always keep my bench clean and put things in the dishwasher as I go along. By the time dinner is ready, all that is left is the pots and pans, which get washed right afterwards while the kids are cleaning their rooms. Laundry is put on after the kids are asleep, and that is about it for during the week.

Garden gets taken care of on the weekend, and a cleaner comes in and cleans bathrooms, windows and floors during the week.

iamwhoiam

jester77 wrote: »

It doesn't take a lot to keep a house organised, but it's like the broken window effect. If you don't keep on top of it, you will suddenly have a mountain of things to do and you will just give in which makes it worse.

I don't know how it is in Ireland, but here in Germany the kids clean up after themselves. Even my 3 year old knows to clean up, she brings her plate to the dishwasher after dinner and helps bring things to the fridge and cupboards.

The kids have to bring all their toys back to their rooms and clean up their rooms every evening before bed. It's not even questioned, they just do it. When they change into their pyjamas they put dirty clothes into the laundry basket.

It definitely doesn't take 3 hours a day to keep the house clean. When I cook, I always keep my bench clean and put things in the dishwasher as I go along. By the time dinner is ready, all that is left is the pots and pans, which get washed right afterwards while the kids are cleaning their rooms. Laundry is put on after the kids are asleep, and that is about it for during the week.

Garden gets taken care of on the weekend, and a cleaner comes in and cleans bathrooms, windows and floors during the week.

Most people I know here in Ireland do as you do . I have been in lots of young families houses and they are kept clean and on top of things
Of course their are toys about but that is easily solved with boxes and shelves .
Kids can tidy up as they are finished with one toy , I do it with my grandchildren all the time . If they have Lego out and decide to play something else they tidy the Lego before they get another

mariaalice

Its like lots of things in life the skill won't magically appear once someone has a home and children if the person is the type to have the floor as their wardrobe and believer themselves too tired to do housework because they have a job that is only going to get worse once they have children.

Greentopia

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

I’m talking about European families living in Ireland. There was a thread on the whole shoes off thing a few months back, didn’t work out well for you.

Sorry didn't see this reply until now.

Same applies for most Europeans (you said Germans) I know living here- Dutch, German, Swedes, Czech. Though some are hairy hippy types who wouldn't be the tidiest mind lol but all except the Czech requests shoes off with houseshoes worn and I respect that.

What are you talking about "didn't work out well for you"? *confused* Don't even remember it...

v638sg7k1a92bx

Greentopia wrote: »

Sorry didn't see this reply until now.

Same applies for most Europeans (you said Germans) I know living here- Dutch, German, Swedes, Czech. Though some are hairy hippy types who wouldn't be the tidiest mind lol but all except the Czech requests shoes off with houseshoes worn and I respect that.

What are you talking about "didn't work out well for you"? *confused* Don't even remember it...

You mentioned Germans first. I'm just saying that it's not the done thing in Ireland, to ask people to remove your shoes. Considered impolite that's all.

Greyfox

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Cleaning your home is generally understood to be time well spent.

It is but if your spending over 12 hours a week cleaning your need to get a life

v638sg7k1a92bx

Greyfox wrote: »

It is but if your spending over 12 hours a week cleaning your need to get a life

Really? I expect most people spend more than 12 hours pw looking at their phone or the next silly Netflix show. There’s a lot of virtue in cleaning rather than the fake virtue signalling that most people engage in on the internet while sitting in their messy homes.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Really? I expect most people spend more than 12 hours pw looking at their phone or the next silly Netflix show. There’s a lot of virtue in cleaning rather than the fake virtue signalling that most people engage in on the internet while sitting in their messy homes.

Fucking great. I would love if this was true. Seeing as there are lots if good things to watch, lots of interesting things to read and life is short, this sounds like by far the better use of one’s time.

Greyfox

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Really? I expect most people spend more than 12 hours pw looking at their phone or the next silly Netflix show. There’s a lot of virtue in cleaning rather than the fake virtue signalling that most people engage in on the internet while sitting in their messy homes.

At least you can get enjoyment out of watching netflix or using your phone. Housework is not a hobby, its something that has to be done and if your spending more then 12 hours a week doing it you need to find yourself an actual hobby. Some people allow there houses to get filthy whereas some poeple are overly obsessed with cleaning, there is a happy middle ground.

Cienciano

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Really? I expect most people spend more than 12 hours pw looking at their phone or the next silly Netflix show. There’s a lot of virtue in cleaning rather than the fake virtue signalling that most people engage in on the internet while sitting in their messy homes.

Virtue signalling? Like this thread you started so you could pretend you're better than everyone?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Cienciano wrote: »

Virtue signalling? Like this thread you started so you could pretend you're better than everyone?

Given he's been bumping it for two weeks I'd say it's just looking for notice tbh!

Parents probably too busy cleaning to teach wee ticky the difference between good attention and bad attention, but gosh darn at least they hoovered 8 times a week :pac:

Cienciano

Giselle Grumpy Pup wrote: »

Given he's been bumping it for two weeks I'd say it's just looking for notice tbh!

Parents probably too busy cleaning to teach wee ticky the difference between good attention and bad attention, but gosh darn at least they hoovered 8 times a week :pac:

He used constantly watch Mary Poppins and dreamt that some day Mary would fly into his life. Attention and cleaning, the ultimate dream.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Cienciano wrote: »

Virtue signalling? Like this thread you started so you could pretend you're better than everyone?

That’s not virtue signalling, it’s just a statement of fact. But thanks for pointing it out.

Greentopia

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

You mentioned Germans first. I'm just saying that it's not the done thing in Ireland, to ask people to remove your shoes. Considered impolite that's all.

Yes I know. Not by me though after 9 years in countries where it's the norm to remove shoes indoors. I can see the logic of it now. I wouldn't want myself or others to track dirt into the house from outside.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes I know. Not by me though after 9 years in countries where it's the norm to remove shoes indoors. I can see the logic of it now. I wouldn't want myself or others to track dirt into the house from outside.

Sorry, that doesn’t work and you’re not in those countries anymore. You should also spend less time traipsing around in the dirt, most people seem to manage it but maybe it was different during your 9 years. Amazing how enlightened people become after they travel.

You should watch Sebastian Maniscalco’s sketch on being invited to houses where you’re asked to remove shoes or even better the Sex and the city episode. But if you’re feelings are that strong about it there’s a whole thread where you can justify your reasons there.

ceadaoin.

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Sorry, that doesn’t work and you’re not in those countries anymore. You should also spend less time traipsing around in the dirt, most people seem to manage it but maybe it was different during your 9 years. Amazing how enlightened people become after they travel.

You should watch Sebastian Maniscalco’s sketch on being invited to houses where you’re asked to remove shoes or even better the Sex and the city episode. But if you’re feelings are that strong about it there’s a whole thread where you can justify your reasons there.

Seems like you're the one with the strong feelings about it tbh!

Wearing shoes indoors tracks dirt onto your floor. You dont need to be trekking through mud for it to happen. If I take off my shoes in a house where people wear them inside, my feet are black. Never happens in my shoeless household.

v638sg7k1a92bx

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Seems like you're the one with the strong feelings about it tbh!

Wearing shoes indoors tracks dirt onto your floor. You dont need to be trekking through mud for it to happen. If I take off my shoes in a house where people wear them inside, my feet are black. Never happens in my shoeless household.

Stop, you're not convincing anyone. Fair enough don't wear shoes in your house but when you invite guests that a different story. We've been through all this on the other thread. You lost get over it.

v638sg7k1a92bx

https://twitter.com/SebastianComedy/status/880471007647203328

jester77

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Stop, you're not convincing anyone. Fair enough don't wear shoes in your house but when you invite guests that a different story. We've been through all this on the other thread. You lost get over it.

Sure, just go and be inconsiderate of everyone else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuC8JTct1O8

v638sg7k1a92bx

jester77 wrote: »

Sure, just go and be inconsiderate of everyone else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuC8JTct1O8

We've heard all this. Nobody is convinced.

As I said, take your shoes off at home but when you invite guests it's just weird walking around someone else's house in my socks and why is it that shoes off houses always have kids who have a nut allergy?

jester77

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

We've heard all this. Nobody is convinced.

As I said, take your shoes off at home but when you invite guests it's just weird walking around someone else's house in my socks and why is it that shoes off houses always have kids who have a nut allergy?

There is nothing to convince anybody of, wearing shoes brings in dirt and bacteria. It's pretty obvious.

Wearing shoes in my house is weird and the kids don't have any nut allergy or any other type of allergy. It's just common sense and manners not to drag in dirt from outside.

v638sg7k1a92bx

jester77 wrote: »

There is nothing to convince anybody of, wearing shoes brings in dirt and bacteria. It's pretty obvious.

Wearing shoes in my house is weird and the kids don't have any nut allergy or any other type of allergy. It's just common sense and manners not to drag in dirt from outside.

Sorry but it is bad manners to invite someone to your home and ask them to remove their shoes at the front door. Imagine the aunties and uncles in their seventies coming over for Christmas and asking them to remove their shoes. Aren't you embarrassed?

jester77

Gunnar Shrilling Saint wrote: »

Sorry but it is bad manners to invite someone to your home and ask them to remove their shoes at the front door. Imagine the aunties and uncles in their seventies coming over for Christmas and asking them to remove their shoes. Aren't you embarrassed?

Embarrassed by what

I've never had anyone visit my house that didn't take off their shoes, and I have never once had to ask anyone. Even when tradesmen come to my house they put covers over their shoes when they are inside. There's nothing to be embarrassed about unless you are dragging dirt inside.

v638sg7k1a92bx

jester77 wrote: »

Embarrassed by what

I've never had anyone visit my house that didn't take off their shoes, and I have never once had to ask anyone. Even when tradesmen come to my house they put covers over their shoes when they are inside. There's nothing to be embarrassed about unless you are dragging dirt inside.

Embarrassed by inviting someone to your house and then killing the atmosphere and tone from the outset by asking them to remove their shoes and stand around in their socks. Nobody goes around dragging dirt into your home, in the very unlikely event that somebody stepped in dirt or they were running around in a field then of course you would remove heavily soiled shoes before entering the house but the likelihood of those events happening before a visitor arrived at your home is extremely unlikely.

As for tradesmen, it's a h&s issue to wear covers on their shoes and any tradesmen you talk to will complain about it and can usually identify the type of homeowner who will ask them.

Seriously, have you no sense of social norms or even a modicum of self awareness?