President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

MeMen2_MoRi_

Good closing remarks from Schiff about trump praising the corrupt.
All based off what he heard second/third/fourth hand?? Lol

Water John

Gop couldn't answer in the press meeting, why Giuliani treated the ambassador to a smear campaign.

Good grief, the GOP press conf is all over the place. One main speaker who butts in isn't even on the committee.

Overheal

I notice Nunes in his opening remarks smeared Chalupa as someone who 'spread dirt around' about Trump for the DNC. I think we can drop the pretense that 'dirt' is an illegal slur in these proceedings now, thankfully.

Overheal

One things for sure Republicans are determined to marry the Bidens to this, like a 2 for 1 Impeachment & Grand Jury deal for taxpayers

Overheal

Also dear god, I just realized there are going to be some juvenile, unsavory and salacious remixes/soundbytes of Nunes' reading of the 1st Zelensky call:

Nunes reading aloud... wrote:

But there's no word that can describe our wonderful
country. How nice , warm, and friendly our people are , how tasty
and delicious our food is, and how wonderful Ukraine is. Words
cannot describe our country, so it would be best for you to see
it yourself. So, if you can come,· that would be great. So ,
again, I invite you to come .

...and you know he will sue the **** out of someone on Twitter for it!

MeMen2_MoRi_

Trump's campaign chair: felon

Trump's deputy campaign chair: felon

Trump's foreign policy adviser: felon

Trump's national security adviser: felon

Trump's personal lawyer: felon

Trump's longstanding political adviser: felon

All convicted! That's some crazy conspiracy by the Dems to insnare all of them.. one more to go!

mcmoustache

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Trump's campaign chair: felon

Trump's deputy campaign chair: felon

Trump's foreign policy adviser: felon

Trump's national security adviser: felon

Trump's personal lawyer: felon

Trump's longstanding political adviser: felon

All convicted! That's some crazy conspiracy by the Dems to insnare all of them.. one more to go!

That' just a coincidence. No pattern there at all. He just happens to surround himself with felons. It could happen to anybody.

Overheal

Question for the room:

If Zelensky came out or had already come out and said categorically that there was pressure, what do you suppose would have been his political future? The close ties with the US and the West? Would Ukrainians still trust him after caving to the demand? Furthermore, would anyone else in the West? Would he be impeached himself for capitulating?

Professor Moriarty

Overheal wrote: »

I notice Nunes in his opening remarks smeared Chalupa as someone who 'spread dirt around' about Trump for the DNC. I think we can drop the pretense that 'dirt' is an illegal slur in these proceedings now, thankfully.

Two can play at that game.

Overheal

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Two can play at that game.

Indubitably, it's just show-craft, used to effect.

Water John

So now, it's no longer heresay. We have a witness who listens to Trump on the phone with Sondland checking that the Ukranians are going to carry out the investigation into the Bidens. Statement of witness from CNN.

Overheal

Telling: GOP members eject from reporter gaggle questioning about Trump's witness tampering tweets, going so far as to fake incoming cellphone calls to bail out.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/caught-gop-rep-reportedly-faked-phone-call-to-duck-questions-about-trump-attacking-yovanovitch/

I’m noticing the impeachment is starting to show up on blogs that normally stay out of this stuff, like Gizmodo. Very clear her testimony was impactful; not at all helped by Trump of course! There is at least one point when Castor is questioning Yovanovitch that you can hear his phone vibrating incessantly (this is after the recess, after the media cycle blew up about the trump tweet) and he’s clearly distracted by the fact. I guess it stands to reason literally every staffer in the room (or watching) could be communicating with the members on groupme or whatever in real-time. Who knows how many people were in his ear. Trump?

Zeldin had much softer tone and rhetoric on day 2’s first recess gaggle than Mark Meadows was on day 1. Zeldin argues minutes after the trump tweet that ‘she wouldn’t have known about the tweet while she’s in the hearing’ but this escapes the fact that in any normal case there is this recess period he’s in where anyone could have told the witness in a side-bar that she was being attacked by the president in real time.

Chilling effect on the foreign services, what is the message to every US official now after seeing what the president did to Marie Yovanovitch:

‘serve me loyally and unquestionably, or be character-assassinated and publicly humiliated and accused of crimes. Now, I would like you to do me a favor...’

francois

The Holmes deposition looks interesting and damaging.

Yovanovich applauded for her courage in face of real time intimidation barrage from Trump

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-witness-intimidation-inquiry-marie-yovanovitch-a9205251.html

Overheal

Still not done watching her testimony. Halfway in its already not a good day for Republicans; Nunes in the start of their 45 minutes, nakedly implies to the witness that she is a stage performer for the Democrats and for coming forward, then Trump drilled in with that tweet... sadly if overshadows (greatly) some of his smarter attempts at parliament like pointing out perhaps the witness’ testimony better applies to House Foreign Affairs than Intelligence, because he swept those sentiments into an attack on her personal in effect.

Republicans, especially Republican counsel, notably shifted a bit in tone by the halfway mark. Compared to how Caster badgered Kent on day one - at times asking him a torrent of rhetorical questions that interrupted Kent’s ability to answer, and *sigh* they were all questions about BidenGate - with Yovanovitch meanwhile he switched gears (this after the witness tampering tweet, dunno if it was the plan for the day anyway) and started to treat this witness with far less hostility. Frankly, I think it was interpreted as a retreat by Republicans, from the rancor we’ve seen the past days and weeks. Reports about their fleeing from gaggles after the hearing seem to confirm that.

And blowing up Casters phone, it’s like the GOP in real time was trying to change their entire strategy for the day - which seemed to revolve around painting Yovanovitch in broadly a bad light and continuing BidenGate - when it became crystal clear this strategy’s optics were now a landmine for them. Republicans might have put a big dent in the women vote.

Seems clear Trumpworld can’t continue to pretend these hearings are zzz so boring when Trump personally involved himself to the point where I think it made viral world news and the globe watched the Republicans preplanned attempts to neg on her and her testimony. By next week I think we will see them start to engage this inquiry far more substantively.

Outlaw Pete

Overheal wrote: »

Question for the room:

If Zelensky came out or had already come out and said categorically that there was pressure, what do you suppose would have been his political future? The close ties with the US and the West? Would Ukrainians still trust him after caving to the demand? Furthermore, would anyone else in the West? Would he be impeached himself for capitulating?

So Zelensky is lying, this is where we are now.

I get it though, must be very frustrating to level a charge of bribery at someone and yet the person/country you all claim is a victim of it, says it's nonsense. What else can one do than but resort to loaded hypotheticals.

What the left need to accept is that the situation with the Bidens, with regards to their relationship with Burisma (while Joe was Vice President) needed/needs to be investigated. If Ukraine took the position that they were not going to cooperate with any such investigations, then the POTUS would be well within his rights to use aid as leverage, just as, ironically, Joe Biden did when he wanted Ukraine to cooperate with the Obama administration when they were tackling corruption in Ukraine.

The notion that it's okay for the Obama administration to withhold aid until Ukraine did what the US wanted, but the Trump administration can't, is preposterous ... and don't give me the usual reply that 'Well, the Obama administration had International support to fight corruption in Ukraine' as 1) that support is still there and 2) even if it wasn't, the US shouldn't (and doesn't) need it.

Which brings is to the only card left to play for the democrats, the incidental one: Joe is running for office ,and therefore, Ukraine investigating Biden and his son's dealings with Burisma, at the behest of Donald, is therefore him soliciting a foreign power to interfere in a US election. It's laughable and that's even if Trump did what is alleged. Narratives are not facts and this nothing burger will be dealt with as such in the Senate.

Democrats and the left alike, always accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of and that is what is happening right now before the world, as THEY are the ones investigating a political rival with the hope it will help them in 2020.

Overheal

Your argument really doesn’t answer the question though, which yes is a blatant hypothetical. Do I suppose we agree what the ramifications would be if Zelensky is compromised by his involvement with events so far?

Water John

Zelinsky isn't under oath before Congress. I attach no blame to him, as a President and politician, his job is to do the best for his country, whatever that takes.
Lets's focus on the testimony of those before Congress.

MeMen2_MoRi_

trump is doing what Obama did, Biden?obama got the corrupt prosecutor fired.. why hasn't trump continued to with hold the aid, seeing as no investigations are going into the bidens/burisma on the ukrainian side the recipients of hundreds of millions of hard earned american dollars.

thats pretty weak right from the tough businessman like trump?
why was the tapes moved to an even more secure place?
it was a perfect call after all...
why creation of two channels?
why character assassinate Yovanovich when Trump could of easily just recalled her?
and sondland explaining to taylor about the hold up of the aid..

“Ambassador Sondland tried to explain to me that President Trump is a businessman. When a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something, he said, the businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the check.”

what does a newly elected president owe to businessman/president trump?

Outlaw Pete

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1195500061721026560

Overheal

Water John wrote: »

Zelinsky isn't under oath before Congress. I attach no blame to him, as a President and politician, his job is to do the best for his country, whatever that takes.
Lets's focus on the testimony of those before Congress.

Aye. Obviously I agree there’s an impetus for why he might be intimidated from saying something against trumps narrative, of no pressure.

Cody montana

The exposure of Trump has almost been too perfect.

I still don’t know how people can defend Trump.

Overheal

Cody montana wrote: »

The exposure of Trump has almost been too perfect.

I still don’t know how people can defend Trump.

To roll over and not at least try to play devils advocate though?

If a murderers lawyer just gave up during trial that wouldn’t be well regarded justice either.

Cody montana

Overheal wrote: »

To roll over and not at least try to play devils advocate though?

If a murderers lawyer just gave up during trial that wouldn’t be well regarded justice either.

I meant the general public.

I assume it’s because he’s “owning the libtards”.
If anything he’s united the left.

Overheal

https://twitter.com/shimonpro/status/1196465004763123713?s=21

Edit: also Senate confirmed that Staffers for the Republican Chair and ranking Democrat of the Senate finance committee have met with the IRS whistleblower whom has reported that the presidential audits have been tampered with.

mcmoustache

According to AP, Zelenskyy was feeling the pressure:

In early May, staff at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv, including then-Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, were briefed on a meeting Zelensky held in which he sought advice on how to navigate the difficult position he was in, according to two people with knowledge of the briefings.

He was concerned that Trump and associates were pressing him to take action that could affect the 2020 U.S. presidential race, the people said. They spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the diplomatic and political sensitivity of the issue.

This is just one report but we can expect more to come out as it tends to with Trump. The pattern is almost a low of nature at this stage.

woohoo!!!

Unreal the lengths some folk will go to
https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/1196431527439208449?s=19

Overheal

Overheal

WaPo reports Republicans strategy tomorrow will center around impugning Vindman as a “never Trumper” and that he was the one “working against the President’s interest’s” as Laura Ingraham put it (if his interest’s weren’t the country’s, then she might not be wrong here!)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/both-democrats-and-republicans-look-to-lt-col-alexander-vindman-as-key-impeachment-witness/2019/11/18/3369cb94-09c7-11ea-bd9d-c628fd48b3a0_story.html

I think there’s a conflation here, among the Republicans, of who federal officers and appointees are. You will probably hear it a lot so allow me to add some important context to this popular phrase:

”I serve [THE NATION] at the pleasure of the President!”

Outlaw Pete

Vindman is a nobody in this impeachment from the perspective of what he witnessed and heard, as he's too far down the chain to really matter and never spoke with Trump directly or even corresponded with him.

Where he is not a nobody however is that he is very likely the main source of the "whistleblower" and indeed is the one who leaked information to Politico.

Just from Morrison's testimony alone he comes across as weirdo who badgered Morrison to attend meetings and come on trips he wasn't needed on. The reason for this is obvious once you learn that he was suspected of leaking information and accessing material he was not supposed to. So clearly his desire to go on these overseas trips was purely from an information gathering perspective and not one related to doing the job he was actually being paid to do.

Some of the relevant testimony from Morrison to that end:

But like I say, he's too far down the chain to really matter all that much.

Sondland is a different matter as he claims to have been tasked by Trump and was acting on his behalf when he infomed Zelensky's aides that Zelensky would have to public declare that he / Ukraine would be investigating Burisma/Bidens.

Course he's also told us:

So, that would suggest that their key witness (unless they can get Bolton) is something of an eccentric.