President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

Slowyourrole

It's easy enough to ignore the opinion reporting and simply follow the facts. The impeachement hearings were all in public.

Overheal

wildeside wrote: »

Let me guess, "the walls are closing in!". All you are quoting is conjecture and speculation.

?

wildeside

Slowyourrole wrote: »

It's easy enough to ignore the opinion reporting and simply follow the facts. The impeachement hearings were all in public.

But see here is the problem. Life is short. I don't have time to follow the impeachment hearings. Fundamentally that would be asking me to do the job of journalists. Obviously that should be the job of actual journalists.

It's a sad indictment of the media that it's so biased and corrupt that nobody can or should believe the majority of what is reported anymore.

Everyone in the MSM has their angle/bias and they don't even try to hide it. So anyone that isn't a complete dope knows they are only getting one side of the story or heavily filtered views of events at the very least.

A functioning democracy should have an informed citizenry. And that can only be accomplished with a functioning 4th estate.

Not sure there has ever been one but as things stand it can't get much worse.

ohnonotgmail

wildeside wrote: »

Let me guess, "the walls are closing in!". All you are quoting is conjecture and speculation.

wildeside wrote: »

I don't claim any of the following are sources of truth but as far as I can tell they're not bought and paid for by corporations and the US pro-war machine and are at least willing to challenge the status quo and accepted narratives .... Aaron Mate, Glen Greenwald, TruthDig, The Real News Network, The Nation, CounterPunch, The Jimmy Dore show, Democracy Now.

Some contributors can occasionally veer far too close to a pro-communist stance in opposing corporate power and influence for my liking (the answer to capitalism's problems is not communism IMHO). But as a general antidote to an MSM that serves its vested interests I think these sources are worth listening to.

And just because Operation Mocking bird was some time ago now doesn't mean that kind of thing isn't still going on. John Brennan, former CIA spook is working for MSNBC for God's sake. So now they're hiding in plain sight.

At the end of the day, whatever the story, narrative, I always ask myself this question, who benefits? And I go from there and see where it takes me. The answer is often large corporations, corporate media (ratings are king!) and the US war machine. Rarely is it the average Joe on the street that benefits.

As with Russia-gate and the current impeachment trial, few will benefit ... and that's what the few want.

i dont think somebody who admits they have not followed what is happening can accuse somebody else of conjecture and speculation.

duploelabs

wildeside wrote: »

But see here is the problem. Life is short. I don't have time to follow the impeachment hearings. Fundamentally that would be asking me to do the job of journalists. Obviously that should be the job of actual journalists.

It's a sad indictment of the media that it's so biased and corrupt that nobody can or should believe the majority of what is reported anymore.

Everyone in the MSM has their angle/bias and they don't even try to hide it. So anyone that isn't a complete dope knows they are only getting one side of the story or heavily filtered views of events at the very least.

A functioning democracy should have an informed citizenry. And that can only be accomplished with a functioning 4th estate.

Not sure there has ever been one but as things stand it can't get much worse.

So what about people who have watched the Cspan broadcasts of the testimonies?

I don't believe Cspan editorialise their output

Boggles

wildeside wrote: »

But see here is the problem. Life is short. I don't have time to follow the impeachment hearings. Fundamentally that would be asking me to do the job of journalists. Obviously that should be the job of actual journalists.

It's a sad indictment of the media that it's so biased and corrupt that nobody can or should believe the majority of what is reported anymore.

Everyone in the MSM has their angle/bias and they don't even try to hide it. So anyone that isn't a complete dope knows they are only getting one side of the story or heavily filtered views of events at the very least.

A functioning democracy should have an informed citizenry. And that can only be accomplished with a functioning 4th estate.

Not sure there has ever been one but as things stand it can't get much worse.

Sorry what?

You didn't follow the hearings but you are sure the media are corrupt in reporting them.

How in the name of fúck do you square that circle?

mcmoustache

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry what?

You didn't follow the hearings but you are sure the media are corrupt in reporting them.

How in the name of fúck do you square that circle?

It's what happens when you make the assumption that Trump is great and work backwards from there.

To maintain the belief that Trump is great, you need to believe that anyone who disagrees must have some sort of nefarious agenda. That's why the US is suddenly full of leftists, it's why Trump kept hiring Never Trumpers and why the news is fake.

If it can't be the case that Trump is just unfit, then it must be the case that all these different people are all unfairly out to get him.

MeMen2_MoRi_

The nunes stuff about going to meet Shokin in Vienna ties in with expenses claim he put in around the same time as parnas has claimed he was in Europe.

https://www.newsweek.com/devin-nunes-spent-57000-flights-europe-allegedly-investigate-bidens-1473765

Nunes was also on fox, was asked was he in Vienna around that time, it sounds like he says yes but continues on with other stuff in the same breathe I'm willing give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't admit it considering he's taking publishers of the article to court.

ECO_Mental

wildeside wrote: »

But see here is the problem. Life is short. I don't have time to follow the impeachment hearings. Fundamentally that would be asking me to do the job of journalists. Obviously that should be the job of actual journalists.

It's a sad indictment of the media that it's so biased and corrupt that nobody can or should believe the majority of what is reported anymore.
Everyone in the MSM has their angle/bias and they don't even try to hide it. So anyone that isn't a complete dope knows they are only getting one side of the story or heavily filtered views of events at the very least.

A functioning democracy should have an informed citizenry. And that can only be accomplished with a functioning 4th estate.

Not sure there has ever been one but as things stand it can't get much worse.

Putin has done a right good job in America! his work there is done:(:(

No.1 job for any leader to run any successful dictatorship or Authoritarian regime is to sow doubt in the media and press...control them make the press the enemy (China, Russia, Cuba, Egypt, etc etc) Make the people not believe them.:(It has worked!!! as you can see above

This is pretty shocking stuff right here, where you have Trump and all his followers believing that the only source of truth is from the Emperor himself.

The US will be ok for now, as they have 200+ years of elections and Trump will eventually be F**ked out.

But for the future its looking bleak and all this is coming from the top, the leadership are peddling lies upon lies and lies about the lies and this creates the confusion. No one knows what is right or wrong.

Typical example you had the utter hillbilly GOP Senator Kennedy mouthing off during the week that he doesn't know who hacked the DNC server, it could have been Ukraine!!! Problem is the CIA briefed him during the week that this whole Ukraine story is a Russian hoax....but he still and went and repeated it on Fox to millions of people. They now have this in their brains simmering away. This should be a criminal officence for any elected member to go against their own intelligence agencies.

Gbear

ECO_Mental wrote: »

This should be a criminal officence for any elected member to go against their own intelligence agencies.

That's also a horrifying prospect.

You're left in a bit of a funny position where the authoritarian right are having to come up with conspiracy theories about why organisations of authoritarianism are actually now unreliable, while the anti-authoritarians are having to say, "yeah I know about the Contra affair, and Pinochet, and Iraq and the Bay of Pigs and everything else, but this time they're actually correct."

The US are reaping what they've sown over the entire existence of the country.
They've always talked a good game about freedom and justice, and have always been riddled with fascists.

Most of what Trump has done is ignored the walk softly part of walk softly and carry a big stick. He's shown how much corruption was avoided not by the structures in place, but by people simply deciding not to be that corrupt, because however awful some previous Presidents were, they were nearly all probably, in their own heads at least, committed to public service, however warped their interpretation of that was.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry what?

You didn't follow the hearings but you are sure the media are corrupt in reporting them.

How in the name of fúck do you square that circle?

The internet told them.

This Bloomberg fella seems like a relatable chap

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

This Bloomberg fella seems like a relatable chap

Yeah just your common-or-garden 77 year old billionaire.

Outlaw Pete

Impeachment hearing, December 4th:


https://twitter.com/dfriedman33/status/1199402461850734594

Timberrrrrrrr

Twitter should be interesting tonight

Danzy

Democrats starting to away from impeachment.

Even Schiff talking about going back to his base before deciding on impeachment, he hasn't yet decided his position.

Senators in solid blue districts like Detroit.

Done by Christmas.

1800_Ladladlad

Funny stuff from the US president.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1199410285393498112

It's true

randomspud

To quote that one guy that has since deleted his iconic tweet:



Well, I'd like to see ol Donny Trump wriggle his way out of THIS jam!
*Trump wriggles his way out of the jam easily
Ah! Well. Nevertheless,

wildeside

duploelabs wrote: »

So what about people who have watched the Cspan broadcasts of the testimonies?

I don't believe Cspan editorialise their output

Yeah that's fair enough. If you watch the raw unedited testimony and draw your own conclusions. But that's a lot of hours of CSPAN you're going watch

It would just be nice if there was some high quality MSM journalistic coverage, that's all I'm saying really.

wildeside

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry what?

You didn't follow the hearings but you are sure the media are corrupt in reporting them.

How in the name of fúck do you square that circle?

It's quite easy. I can know the corporate owned MSM are corrupt without watching any of the hearing''s coverage because I've watched coverage (or lack thereof) of many other issues which suggests the MSM are about as impartial and free from bias as Putin's state run news is.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is ... you know the rest.

wildeside

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's what happens when you make the assumption that Trump is great and work backwards from there.

To maintain the belief that Trump is great, you need to believe that anyone who disagrees must have some sort of nefarious agenda. That's why the US is suddenly full of leftists, it's why Trump kept hiring Never Trumpers and why the news is fake.

If it can't be the case that Trump is just unfit, then it must be the case that all these different people are all unfairly out to get him.

I don't think Trump is great. I hate the man. But I also hate the MSM.

wildeside

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Putin has done a right good job in America! his work there is done:(:(

No.1 job for any leader to run any successful dictatorship or Authoritarian regime is to sow doubt in the media and press...control them make the press the enemy (China, Russia, Cuba, Egypt, etc etc) Make the people not believe them.:(It has worked!!! as you can see above

This is pretty shocking stuff right here, where you have Trump and all his followers believing that the only source of truth is from the Emperor himself.

The US will be ok for now, as they have 200+ years of elections and Trump will eventually be F**ked out.

But for the future its looking bleak and all this is coming from the top, the leadership are peddling lies upon lies and lies about the lies and this creates the confusion. No one knows what is right or wrong.

Typical example you had the utter hillbilly GOP Senator Kennedy mouthing off during the week that he doesn't know who hacked the DNC server, it could have been Ukraine!!! Problem is the CIA briefed him during the week that this whole Ukraine story is a Russian hoax....but he still and went and repeated it on Fox to millions of people. They now have this in their brains simmering away. This should be a criminal officence for any elected member to go against their own intelligence agencies.

Your paranoia is off the charts. Russia is not controlling anything. There are no Russians under your bed. Pull yourself together man for heavens sake.

Oh and you might want to read a few books on the history of the CIA. It's ... sobering.

duploelabs

wildeside wrote: »

Your paranoia is off the charts. Russia is not controlling anything. There are no Russians under your bed. Pull yourself together man for heavens sake.

Oh and you might want to read a few books on the history of the CIA. It's ... sobering.

So the report that Russia meddled in 2016 and will in 2020 is false?
And yes, to possibly cut off your point about the CIA, the USA have meddled in other elections, but that's not the question

randomspud

wildeside wrote: »

Your paranoia is off the charts. Russia is not controlling anything. There are no Russians under your bed. Pull yourself together man for heavens sake.

Oh and you might want to read a few books on the history of the CIA. It's ... sobering.

But how else could Hillary have lost?

It was her turn

wildeside

duploelabs wrote: »

So the report that Russia meddled in 2016 and will in 2020 is false?
And yes, to possibly cut off your point about the CIA, the USA have meddled in other elections, but that's not the question

Yes Russian troll farms did operate in an attempt to influence the 2016 election and are probably going to do so in 2020. And?

wildeside

randomspud wrote: »

But how else could Hillary have lost?

It was her turn

If you think Hillary lost because of the Russians then I think you might want to consider other possibilities. How about Hillary and the Clintons in general being deeply unpopular with many American voters. Maybe people were so pissed and angry at Obama's "hope and change" promises which delivered neither (middle America continued to get poorer while he was in office) that when a guy comes along with a message that he's gonna smash up the system and "drain the swamp" they said "**** it" I'm voting for this guy.

Or people can just ignore lots of other reasons people may have actually wanted to vote for Trump and just blame the Russians. It's nice and simple and gets a lot of people off the hook.

And keep in mind after the Meuller report nobody in Trump's admin was convicted of actually working with the Russian state apparatus to swing the election. People were convicted of lots of other dogs **** but not that.

For the record, I hate the Republican and Democratic parties in general. I'm not taking sides on that.

randomspud

wildeside wrote: »

If you think Hillary lost because of the Russians then I think you might want to consider other possibilities. How about Hillary and the Clintons in general being deeply unpopular with many American voters. Maybe people were so pissed and angry at Obama's "hope and change" promises which delivered neither (middle America continued to get poorer while he was in office) that when a guy comes along with a message that he's gonna smash up the system and "drain the swamp" they said "**** it" I'm voting for this guy.

Or people can just ignore lots of other reasons people may have actually wanted to vote for Trump and just blame the Russians. It's nice and simple and gets a lot of people off the hook.

And keep in mind after the Meuller report nobody in Trump's admin was convicted of actually working with the Russian state apparatus to swing the election. People were convicted of lots of other dogs **** but not that.

For the record, I hate the Republican and Democratic parties in general. I'm not taking sides on that.

I wasn't being serious.

That was just another one of the litany of excuses that her supporters had for her loss.

duploelabs

wildeside wrote: »

Yes Russian troll farms did operate in an attempt to influence the 2016 election and are probably going to do so in 2020. And?

Because you just contradicted yourself. Previously you said Russia isn't controlling anything (my initial reply) and now you're admitting that they are

seamus

wildeside wrote: »

Your paranoia is off the charts. Russia is not controlling anything. There are no Russians under your bed. Pull yourself together man for heavens sake.

Oh and you might want to read a few books on the history of the CIA. It's ... sobering.

So the idea of Russia interfering in other countries' politicial processes and public discourse, is paranoia and ridiculousness.

But the USA doing the exact same thing is a matter of fact?

Convenient, that.

It's almost like it suits you to think that only the USA is capable of such a thing