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President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

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  • Options
    #782
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    noel1980 wrote: »
    WHAT?

    He held back aid until a [not corrupt] prosecutor that was investigating his son was fired by the Ukraine govt. 1.5 billion I believe.

    It has been pointed out repeatedly that the Republicans, the EU and the IMF wanted him out because he WAS corrupt. You can't just go around making stuff up.
    noel1980 wrote: »
    May I ask what corruption? The corruption of a tough but fair prosecutor investigating quid pro Joe's son for actual corruption?

    I know that this is the narrative being pushed but it doesn't stand up to even the lightest of scrutiny.


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    #783
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It's been in the news, ad nauseum. The Steele dossier, paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC, on Trump was fabricated with the use of Russian disinformation, and that collusion with the Russians served as the basis for the FISA spying warrants on Trump's campaign and then the Mueller investigation once Trump became president.

    Nope. The FISA warrants were instigated on the Australians informing the FBI of Papadopoulos and his Russian help for Trump.


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    #784
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Did you not see the video of trump asking China to investigate Biden? Why is asking foreign powers to do this instead of doing it himself?
    Trump can't start an investigation. And he probably requested that from China because the matter involving China and Biden is potentially a very serious US crime? Where else better to get what was going on than from the source?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #785
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭weisses


    noel1980 wrote: »
    May I ask what corruption? The corruption of a tough but fair prosecutor investigating quid pro Joe's son for actual corruption?

    Just read below ... Let it sink in

    Then try to come up with a coherent counterpoint

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/


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    #786
    Gwen Cooper
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭Gwen Cooper


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It's been in the news, ad nauseum. The Steele dossier, paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC, on Trump was fabricated with the use of Russian disinformation, and that collusion with the Russians served as the basis for the FISA spying warrants on Trump's campaign and then the Mueller investigation once Trump became president.

    I see. So if there was, in fact, a collusion, is there an active investigation into this election interference? Or was there one? Anyone indicted?


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    #787
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    notobtuse wrote: »
    So the US during Obama’s term held back billions from every country where corruption was suspected? Or just those countries where a matter like Biden’s son potentially going to jail existed?

    And tell me, where did that over $1 Billion given to Ukraine, by the Obama administration, go? Seems any president after that debacle would reconsider giving more money until corruption was addressed.

    There was ample evidence of this prosecutor sitting on corruption investigations, and Biden’s son didn’t have any connection with Ukraine at the time.


  • Options
    #788
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭weisses


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Not in your wildest dreams.

    Im afraid it does


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    #789
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope. The FISA warrants were instigated on the Australians informing the FBI of Papadopoulos and his Russian help for Trump.
    So the Australians were the only basis of the FISA warrants? Utter fantasy! Someone said something to some Australian so let's get a FISA warrant! Nonsense.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #790
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,411 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    If Republicans had launched a formal impeachment inquiry into Obama at some stage during his tenure, I bet you'd have been humming a much different tune.

    In any case, reports tonight saying Trump will be sending a similar letter to Pelosi tomorrow informing her that the White House won't comply with the "impeachment inquiry" until the full House formally votes on it, so we'll soon see who's right and who's wrong I guess.

    And what would they have needed to do an inquiry over? The bicycle helmet or the tan suit?


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    #791
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    noel1980 wrote: »
    WHAT?

    He held back aid until a [not corrupt] prosecutor that was investigating his son was fired by the Ukraine govt. 1.5 billion I believe.



    May I ask what corruption? The corruption of a tough but fair prosecutor investigating quid pro Joe's son for actual corruption?

    You believe wrong. Biden’s son didn’t have any role there at the time. The prosecutor was being criticized left right and centre for NOT investigating the crowd Bidens son subsequently went to work for. He was corrupt.


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    #792
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Not in your wildest dreams.

    It's a bit late for that. It clearly was enough because the an inquiry has already begun.

    In it's first week it even got its hands on texts showing a literal quid-pro-quo offer from the white house and forced plenty of errors out of Trump. Not bad.


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    #793
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    notobtuse wrote: »
    So the Australians were the only basis of the FISA warrants? Utter fantasy! Someone said something to some Australian so let's get a FISA warrant! Nonsense.

    Those are the facts. The Australian information predates the reference to the dossier.
    https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/412836-a-convenient-omission-trump-campaign-adviser-denied-collusion-to-fbi-source


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    #794
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Gwen Cooper wrote: »
    I see. So if there was, in fact, a collusion, is there an active investigation into this election interference? Or was there one? Anyone indicted?
    Yes there is. Barr and Durham's reports on the investigations should be out soon. Expect fireworks. Why do you think Democrats are trying to focus attention elsewhere? They're obviously running scared of what is about to come out and going on a different offensive.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #795
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    alastair wrote: »
    Those are the facts. The Australian information predates the reference to the dossier.
    https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/412836-a-convenient-omission-trump-campaign-adviser-denied-collusion-to-fbi-source
    Did you actually read the article? The Russian fed bogus dossier was the basis for the FISA warrants.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #796
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭weisses


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Yes there is. Barr and Durham's reports on the investigations should be out soon. Expect fireworks. Why do you think Democrats are trying to focus attention elsewhere? They're obviously running scared of what is about to come out and going on a different offensive.


    right

    giphy.gif


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    #797
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,411 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    So all a criminal needs to do is run for president of the US and they are suddenly off limits to any investigation over nefarious crimes they’ve committed?

    Ask the OLC. They say yes. That’s why Trump hasn’t been indicted for obstruction of justice.


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    #798
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    alastair wrote: »
    There was ample evidence of this prosecutor sitting on corruption investigations, and Biden’s son didn’t have any connection with Ukraine at the time.
    Not according to the sworn affidavit by the fired Ukraine prosecutor. You keep conveniently forgetting that... or should I say ignoring that.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #799
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,411 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    It's been in the news, ad nauseum. The Steele dossier, paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC, on Trump was fabricated with the use of Russian disinformation, and that collusion with the Russians served as the basis for the FISA spying warrants on Trump's campaign and then the Mueller investigation once Trump became president.

    Oh so just the normal alt right conspiracy theory.

    Because again: where are the indictments? No similar extralegal protection against criminal indictment except for the President. A Republican just resigned and admitted guilt to insider trading this week (which he was indicted for). So, where are they?


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    #800
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,354 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Relying on an affidavit of a corrupt Ukranian prosecutor who was fired, yeah great foundation.


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    #801
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Did you actually read the article? The Russian fed bogus dossier was the basis for the FISA warrants.

    I read it and it says no such thing. It says that the dossier was part of the subsequent supporting evidence against Cart Page.


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  • Options
    #802
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Remember when the whistleblower only had second hand information and the form was changed to facilitate it?


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    #803
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    alastair wrote: »
    I read it and it says no such thing. It says that the dossier was part of the subsequent supporting evidence against Cart Page.
    Comey himself said there would have been no FISA warrant without the dossier.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #804
    noel1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭noel1980


    alastair wrote: »
    You believe wrong. Biden’s son didn’t have any role there at the time. The prosecutor was being criticized left right and centre for NOT investigating the crowd Bidens son subsequently went to work for. He was corrupt.

    Biden's son had a role since 2014. The prosecutor was investigating the owner of the company Biden's son worked for. The prosecutor was fired in 2016 at the behest of Joe Biden.

    I don't know when the investigation started but the timeline seems pretty clear to me.

    What am I missing here? Seems like the motivation behind the prosecutor being fired was because of Joe holding back the $1B in aid.

    I mean, he's only on video bragging about it. :confused:


  • Options
    #805
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Not according to the sworn affidavit by the fired Ukraine prosecutor. You keep conveniently forgetting that... or should I say ignoring that.

    The corrupt fired prosecutor? Okay. It’s a matter of record that the period of Burisma activity that was being investigated (or not - as was the case with Shokin) for predated the arrival of Biden’s son.


    https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/


  • Options
    #806
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Water John wrote: »
    Relying on an affidavit of a corrupt Ukranian prosecutor who was fired, yeah great foundation.
    Enough to warrant an investigation!

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #807
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    noel1980 wrote: »
    Biden's son had a role since 2014. The prosecutor was investigating the owner of the company Biden's son worked for. The prosecutor was fired in 2016 at the behest of Joe Biden.

    I don't know when the investigation started but the timeline seems pretty clear to me.

    What am I missing here? Seems like the motivation behind the prosecutor being fired was because of Joe holding back the $1B in aid.

    I mean, he's only on video bragging about it. :confused:

    The investigation of Burisma activity was for the years before Biden’s son joined them. The motivation for firing the prosecutor was that he wasn’t actually prosecuting Burisma, amongst others suspected of corruption. He was corrupt himself.

    Timeline above.


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    #808
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,411 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Not according to the sworn affidavit by the fired Ukraine prosecutor. You keep conveniently forgetting that... or should I say ignoring that.

    The sworn affidavit that says what exactly? I have read it; I’m just wondering what excerpt you’re referring to that somehow is incriminating.

    The GOP, State Department, The European Union and the International Monetary Fund were all on the same side as Biden about the loan. He had no power alone to stop such a loan. Also, the investigation into Burisma (importantly) had n o t h i n g to do with the 2016 election or even a 2020 election. Biden wasn’t even running! And no other candidate was implicated in this mess so tell me what thing of value Biden solicited? The value of HAVING Burisma actually and thoroughly investigated for corruption? Shokin wasn’t doing his job and he completely stonewalled a corruption investigation involving frozen assets in London.

    How was Shokin demonstrated to have been doing their job? There is more evidence to the contrary.


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    #809
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,411 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Enough to warrant an investigation!

    Was this cited by anyone as the warrant for investigation?

    Nope


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    #810
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,411 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Trump can't start an investigation.

    Where do you get that bull?


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    #811
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Comey himself said there would have been no FISA warrant without the dossier.

    No he didn’t.


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