Days off

Michelleb355 · 25-09-2019 3:07pm #1

Hi.

I have a bit of a work situation I need advice with. My sister is getting married just after Christmas, I work in retail so just have the 25th off and then back to work. The manager has holidays from the 24th to early January every year and it’s company policy that no other member of staff can book more than one day off during that time. Under the circumstances (I’m also maid of honor ) I went to my manger to explain the situation and he told me there’s nothing to be done only take the day of the wedding off and be back in work the following morning. The wedding is in London so this is going to be next to impossible. He also told me I can go to HR but will more than likely be told the same thing. I’m working with the company 12 years and I don’t want to leave. Has anyone any advice?

cruizer101 · 25-09-2019 3:21pm

Seems strange the manager gets so much off, worth going to hr anyway and see what they say.

Is there anyway you could arrange for another member of staff to cover your shift on their day off.
i.e. you take of the 27th, they take of the 28th but actually come in to cover for you not being there, you then owe them a days cover.

colm_mcm · 25-09-2019 3:25pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Seems strange the manager gets so much off, worth going to hr anyway and see what they say.

Is there anyway you could arrange for another member of staff to cover your shift on their day off.
i.e. you take of the 27th, they take of the 28th but actually come in to cover for you not being there, you then owe them a days cover.

If the staff member covering takes the 28th off, they’d be working the 27th anyway?

Michelleb355 · 25-09-2019 3:28pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Seems strange the manager gets so much off, worth going to hr anyway and see what they say.

Is there anyway you could arrange for another member of staff to cover your shift on their day off.
i.e. you take of the 27th, they take of the 28th but actually come in to cover for you not being there, you then owe them a days cover.

.

He only takes 2 and a half weeks during the year and keeps the rest for Christmas.

I thought of asking someone to cover but my manager also said no to this. He wants everyone’s hours to be on the roster ðŸ˜©

mooreman09 · 25-09-2019 3:28pm

Michelleb355 wrote: »

Hi.

I have a bit of a work situation I need advice with. My sister is getting married just after Christmas, I work in retail so just have the 25th off and then back to work. The manager has holidays from the 24th to early January every year and it’s company policy that no other member of staff can book more than one day off during that time. Under the circumstances (I’m also maid of honor ) I went to my manger to explain the situation and he told me there’s nothing to be done only take the day of the wedding off and be back in work the following morning. The wedding is in London so this is going to be next to impossible. He also told me I can go to HR but will more than likely be told the same thing. I’m working with the company 12 years and I don’t want to leave. Has anyone any advice?

I hate hearing rubbish like this OP. Its extremely unfair on you. Dispensation should be granted here out of pure common sense.

Sounds like a poor manager if they can't sort this for you. Hope HR resolve it.

Michelleb355 · 25-09-2019 3:32pm

mooreman09 wrote: »

I hate hearing rubbish like this OP. Its extremely unfair on you. Dispensation should be granted here out of pure common sense.

Sounds like a poor manager if they can't sort this for you. Hope HR resolve it.

That’s exactly what I thought. It’s a family wedding so I thought they would make an exception but apparently not.

loyatemu · 25-09-2019 3:40pm

after 12 years? might be time to move on if that's how little they care.

Michelleb355 · 25-09-2019 3:43pm

loyatemu wrote: »

after 12 years? might be time to move on if that's how little they care.

Ok so I’m getting the impression from these responses that I’m not being overly demanding? Because to be honest in the beginning I wasn’t sure. Also asking for 3 days off. Saturday to fly over, Sunday for the wedding and Monday to fly home. I’d be back in work on the Tuesday. Not ideal but I knew all along I couldn’t take more than 3 days not never thought it would be an issue taking 3

odyssey06 · 25-09-2019 3:44pm

Is there anything to be said for just not turning up? And if they say anything say your flight was delayed.
If HR make an issue of it then there's a whole can of worms there about what the manager is up to.

Be prepared to walk away \ take a slap on the wrists if it comes to that.

After 12 years & the amount of notice you are giving, you are being treated very shabbily.

Michelleb355 · 25-09-2019 3:46pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for just not turning up? And if they say anything say your flight was delayed.
If HR make an issue of it then there's a whole can of worms there about what the manager is up to.

Ya iv thought about doing that and might have to. The manager could easily come to work for 2 days and add those 2 back to the end of his holiday but he is refusing

Batgurl · 25-09-2019 3:47pm

Why are you asking?

You are giving enough notice. Just inform them that you won’t be available on dates x, y and z. Then it’s down to them to sort.

You sound like you are being way too nice.

Michelleb355 · 25-09-2019 3:50pm

Batgurl wrote: »

Why are you asking?

You are giving enough notice. Just inform them that you won’t be available on dates x, y and z. Then it’s down to them to sort.

You sound like you are being way too nice.

That’s what I done and the manager said no you have to work on 2 of the days I requested off. And when I explained the situation he showed me the company policy book which states when the manger is on annual leave member of staff can request more than one day off at a time. I don’t think this has ever happened on the company before

25-09-2019 3:51pm

Batgurl wrote: »

Why are you asking?

You are giving enough notice. Just inform them that you won’t be available on dates x, y and z. Then it’s down to them to sort.

You sound like you are being way too nice.

Because while leave is obliged the employer gets to decide when.

If the OP stays 12 years the employer must be OK, no?

Michelleb355 · 25-09-2019 3:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because while leave is obliged the employer gets to decide when.

If the OP stays 12 years the employer must be OK, no?

Never had a problem with them until now

SusieBlue · 25-09-2019 3:53pm

Its not uncommon for this to be the standard in retail & hospitality industry over the festive period, unfortunately.

I would write a clear, concise email, to HR to plead you case.
Highlight your 12 years of dedicated service, and explain your extenuating circumstances for your request.
Say that you understand policy etc. but you're hoping they can make a one off exception in your case.
Include proof, such as a picture of the invitation/screenshot of flights etc. so that they know your reasons are legitimate and that you aren't making up a sob story to go on the piss with your friends or something.
Have you worked Xmas Eve/New Years Eve/Day over the last few years? If so definitely mention that too, so that they can see you have been flexible and accommodating in the past.
Copy in your manager and anyone else in a position of authority over you. Say you are available to meet in person at their discretion to discuss any concerns or issues they may have.

Don't do it in person or over phone, you want a paper trail here. Also, if its via email, they are obliged to hear you out and actually read your request. I found that if I made requests like yours in person, I'd be cut off & interrupted and simply told no.

Fingers crossed they will grant your leave and you will be able to go, but if not, you should hand in your notice without question.

Salary Negotiator · 25-09-2019 3:55pm

Michelleb355 wrote: »

Ok so I’m getting the impression from these responses that I’m not being overly demanding? Because to be honest in the beginning I wasn’t sure. Also asking for 3 days off. Saturday to fly over, Sunday for the wedding and Monday to fly home. I’d be back in work on the Tuesday. Not ideal but I knew all along I couldn’t take more than 3 days not never thought it would be an issue taking 3

I worked and managed in retail for a number of years and if you came to me with this request then I’d do whatever I had to to make it happen.

Its completely unreasonable of him not to at least look into how to accommodate your request. I’d try and have a word with whoever is next in line above your manager, might even be worth mentioning that you’re goin to do this.

paulpd · 25-09-2019 3:58pm

"which states when the manger is on annual leave member of staff can request more than one day off at a time".

Is there a difference between one person off for 3 days and three different people off for a day each? If others aren't taking leave then there shouldn't be an issue.

After 12 years you should have some sort of "clout" / seniority. And with the notice period you're giving, they are being very unfair.

Batgurl · 25-09-2019 4:00pm

Just politely reiterate you aren’t available on those dates.

It’s their problem, not yours.

Any company who fires you under these circumstances is leaving themselves wide open for constructive dismissal.

SusieBlue · 25-09-2019 4:03pm

Batgurl wrote: »

Just politely reiterate you aren’t available on those dates.

It’s their problem, not yours.

Any company who fires you under these circumstances is leaving themselves wide open for constructive dismissal.

I don't mean this in a condescending way, but it doesn't work like that in retail or hospitality. If she does that she'll be out of a job.
Her annual leave is at the discretion of the employer. She can't just not show up after being told no, and expect no consequences.

Purple Mountain · 25-09-2019 4:04pm

^^ That's very poor advice.
The manager in a company has the sign off on all annual leave.
If they didn't then, any employee could just demand their leave any time they wanted.
I agree that this lady is being treated piss poor here but still, the advice you give isn't correct or advisable.

False Prophet · 25-09-2019 4:04pm

Batgurl wrote: »

Just politely reiterate you aren’t available on those dates.

It’s their problem, not yours.

Any company who fires you under these circumstances is leaving themselves wide open for constructive dismissal.

It doesnt work like that. You cant just decide when you want to work. Otherwise what stops the rest of workers politely asking for same days off?

TheShow · 25-09-2019 4:05pm

Batgurl wrote: »

Just politely reiterate you aren’t available on those dates.

It’s their problem, not yours.

Any company who fires you under these circumstances is leaving themselves wide open for constructive dismissal.

Absolutely,
advise HR in writing that you are not available to work on the days outlined for the reasons as stated.
You've given them plenty of notice.

cruizer101 · 25-09-2019 4:06pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

If the staff member covering takes the 28th off, they’d be working the 27th anyway?

Yeah it means they are losing out on their day off, which you will owe them back
They would be doing you a favour by doing it so you may have trouble getting someone to agree to it but it may be only option.
I'd be getting them a present if they did agree.

it is quite unreasonable for them to not agree to it tbh.

On the taking 3 could you work early on the saturday and fly out that evening.

SusieBlue · 25-09-2019 4:09pm

TheShow wrote: »

Absolutely,
advise HR in writing that you are not available to work on the days outlined for the reasons as stated.
You've given them plenty of notice.

That's not how it works.
Annual leave is at the discretion of her employer.

That might work in a big multinational but it won't work in a supermarket or restaurant etc., where they can have someone hired to replace you within a few hours.
And I say that to cause no offense to the OP, its just the reality of it.
I worked in the industry myself for many years and that was how it was.
If you were a troublemaker you were easily replaced, if it came down to it.

25-09-2019 4:14pm

False Prophet wrote: »

It doesnt work like that. You cant just decide when you want to work. Otherwise what stops the rest of workers politely asking for same days off?

There is a trade off.
The OP can ask, the company can say no.
The OP can say they won't be working, the company can? Discipline them, fire them, say nothing, grumble but do nothing.
There are lots of options.

How big is this company OP?
Is it a busy period?

Are there other branches and is it the same there?

the boss of me · 25-09-2019 4:21pm

Just pop down to your doctor and get a cert... There's plenty of illness's that would allow you attend a wedding but render you incapable of working.
You probably won't get paid so take that into account.

25-09-2019 4:22pm

More often than not I see things from the side of the employer.

However, in this case I'd not be happy to be treated that way.

And, especially in the current climate, no company will want to lose 12 years experience.

OP, I'd contact HR and go over their heads to senior management/owners if necessary. Does anyone seriously think any of them would miss their sister's wedding. Madness.

SusieBlue · 25-09-2019 4:26pm

the boss of me wrote: »

Just pop down to your doctor and get a cert... There's plenty of illness's that would allow you attend a wedding but render you incapable of working.
You probably won't get paid so take that into account.

Sick Certs explain absences but don't excuse them. She could still be heavily disciplined or even fired with a sick cert.

Batgurl · 25-09-2019 4:29pm

I’ve worked in retail, hospitality, HR and lots of other careers in between. With all due respect to those saying “it’s not how it works”, that may be your experience but mine is that if you are honest and firm in any job, then you won’t get shat on.

The company doesn’t have a blanket “no leave” policy because the manager is off. So the company are giving that staff member preferential treatment over all other staff. It’s a discrimination case waiting to happen.

rsl1976 · 25-09-2019 4:31pm

Is it not also unfair that the manager gets to take those days every year and no one else can be off?

I would definitely be going to HR

SusieBlue · 25-09-2019 4:34pm

Batgurl wrote: »

I’ve worked in retail, hospitality, HR and lots of other careers in between. With all due respect to those saying “it’s not how it works”, that may be your experience but mine is that if you are honest and firm in any job, then you won’t get shat on.

The company doesn’t have a blanket “no leave” policy because the manager is off. So the company are giving that staff member preferential treatment over all other staff. It’s a discrimination case waiting to happen.

But she isn't a manager.
Its very common for companies to have policies that restrict the leave of the sales assistants/waiters/bar staff (aka frontline staff) during busy periods, but are more lenient with senior management.
That isn't discrimination because her manager doesn't have the same role/job as she does.

Most of the bars I worked in had similar policies. One had a total blanket ban for annual leave for any member of staff who wasn't a manager for the whole month of December.

Days off

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