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Islam is right about Women

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    #62
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,998 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    Why speak of Islam as a singular entity? Surely there’s a whole spectrum of attitude to women in Islam, just as there is in Christianity or Judaism? All three have fundamentalists in one side who suppress women’s voices and activity, and reformers on the other who do the opposite, no?


    Exactly my thoughts.

    If you put up posters saying "The Catholic Church is right about women", it would have much the same effect.


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    #63
    JohnMc1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Stark wrote: »
    Exactly my thoughts.

    If you put up posters saying "The Catholic Church is right about women", it would have much the same effect.

    The Catholic Church's view on Women and Islam's view are as different as night in day. Mary is held in as high of regard and importance as God and Jesus are. Plus look at all the Women that have been made Saints would show you that. To say that Catholicism and Islam have the same views reeks of agenda pushing or willful ignorance.


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    #64
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    The Catholic Church's view on Women and Islam's view are as different as night in day. Mary is held in as high of regard and importance as God and Jesus are. Plus look at all the Women that have been made Saints would show you that. To say that Catholicism and Islam have the same views reeks of agenda pushing or willful ignorance.

    Eh...I'm not sure you are allowed to state the bleeding obvious these days, I'm pretty sure that is offensive!


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    #65
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Eh...I'm not sure you are allowed to state the bleeding obvious these days, I'm pretty sure that is offensive!




    if the poster is white, straight and male I have no doubt he is being offensive to someone :D


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    #66
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    JohnMc1 wrote: »
    The Catholic Church's view on Women and Islam's view are as different as night in day. Mary is held in as high of regard and importance as God and Jesus are. Plus look at all the Women that have been made Saints would show you that. To say that Catholicism and Islam have the same views reeks of agenda pushing or willful ignorance.

    its their favuorite crack of whataboutery , "the catholic church did bad things decades ago and now the world has rightly exposed them and are calling them out and punishing them for it , so that makes it ok for islam to do those things without complaint in the present and going forward without a hint of change on the horizon"


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    #67
    HailSatan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭HailSatan


    Something something yummy food diversity


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    #68
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    HailSatan wrote: »
    Something something yummy food diversity

    wheb the most positive thing you can say about a group of people coming into your country is they make nice kebabs, well then youre not doing well...


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    #69
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    But do the left really support Islam in the same way they support feminism? That’s just a right wing misconception, isn’t it? Claiming Liberals are Islamists because they don’t support active discrimination against Muslims. Right wingers often get carried away with their own hyperbole. The whole thing seems to be based on a false premise, which coupled with the appalling lack of graphic design in the poster, makes it all a bit sad.
    Strawman!

    Come on! In 2004 Ayaan Hirsi Ali scripted a movie with Theo Van Gogh entitled "Submission".
    The film deals with the oppression of women in many Muslim countries. Van Gogh was killed by a fanatic in 2004 because of the film.

    You'd think this would make Ayaan Hirsi a feminist hero? A darling of the left? No of course not, Islam takes precedent over feminism.
    When she was trying to raise awareness for feminism, her 'crime' of speaking out against Islam was far worse.

    It seems like these flyers are designed to bring about cognitive dissonance in their viewers. I for one am in support of them. We need to think about these issues seriously.


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    #70
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    I think we'd all be a bit more comfortable, if we could refer to it as a flyer.
    Hand out even?


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    #71
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Stark wrote: »
    If you put up posters saying "The Catholic Church is right about women", it would have much the same effect.

    No! it would not. You need to rethink your example and not insert any religion in which you think fits for effect. People can have their personal issues with religion but to equate Catholicism with Islam when it comes to the treatment of women is disingenuous and shows a lack of intelligence on the matter. How women are treated in Catholicism pales in comparison to how women are treated in the Islamic faith.

    I would like examples of women who are/have been mistreated in the Catholic faith and culture today compared to the many issues presented in the Islamic culture.


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    #72
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    1800_Ladladlad wrote: »
    No! it would not. You need to rethink your example and not insert any religion in which you think fits for effect. People can have their personal issues with religion but to equate Catholicism with Islam when it comes to the treatment of women is disingenuous and shows a lack of intelligence on the matter. How women are treated in Catholicism pales in comparison to how women are treated in the Islamic faith.

    I would like examples of women who are/have been mistreated in the Catholic faith and culture today compared to the many issues presented in the Islamic culture.

    Magdalene laundries?


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    #73
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    1800_Ladladlad wrote: »
    No! it would not. You need to rethink your example and not insert any religion in which you think fits for effect. People can have their personal issues with religion but to equate Catholicism with Islam when it comes to the treatment of women is disingenuous and shows a lack of intelligence on the matter. How women are treated in Catholicism pales in comparison to how women are treated in the Islamic faith.

    I would like examples of women who are/have been mistreated in the Catholic faith and culture today compared to the many issues presented in the Islamic culture.
    ..
    Islam is part religion, and part a political-military doctrine, the part that is a political doctrine contains a world view, a system of laws and a moral code that is totally incompatible with our constitution, our laws, and our way of life-Ayaan Hirsi Ali.


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    #74
    HailSatan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭HailSatan


    FGM empowers women you bigots


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    #75
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 9,032 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Veritas Libertas wrote: »
    Islam is part religion, and part a political-military doctrine, the part that is a political doctrine contains a world view, a system of laws and a moral code that is totally incompatible with our constitution, our laws, and our way of life.

    Wait, are you Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Or are you just passing off her words (verbatim) as your own?


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    #76
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Magdalene laundries?

    he said "Today" you missed the key word there

    catholic church abuses - in the past
    islamic abuses - the past, the present and no sign of stopping


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    #77
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    Wait, are you Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Or are you just passing off her words (verbatim) as your own?

    I didn't mean to make this mistake, but I certainly agree with her.


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    #78
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,592 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    he said "Today" you missed the key word there

    catholic church abuses - in the past
    islamic abuses - the past, the present and no sign of stopping

    "That happened 20 years ago so it doesn't count" :rolleyes:


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    #79
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    Why speak of Islam as a singular entity? Surely there’s a whole spectrum of attitude to women in Islam, just as there is in Christianity or Judaism? All three have fundamentalists in one side who suppress women’s voices and activity, and reformers on the other who do the opposite, no?
    well i suppose the followers of Islam are the only one of the three that sees support from modern feminist voices. A recent report had persecution of Christians at "near genocide levels" globally but Islamophobia is the one that really gets the lime light for a set of complex reasons.


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    #80
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    "That happened 20 years ago so it doesn't count" :rolleyes:

    exactly, Ireland is a very different place now, and even what youre talking about is the LAST laundry closing, we've been on track since the 70's to loosen the churches grip on our state and we're all but clear of it now.

    Islam is growing in its influence in politics, shows no sign of loosening its grip and hasn't stopped its atrocities against women.


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    #81
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 9,032 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    well i suppose the followers of Islam are the only one of the three that sees support from modern feminist voices. A recent report had persecution of Christians at "near genocide levels" globally but Islamophobia is the one that really gets the lime light for a set of complex reasons.

    I have to say, I’m not convinced of the idea that the left/feminism are “supporting” Islam - which again harks back to my comment on hyperbole. Is it simply the case that the right are interpreting a (perceived or otherwise) lack of active criticism of Islam as active support? Maybe you could show me an example of this support they give it?


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    #82
    HailSatan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭HailSatan


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    I have to say, I’m not convinced of the idea that the left/feminism are “supporting” Islam - which again harks back to my comment on hyperbole. Is it simply the case that the right are interpreting a (perceived or otherwise) lack of active criticism of Islam as active support? Maybe you could show me an example of this support they give it?

    Are you saying Islam ISN'T right about women?


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    #83
    Veritas Libertas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Veritas Libertas


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    I have to say, I’m not convinced of the idea that the left/feminism are “supporting” Islam - which again harks back to my comment on hyperbole. Is it simply the case that the right are interpreting a (perceived or otherwise) lack of active criticism of Islam as active support?
    I'm not on the right, just very anti-religion.
    For me the whole Charlie Hebdo affair was telling in this respect. It was the first time I really sat up and took notice, when I saw otherwise liberal, progressive people suppress a cartoon for fear of offending people.

    In fact, immediately after the shooting, the charge from many liberals was 'how could they print such inflammatory cartoons'.

    I remember being incensed at some of the coverage surrounding it; here is an example:



    Full of "It's ok, but...."


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    #84
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    I have to say, I’m not convinced of the idea that the left/feminism are “supporting” Islam - which again harks back to my comment on hyperbole. Is it simply the case that the right are interpreting a (perceived or otherwise) lack of active criticism of Islam as active support? Maybe you could show me an example of this support they give it?
    yes maybe thats it. despite Islam's cartoon villain levels of suppression of women, there is a deafening silence. Instead aim is taken at the societies and systems which afford western women historically unpresendented opportunities and freedoms those living in Islamic societies could only dream of. Why was Linda Sarsour at the head of the Womens March and not someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali? there are weird contradictions at play.


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    #85
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 9,032 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Veritas Libertas wrote: »
    I'm not on the right, just very anti-religion.
    For me the whole Charlie Hebdo affair was telling in this respect. [...]

    I get you. I’m a devout atheist myself. Not necessarily anti-religion, but certainly not in agreement with it. I do however think that there’s a lot more diversity in Islamic belief and practice than is generally recognised, which is why I’m uncomfortable with blanket criticisms of it of this nature. I would certainly be very critical of the likes of Saudi Arabia and the other gulf states, however. Particularly in relation to their treatment of women and foreign workers.

    I do remember around the time of the horrific Charlie Hebdo attacks, my strictly Catholic mother in law (and no, she’s certainly not a feminist) claimed that the victims were basically asking for it by provoking Islamic fundamentalists with their “blasphemous” cartoons. I asked her did she eat beef. Of course she did. Then pointed out to her that to some Hindu fundamentalists in India, such a blasphemy would be equally worthy of death. Of course, she didn’t see the parallels between the two, because in her eyes Islam is a monotheistic religion that just got things a bit wrong, while Hinduism is just straight up heathenism, and therefore worthy of no respect at all.


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    #86
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    Are you automatically far-right if you want to wind up leftists?


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    #87
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Magdalene laundries?

    Controlled by women.


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    #88
    Tusky
    Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Worth pointing out that The Times/Sunday Times is free to sign up to for first month, and €5 a month after that.


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    #89
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 9,032 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    HailSatan wrote: »
    Are you saying Islam ISN'T right about women?

    I’m saying that it doesn’t make sense to claim that all Islam has one unified view of women, when there’s so many different and often opposing thoughts an teachings within the billion or so people involved. I certainly don’t think Saudi Arabia is right about women. But Saudi Arabia isn’t the end all and be all of Islam.

    It’s also clear that this stunt is just an attempted provocation and not in any way concerned with the rights of women, which I think most reasonable people (left or right) would see as pathetic. I don’t regard trolling as a political position worth giving any legitimacy to.


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    #90
    ub52
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18 ✭ub52


    Such a simple statement has got the progressives knickers in a twist.
    The progressive folk are no doubt feminists
    These same progressive folk are the ones pushing for immigration from the Islamic world into the west
    Now as we all know women don't have it half as good in the Islamic world as they do in the terrible evil white christian west.
    Whats a progressive to do?
    What are they actually progressing towards?
    "Islam is right about Women", a riddle wrapped in a enigma that has bamboozled progressives.


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    #91
    HailSatan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭HailSatan


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    I have to say, I’m not convinced of the idea that the left/feminism are “supporting” Islam - which again harks back to my comment on hyperbole. Is it simply the case that the right are interpreting a (perceived or otherwise) lack of active criticism of Islam as active support? Maybe you could show me an example of this support they give it?

    Are you saying Islam ISN'T right about women?


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