New inquests into stardust deaths

Foggy Jew

New inquests to be held for 1981 Stardust fire victims


- Sorry can’t post link. But this is going to be a massive undertaking. Where will it be held? Will there be a jury? What coroner will preside? Will the bereaved families get any further answers?

Genuine question,
What do they hope to achieve with the new inquiry?

gifted

BrownFinger wrote: »

Genuine question,
What do they hope to achieve with the new inquiry?

I'm open to correction here but I think no one was ever charged for any part they had in the killing of the people, the doors were all chained, way too many people allowed in, probably a lot more as well.....inquiry should hopefully identify the people who made these decisions.....

tdf7187

BrownFinger wrote: »

Genuine question,
What do they hope to achieve with the new inquiry?

The further enrichment of the corrupt and debased legal profession.

gifted

gifted wrote: »

I'm open to correction here but I think no one was ever charged for any part they had in the killing of the people, the doors were all chained, way too many people allowed in, probably a lot more as well.....inquiry should hopefully identify the people who made these decisions.....

They aren't war criminals or former high-up Nazis. It was 38 years ago.

AndyBoBandy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They aren't war criminals or former high-up Nazis. It was 38 years ago.

He is still responsible for the deaths though, or should it all just be forgotten about because it was 38 years ago?

Move along, nothing to see here...

AndyBoBandy

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

He is still responsible for the deaths though, or should it all just be forgotten about because it was 38 years ago?

Move along, nothing to see here...

After 38 years, I'd be of the opinion that the only charges worth pursuing are war crimes and murders.

What would you like to see happen at the end of this?

SEPT 23 1989

I presume all the main players are dead so now the state will allow this happen

mickdw

The families are entitled to this.
Too much covered up around this all the years.

whisky_galore

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I presume all the main players are dead so now the state will allow this happen

Same family owns the premises, now rebuilt, only the facade from the time is left but you'd have to be some dope to even think of doing this:

In 2006 the leaseholder and manager of the Stardust at the time of the fire, Eamon Butterly, planned to re-open licensed premises on the site of the Stardust on the 25th anniversary.

They got compensation because of an arson finding, £580,000, Can't have gone down too well with families and victims, can't blame them tbh.

weldoninhio

BrownFinger wrote: »

Genuine question,
What do they hope to achieve with the new inquiry?

I was thinking the same. It's like no matter what they are told they cannot accept it. They are so invested in protesting it that they can't give it up.

smelly sock

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

He is still responsible for the deaths though, or should it all just be forgotten about because it was 38 years ago?

Move along, nothing to see here...

It really depends on what the law and regs of the day were in relation to fire exits etc.

RIP to all who passed. Nobody meant for this to happen though.

smelly sock

whisky_galore wrote: »

Same family owns the premises, now rebuilt, only the facade from the time is left but you'd have to be some dope to even think of doing this:

In 2006 the leaseholder and manager of the Stardust at the time of the fire, Eamon Butterly, planned to re-open licensed premises on the site of the Stardust on the 25th anniversary.

They got compensation because of an arson finding, £580,000, Can't have gone down too well with families and victims, can't blame them tbh.

Thats scummy trying to reopen it.

weldoninhio

smelly sock wrote: »

It really depends on what the law and regs of the day were in relation to fire exits etc.

RIP to all who passed. Nobody meant for this to happen though.

I did a fire safety course a few weeks ago for work. The Fire laws in Ireland were changed immediately after the Stardust. Apparently, according to the tutor, it was, and still is, the fastest drafted legislation in the history of the state.

PhilOssophy

A bit like Hillsborough, if your child had died you might view time as not being a healer.
If this had happened in Club Anabel, just like if Hillsborough had happened at Twickenham, there would have been an investigation straight away.
But because it was in a working class part of Dublin, the political elite did not care.

Seth Brundle

Deleted User wrote: »

After 38 years, I'd be of the opinion that the only charges worth pursuing are war crimes and murders.

What would you like to see happen at the end of this?

The families would like answers as to why their loved ones died so needlessly!
The original inquiry is regarded as a whitewash. The only person who was punished in relation to the Stardust was an upset parent. Speculation was rife over political links to the owners.
There's loads of questions and to date successive governments have fobbed off the families.

weldoninhio wrote: »

I was thinking the same. It's like no matter what they are told they cannot accept it. They are so invested in protesting it that they can't give it up.

That's such a stupid comment in fairness. At what point should someone say "right feck it, I shouldn't bother getting the truth now"

smelly sock wrote: »

Thats scummy trying to reopen it.

WTF?

smelly sock

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The families would like answers as to why their loved ones died so needlessly!
The original inquiry is regarded as a whitewash. The only person who was punished in relation to the Stardust was an upset parent. Speculation was rife over political links to the owners.
There's loads of questions and to date successive governments have fobbed off the families.


That's such a stupid comment in fairness. At what point should someone say "right feck it, I shouldn't bother getting the truth now"

WTF?

Reopen the premises on the 25th anniversary.

Seth Brundle

smelly sock wrote: »

Reopen the premises on the 25th anniversary.

Yeah - misread your post and had it in my head that it was scummy to reopen the inquiry!
You're right - it was scummy!

anewme

Sometimes things stick with you. I was very young but remember well the news breaking on the Saturday morning that so many young people had died. Some of my friends older brothers and sisters would go to the Stardust, and thankfully none were there that night.

The photos in the Evening Herald showed the Padlocked Fire Escapes, the melting ceilings- they did not stand a chance to get out. I think of them every valentines day and their families, who never saw their children marry, have their own children, live their lives.

Those families have campaigned tirelessly to get justice for their loved ones, who died needlessly, because of greed and negligence. Some family members have gone to the grave never seeing anyone held accountable what happened that night.

To those asking what they hope to achieve - justice for their loved ones, acknowledgement and accountability. If it were my family, I would pursue it to the last as well.

I wish them well and trust that there is now enough integrity in the system so there is not another "whitewash" like the last one. I sincerely hope they get the peace they deserve.

D13exile

My 18 year old cousin died in that fire. I remember the shock amongst my family as word got round about the fire and that she didn't come home that night. Everyone was crowded around the phone trying to get news, phoning hospitals, getting nowhere and then having to physically visit every hospital to try to see if she was amongst the injured. Finally, my Uncle went to the morgue and found her there. She wasn't burned like many but she died from inhaling toxic gases. She was found beside one of the chained exits. Her boyfriend had lost her in the panic to get out and even though he did get out, he went back in to try to find her and ended up getting badly burned after escaping unscathed the first time. Another Uncle of mine was a fireman on duty that night and he later told stories of hearing victims screaming for rescue inside toilets with iron bars over the windows, only for the screams to stop as they died. For anyone living within a few miles of the Stardust, it left a permanent mark on us, particularly for those of us who lost someone. Anytime I pass the place, I get a chill when I remember my beautiful cousin who died on what should have been a fun night out. She was one of 48 who died and many others were left badly scarred, physically and emotionally.

Someone was to blame. Someone let far too many kids into an unsafe building. Someone started the fire. Someone locked the fire exits. Why shouldn't there be full disclosure of what happened? Why shouldn't the families finally get answers? My cousin's father has since passed away not knowing why his daughter died. Shouldn't the families get some peace?

And to the keyboard trolls who dismiss this new enquiry, just once can you think before you spew your uninformed bile out to the internet?

is_that_so

PhilOssophy wrote: »

A bit like Hillsborough, if your child had died you might view time as not being a healer.
If this had happened in Club Anabel, just like if Hillsborough had happened at Twickenham, there would have been an investigation straight away.
But because it was in a working class part of Dublin, the political elite did not care.

There was an investigation but it focused a lot more on the likely initial cause of arson and it attributed no blame.

beertons

My dad just said to me there, that he always thought it was odd that they had carpet on the walls.

is_that_so

D13exile wrote: »

My 18 year old cousin died in that fire. I remember the shock amongst my family as word got round about the fire and that she didn't come home that night. Everyone was crowded around the phone trying to get news, phoning hospitals, getting nowhere and then having to physically visit every hospital to try to see if she was amongst the injured. Finally, my Uncle went to the morgue and found her there. She wasn't burned like many but she died from inhaling toxic gases. She was found beside one of the chained exits. Her boyfriend had lost her in the panic to get out and even though he did get out, he went back in to try to find her and ended up getting badly burned after escaping unscathed the first time. Another Uncle of mine was a fireman on duty that night and he later told stories of hearing victims screaming for rescue inside toilets with iron bars over the windows, only for the screams to stop as they died. For anyone living within a few miles of the Stardust, it left a permanent mark on us, particularly for those of us who lost someone. Anytime I pass the place, I get a chill when I remember my beautiful cousin who died on what should have been a fun night out. She was one of 48 who died and many others were left badly scarred, physically and emotionally.

Someone was to blame. Someone let far too many kids into an unsafe building. Someone started the fire. Someone locked the fire exits. Why shouldn't there be full disclosure of what happened? Why shouldn't the families finally get answers? My cousin's father has since passed away not knowing why his daughter died. Shouldn't the families get some peace?

And to the keyboard trolls who dismiss this new enquiry, just once can you think before you spew your uninformed bile out to the internet?

There are questions and for long time the blame was on where the fire started and who might have done so. Some of that is already known. While it may be closure of a form for families it is not wrong nor trolling to wonder what the purpose of this inquest is. I'm curious as to what outcome it might reach.

D13exile

is_that_so wrote: »

There are questions and for long time the blame was on where the fire started and who might have done so. Some of that is already known. While it may be closure of a form for families it is not wrong nor trolling to wonder what the purpose of this inquest is. I'm curious as to what outcome it might reach.

What outcome? Let me see......
48 young people died.

Over 200 were injured.

No one was ever held accountable.

The Butterlys (owners of the Stardust) received over €730,000 in compensation from Dublin Corporation while the families of the dead and injured received nothing.

How about finding who was criminally responsible for locking fire exits?
How about finding out why the Butterlys, owners of the Stardust, get compensation from the state for their building that was the scene of the greatest loss of life from a fire in this country?

Smacks to me and a huge majority of people living near the Stardust that there was a cover up and the wealthy elite were protected and compensated by their powerful friends. What would you say? There's no proof of that? Probably why a proper enquiry was stalled for so long, so witnesses die, evidence is lost and people get away with what is nothing short of mass murder/manslaughter through gross negligence.

weldoninhio

beertons wrote: »

My dad just said to me there, that he always thought it was odd that they had carpet on the walls.

Soundproofing??

weldoninhio

D13exile wrote: »

What outcome? Let me see......
48 young people died.

Over 200 were injured.

No one was ever held accountable.

The Butterlys (owners of the Stardust) received over €730,000 in compensation from Dublin Corporation while the families of the dead and injured received nothing.

How about finding who was criminally responsible for locking fire exits?
How about finding out why the Butterlys, owners of the Stardust, get compensation from the state for their building that was the scene of the greatest loss of life from a fire in this country?

Smacks to me and a huge majority of people living near the Stardust that there was a cover up and the wealthy elite were protected and compensated by their powerful friends. What would you say? There's no proof of that? Probably why a proper enquiry was stalled for so long, so witnesses die, evidence is lost and people get away with what is nothing short of mass murder/manslaughter through gross negligence.

Was it a criminal offence to lock fire doors pre 1981 Fire Services Act? I can't find any other act that covers this pre-81, although I am only googling.

Edit: I realise it was a horrible thing to do, but was it illegal.

Villan11

Just a point of information, and not specific to this matter:
Inquests in Ireland are, by law, strictly precluded of considering or apportioning blame. The purpose of an inquest is to establish facts surrounding the circumstances of such events. An inquest cannot say that someone is to blame, or that someone is not to blame, it is a neutral hearing.

gifted

weldoninhio wrote: »

Was it a criminal offence to lock fire doors pre 1981 Fire Services Act? I can't find any other act that covers this pre-81, although I am only googling.

Hence the reason for an inquiry, to find out the answers .....

weldoninhio

gifted wrote: »

Hence the reason for an inquiry, to find out the answers .....

Why the need for an enquiry? Surely we have copies of the statute book pre-81. It either was against the law, or wasn't. A judge could easily just look it up.

mickdw

Villan11 wrote: »

Just a point of information, and not specific to this matter:
Inquests in Ireland are, by law, strictly precluded of considering or apportioning blame. The purpose of an inquest is to establish facts surrounding the circumstances of such events. An inquest cannot say that someone is to blame, or that someone is not to blame, it is a neutral hearing.

Yes but to get the true facts of the disaster officially recorded will be a huge step for the families.

gifted

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why the need for an enquiry? Surely we have copies of the statute book pre-81. It either was against the law, or wasn't. A judge could easily just look it up.

Inquiry will look at everything ...not just your specific request.