New inquests into stardust deaths

MrMusician18

mikeym wrote: »

The families of those who died in the Hillsborough tragedy got justice.

The families of the Stardust fire have being fobbed off all these years and deserve justice.

Watch the videos on youtube if you want to educate yourselves because they died a horrible death

I don't think anyone is arguing that the families don't deserve justice. They absolutely do. That notwithstanding, the passage of time and the lack of physical evidence available now would only allow any inquiry or inquest to come to the vaguest conclusions if any at all. This is why it's been resisted by governments of many colours for so long - particularly the ones of the last 10-15 years. This is effectively what the AG said in 2008, when the official report was amended to state that there was it was inconclusive as to how the fire started and reference to likely arson removed.

I feel if the inquiry goes ahead now the inevitable inconclusions will mean the families will not get the closure and justice they deserve.

Justice delayed is justice denied, this should have been dealt with properly years ago. The way the victims and their families were treated at the time was disgraceful.

blanch152

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Some of us were actually there as well. Hard as it may be for some who think it was so long ago to believe.

Some of us might have been there, but were elsewhere that night.

I still remember the shock of hearing about it.

walshb

gifted wrote: »

I'm open to correction here but I think no one was ever charged for any part they had in the killing of the people, the doors were all chained, way too many people allowed in, probably a lot more as well.....inquiry should hopefully identify the people who made these decisions.....

I can’t really see how after 40 years that these questions will be answered in any way with confidence and certainty..

Seth Brundle

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People used to always try and sneak into the Grove in Clontarf by the way, a rather affluent area.

raheny not clontarf but yeah people did try to sneak in. I never did of course but usually because I was too pissed to climb walls. and eric has never hid his disdain for poor people.

The Grove first started out in Clontarf's Belgrove Football Club

Thelonious Monk

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The Grove first started out in Clontarf's Belgrove Football Club

Plus St Paul's is on the border, about 20 paces from Clontarf really

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Some of us were actually there as well. Hard as it may be for some who think it was so long ago to believe.

What is the story re the exits, were they locked? The report says some appeared locked due to chaine being wrapped around them but weren't and opened when pushed on if I am reading it right?

Seth Brundle

I think some of the emergency doors were locked with locks and chains. Others had cars right up to them in order to prevent them being opened and people sneaking in.
The toilets had bars on the windows for the same reason.

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

Glass fused light wrote: »

Try be curious enought to put yourself in the place of a family member:

You and your 3 mates are at your house about to head out for the night.
Shout in to your Mam and Dad that your off going out the door.
Meet your sister on the doorstep and say you will see her later when she and her friends head out too.

Its dark the music is playing and your having a great time and the smell if cigarette smoke changes, people start to shout that there is a fire so you and your friends head for the nearest fire exit

When you get there you realise the exit is not opening its been chained closed
Now use your imagination as to how you get out or do you get out without harm? How about your 3 mates or your sister and her friend?

You are lucky and get out you have minor injuries and can only stand and watch the place burn to the ground knowing that there are still people inside.
You still have not found your sister or your mates.
How did your Mam and Dad find out your alive
What happened after that in the morning during the day and in the weeks that follow.

Nearly 40 years later all you have are the photos and the memories.
You got lucky and don't carry any burn scars

The one thing you don't have is a copy of the witness statement you gave about what happened that night. And it not because you refused to give a statement it's because the State had not taken a statement.

Now what do you think should be the first purpose of the inquest?

The report says statements were taken

VI —EVIDENCE

"In the weeks immediately after the fire, over one thousand six hundred statements were taken by the Garda Siochana from persons present in the building on the night of the fire (including patrons, representatives of the owners, and staff), members of the rescue services such as the fire brigade, residents in the neighbourhood and others who witnessedvarious aspects of the disaster, those concerned with the conversion of the building,whether as designers, suppliers of materials, local authority officials or otherwise, and many others"

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I think some of the emergency doors were locked with locks and chains. Others had cars right up to them in order to prevent them being opened and people sneaking in.
The toilets had bars on the windows for the same reason.

I saw that re the toilet windows and some doors but the report give many statements of people who were able to exit through seemingly locked doors. As far as I can understand, I may be wrong, some had chains to appear locked, but weren't locked. Of course none should have been locked.I am just trying to get it straight. I read They Never Came Home but it's along time ago

Seth Brundle

I think one emergency door might have appeared to be locked with a chain wrapped around the bars but technically not locked. I don;t think any of the emergency doors were opened and in the dark with the smoke, heat and panic it would be understandable if people trying to get out missed it.

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

Is the scene of the tragedy still a business park with Lidl and Mister price as anchor? Didn't he try to open a pub or did it actually open?

ohnonotgmail

Ellison Attractive Trend wrote: »

Is the scene of the tragedy still a business park with Lidl and Mister price as anchor? Didn't he try to open a pub or did it actually open?

The site was sold last year. Still a lidl there as far as I know. they were trying to build houses on it at one point.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-property-firm-bought-stardust-site-on-behalf-of-foreign-investors-group-1.4483022

Sleeper12

ohnonotgmail wrote:

raheny not clontarf but yeah people did try to sneak in. I never did of course but usually because I was too pissed to climb walls. and eric has never hid his disdain for poor people.

The Grove was in Clontarf for the first 8 years of its life. It eventually moved to St Paul's in Raheny but it originated in Clontarf

Sleeper12

Ellison Attractive Trend wrote:

What is the story re the exits, were they locked? The report says some appeared locked due to chaine being wrapped around them but weren't and opened when pushed on if I am reading it right?

This was common practice back then in nightclubs, dance halls and even cinemas. I'm not saying it was the right thing to do but it was the norm.

The Stardust tragedy helped transform our fire regulations. For example the unstairs function room in the Raheny Inn was transformed into a snooker hall because the maximum number of people per fire exit was reduced