The Wednesday Night War *Spoilers for AEW and NXT*

AEW should start getting around a million viewers a week if NXT does move.

RollieFingers

You'd think NXT would have a better chance up against IMPACT and Dark.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

You'd think NXT would have a better chance up against IMPACT and Dark.

Let the Tuesday Night Wars begin.

In the end, the Wednesday Night War was a mauling. There'll be books written about how WWE's "hip young brand" never attracted young viewers.

The White Wolf

The "war" coincided with NXT's possibly worst year on record but still they can only blame themselves for positioning themselves into a fight.

I would actually call this decision ill timed given NXT are finally coming out of a tough transitional period but how and ever.

LineOfBeauty

The White Wolf wrote: »

The "war" coincided with NXT's possibly worst year on record but still they can only blame themselves for positioning themselves into a fight.

I would actually call this decision ill timed given NXT are finally coming out of a tough transitional period but how and ever.

True, and I don't think it's a coincidence that NXT's worst year on record coincided with the indie scene completely drying up either.

There's so many things you could talk about because it is such an interesting thing, but from Week 1 of the war one of the most stark things from the moment you started watching the shows was the difference in atmosphere. Not necessarily atmosphere generated by fans, or how they both coped with the pandemic, but the atmosphere of both shows. One felt fresh, new and exciting and the other felt like the 6th hour of main roster WWE. Pitched against the dynamic new show, the WWE weekly TV format just felt stale and lifeless, and all the things it purported to be (young, exciting) it just wasn't. The matches were still good, but the staleness of the television approach of the company is what dragged it down.

Blue_Dabadee

I have always felt NXT weekly show was never important to watch in order to watch NXT takeover events.

The only reason why I watched NXT weekly show was because it was on network and used to be 1 hour show.

It was quite similar to deal like NWA Powerr were it was easy show to watch and access.

Ever since they put time delay on network and made it two hour show i just lost interested in keeping up to date with brand.

The White Wolf

I was never a mad fan of NXT anyway because it was mostly a smoke and mirrors job; it gave the vibe of being all about the next generation, but eventually the truth was exposed once someone was moved to the main roster.

There's a question now over what the likes of Adam Cole will do and that to me is AEW's single greatest contribution to the business over the last 18 months or so; there's no longer that cloud of doom thinking about what will happen to someone once they move up to the main roster.

RollieFingers

Has to be a positive for both if it's true that NXT have accepted defeat.

They should get good numbers on their own night and hopefully AEW can get over the million viewers.

Agent Coulson

I wonder is this a WWE decision or there real paymasters NBC who are paying them billions for NXT, RAW & The Network.

I know there's a few weeks left but how many nights did NXT win in the end?

LineOfBeauty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know there's a few weeks left but how many nights did NXT win in the end?

Where it really mattered, the demo, it finished up at 68-1 in AEW's favour. It was never even close.

Agent Coulson

Deleted User wrote: »

I know there's a few weeks left but how many nights did NXT win in the end?

Since they went head to head in October 2019 NXT won the over all ratings 9 times with one draw AEW won the rest.

The only time they won the 18 - 49 demo which is all the Networks care about was in December 2019.

OneEightSeven

This is great news for AEW and terrible news for WWE. I reckon this will trigger a decline in WWE's TV revenue. Dynamite will boost 200-300k more viewers unopposed and Raw is losing about the same annually. At their current trajectory, Raw and Dynamite should reach parity in about 2-3 years and NBCUniversal will start wondering why they're paying $265m a year for Raw when TNT is paying $45m for Dynamite.

I hope NXT and Smackdown eventually get cancelled from TV. They done a WCW and saturated the market with nonsensical storyline telling. WWE was at its peak in 1997/1998 when they were writing just 2 hours of television a week.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wonder is this a WWE decision or there real paymasters NBC who are paying them billions for NXT, RAW & The Network.

NBCSN is shutting down and Wednesday is hockey night, so I'd say it's NBCUniversal's call.

JP Liz V1

The White Wolf wrote: »

The "war" coincided with NXT's possibly worst year on record but still they can only blame themselves for positioning themselves into a fight.

I would actually call this decision ill timed given NXT are finally coming out of a tough transitional period but how and ever.

Surely Adam Pearce taking charge will be a ratings winner he is everywhere

J. Marston

OneEightSeven wrote: »

This is great news for AEW and terrible news for WWE. I reckon this will trigger a decline in WWE's TV revenue. Dynamite will boost 200-300k more viewers unopposed and Raw is losing about the same annually. At their current trajectory, Raw and Dynamite should reach parity in about 23 years and NBCUniversal will start wondering why they're paying $265m a year for Raw when TNT is paying $45m for Dynamite.

I hope NXT and Smackdown eventually get cancelled from TV. They done a WCW and saturated the market with nonsensical storyline telling. WWE was at its peak in 1997/1998 when they were writing just 2 hours of television a week.

NBCSN is shutting down and Wednesday is hockey night, so I'd say it's NBCUniversal's call.

Fixed that.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

Fixed that.

Very self important and condescending attitude that to edit someone else's post.

Sirsok

Speaking off the war , I know WWE liked to say NXT was a third brand , but realistically it was viewed as the Third tier minor leagues.

I mean since the change to TV they had "call ups" for some of their major stars they invested alot of TV time to

Matt Riddle
Keith Lee
Belair
T-Bar
Yim

Recently
Priest and Ripley

Now in that time we got Balor, McAfee and Kross. But the perception of this brand is still as a developmental is the win for AEW that big?

Now it may have be bad since TV, I am only catching the ppvs and reading up on it these days.

LineOfBeauty

Sirsok wrote: »

Speaking off the war , I know WWE liked to say NXT was a third brand , but realistically it was viewed as the Third tier minor leagues.

I mean since the change to TV they had "call ups" for some of their major stars they invested alot of TV time to

Matt Riddle
Keith Lee
Belair
T-Bar
Yim

Recently
Priest and Ripley

Now in that time we got Balor, McAfee and Kross. But the perception of this brand is still as a developmental is the win for AEW that big?

Now it may have be bad since TV, I am only catching the ppvs and reading up on it these days.

It is. It's tough to get into that mindset now, but when they both launched on network TV NXT was considered cool and young, it had the WWE machine behind it and years to establish a fan base. All you need do is go to the opening pages of this thread and you'll see some big claims that have been proven completely incorrect.

You look at the original TNT expectations for the AEW show, they've smashed those. In so many ways, it's been a big victory.

Sirsok

I think AEW feels that fresher then NXT when I watch as it has an unpredictability about it.

They have spurned thru a good few debuts in the pandemic era, Hardy, Cage, Starks, Lee , Sting, Big Show and now another name incoming.

While NXT has they stars plucked away, if on the writing team it must feel like one step forward two steps back. Especially knowing they won't do anything on WWE TV.

Bring back Alesiter Black, Richochet , Viking Raiders , Gable .... all treated as a joke when they moved up. Why should fans really care after those disasters.

Now I'm not saying this about all of NXT call ups, WWE is littered with ones that are taken seriously, but recently there has been a few main roster misses

Agent Coulson

Disney/ESPN just bought the NHL rights out from under the noses of NBC Universal so NXT might not have to move now.

LineOfBeauty

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Disney/ESPN just bought the NHL rights out from under the noses of NBC Universal so NXT might not have to move now.

Ye, there's still a 2nd NHL package up for grabs so we'll see. Good news for Vince, bad news for NXT as a whole.

https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/1377716535687450624?s=19

Crap numbers for both. Next week is the last week for both shows being on the same night.

I see a lot of people on twitter wondering how could AEW do such a bad rating when it was a very good show. I will say this, even though I really enjoyed the show, this was the least interested I was (before the show) in a Dynamite in a long time so I'm not surprised with the rating tbh.

Agent Coulson

HHH hasn't taken the loss and move away from Wednesday well that's my take from the reading of the speech he gave talent.


Even if he didn't use that one word.

ThePott

Deleted User wrote: »

I see a lot of people on twitter wondering how could AEW do such a bad rating when it was a very good show. I will say this, even though I really enjoyed the show, this was the least interested I was (before the show) in a Dynamite in a long time so I'm not surprised with the rating tbh.

I think AEW is a bit of a bubble, the people going crazy for it smarks but how much it will appeal to those outside of that bubble or casual fans is still in question.

That's not a knock, the can certainly survive on that but whether they can grow is still unclear. Whatever way you slice it that number isn't great for them, their numbers post Revolution haven't been glowing in general.

Be interesting to see how they do without NXT on Wednesdays consistently.

I'm sure people might shout demos and all that and there's plenty of excuses (some valid) but I think some shake-ups are needed to move the needle as it were.

J. Marston

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/1377716535687450624?s=19

Crap numbers for both. Next week is the last week for both shows being on the same night.

I see a lot of people on twitter wondering how could AEW do such a bad rating when it was a very good show. I will say this, even though I really enjoyed the show, this was the least interested I was (before the show) in a Dynamite in a long time so I'm not surprised with the rating tbh.

People in an echo chamber are saying it was a good show.

A solid Christian match. I see him getting a lot of praise for his selling, understandable as AEW fans must not be used to seeing that stuff.

The Inner Circle/Pinnacle stuff was just another backstage brawl.

Do they actually think people care about QT Marshall and a bunch of trainees?

People don't.

Also, They're quickly killing any shock factor associated with blood. Britt Baker created a great visual a few weeks ago but having two people in two different segments busted open this week just normalises it for people.

The main event was a joke. Mid-card guys who have been booked like shíte for the last 6 months doing a comedy match. You think that's gonna get people watching?

No-one gives a toss about Kenny Omega. That may be hard for the purists to hear but it's the truth. The guy can barely make a dent when he appears on Impact.

AEW hardcores just don't live in the real world, that's why they're baffled when these "amazing" shows don't actually attract viewers. Reddit/Twitter going crazy for the "Forbidden Door" and Kenta while reality shows Kenta's match was the least-watched thing on that show (Unsurprisingly, AEW's own RKO, Ratings Killer Omega, was in that match too). Christian will make a difference? Three weeks of Christian, three weeks of 700k.

Cargill's vignette was arguably the best thing on the show. Made her look like a star.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

It'll be more of a brief skirmish than a war. NXT will wipe the floor with AEW on every level.

Quick reminder for anyone who forgot.

https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/1380252027792490496?s=19

LineOfBeauty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/1380252027792490496?s=19

Tough ratings to decipher given that you'd assume a fair chunk of people were watching NXT on Peacock, but I thought NXT would be much closer, or maybe even win in the demo.

Agent Coulson

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Tough ratings to decipher given that you'd assume a fair chunk of people were watching NXT on Peacock, but I thought NXT would be much closer, or maybe even win in the demo.

No one wants to take into account how many watch AEW on FiteTV in the States over the last 18 months either a sub on FiteTV would be a lot cheaper for a lot of fans than paying for cable TV.

ThePott

Am I wrong or is AEW not on Fite TV in the US? I thought Fite TV was only international.

Agent Coulson

Oh you might be right just my FiteTV account is was set up in the States and I pay in dollars and watch AEW on it.

I don’t use a VPN to watch it so maybe it’s like Netflix then whatever region you are in you get shown that.

ThePott

Yeah I think it is possible to watch with a VPN if you're in America so you're right there.
Bryan Alvarez has said not a significant amount watched through Peacock but I'd be curious how many did.
Also curious how he knows considering streamers don't really give out their viewing data but that's another story.

Agent Coulson

It’s probably a safe bet with Peacock to say not many watched on it, it has been a disaster with take up on subs since it started and is losing billions.

ThePott

Well to be fair all of these streaming services are losing billions especially one as recent as Peacock. Their subscriber count is actually quite good, ahead of expectations at least. There's plenty of round for them to make up but they're not a write-off yet certainly.

Agent Coulson

The subscriber up take is ok on the free service the paid service not so much.

ThePott

I haven't seen any evidence to prove or disprove that. Certainly we can't tell how much of their 30 million plus sign-ups are free or paid though. Again though with a streaming service that has just launched like Peacock their first year (at the very least) is about brand recognition.

It's much more prominent in the App charts recently suggesting people are checking it out. They don't have the brand recognition of a Disney+ or HBO Max. Right now they need to build the brand before they can worry about a massive amount of subscribers jumping aboard and paying.

Agent Coulson

They are just working the numbers in the same Vince did with the Network saying total subscribers and not saying how many used the free trial etc.

NBCUniversal’s Peacock streaming service has signed up 33 million subscribers, Comcast announced during the company’s earnings report for the fourth quarter of 2020.

There are several caveats to that statistic: Comcast did not clarify how many of those sign-ups were paid subscribers, and it is unclear how many users have actively used the service after signing up. Peacock has a free, ad-supported subscription tier, as well as $4.99 and $9.99 ad-free subscription options that offer more content. Comcast stated that Peacock generated $100 million in revenue in Q4 but added that Peacock is estimated to post $2 billion in losses in 2020 and 2021.

Regardless, Peacock’s sign-ups, which were announced six months after the streaming service’s national rollout, indicate continued demand for streaming platforms in a market that’s only growing more crowded.

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/01/peacock-subscribers-2021-beats-expectations-1234612695/

ThePott

There are several caveats to that statistic: Comcast did not clarify how many of those sign-ups were paid subscribers, and it is unclear how many users have actively used the service after signing up.

This is what I'm saying. We don't know, of course that's very deliberate but my point is we can't jump to the conclusion that subscribers are all flocking to the free tier and no one is paying, we have nothing to suggest that.

Part of the subscribers will also have Peacock through their TV Package. We just don't know and likely won't anytime soon. Which is why I'm dubious of Alvarez touting numbers. People who work in the entertainment industry haven't been able to find a consistent metric with how to measure viewers on streaming service but Alvarez has it sorted in 24 hours, I'm skeptical.

Again you could be right but Peacock working at a loss is nothing unexpected and their numbers are not bad at all. If we want to talk failure look to Apple TV+ or Paramount+.

Agent Coulson

Oh they all have disgusting debts when you look at the parent companies.


AT&T (HBO Max) has $145B.

Comcast (Peacock) has $108B.

Disney $41B

ViacomCBS (Paramount+) has $20B.

Netflix has $15B

ThePott

For sure, these things are investments for the future. That's why I think it's premature to see Peacock as failing.
It's not a Quibi or an outlier, It's got the might of Comcast behind it, it's gonna be here for a while and would be shocked as time goes on if it doesn't succeed.

The White Wolf

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Oh they all have disgusting debts when you look at the parent companies.


AT&T (HBO Max) has $145B.

Comcast (Peacock) has $108B.

Disney $41B

ViacomCBS (Paramount+) has $20B.

Netflix has $15B

Cripes, in a warped world I would of said Netflix are managing things better than the others but then again they are charging me 18 euro for absolute ****e.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

No one wants to take into account how many watch AEW on FiteTV in the States over the last 18 months either a sub on FiteTV would be a lot cheaper for a lot of fans than paying for cable TV.

Dynamite isn't on FiteTV in the states.

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/WrestlingInc/status/1389986647727513602

riffmongous

^^ Easier to do when you have a million factions though

Shiminay

riffmongous wrote: »

^^ Easier to do when you have a million factions though

It's almost like they planned it... Not like there's a lack of supreme talent in WWE to build something similar